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Wood Shed Idea

Started by Matt Trav, October 03, 2013, 05:27:21 PM

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Matt Trav

I just finished modeling a timber frame wood shed in SketchUp that I hope to build in my back yard.  I have built two small frames a few years ago thanks to Jack Sobon's books and the information on this forum, but this is my first time using SketchUp.  I also hope to use the TF Rubies from Clark Bremer to create shop drawings of each timber.  I posted a couple screen shots of my design below and welcome any ideas about it.

One concern I have is that the three braces joining the front post may be weakening the frame too much.   The posts and ties are 7"x7", braces stock is 6" x 2-7/8" (to account for shrinkage and milling tolerance of a 3"), top plates are 7" x 10", sill and floor joists are 7" x 6", rafters are 6" x 6".  The base is 10'10" long by 8' deep and the roof is 12' long by 12'2" deep.  Unfortunately I am trying to design a frame to use up the white pine timbers I cut before I understood square rule layout (because I read another book prior to Jack's :-X).             

Thanks


  



 

razor

Hi Matt
Those are beefy timbers in that tiny frame.  Two opposing braces on the bottom side of the tie beams would do the trick for you and separate the joinery at the same time. The top brace you have there can be in tension at times. We don't want that  :o

Matt Trav

Thanks razor I put those braces in correctly.   


grweldon

I'm not a TF designer by any means.  I am an Engineer (not structural) so I do have a bit of common sense backed up by knowledge and experience.

It would seem to me that on the front overhang you would want the braces to sit under the beam supporting the overhang.  The way you have it now, all of the weight of the overhang appears to be supported by the tennons that will connect the horizontal member of the front brace which would be much weaker (structurally unsafe?  I don't know) than if the brace were directly under the beam that supports the overhang.

I know that traditionally braces are usually 45° but I would also think that the way you have the overhang support braces they would tend to bend the top portion of your posts over time.  If you were to redesign the brace where it would be closer to a horizontal beam on the post it would not have a tendency to do this.  I'm thinking move the side horizontal members up to just under the shorter roof wall beam.  (Jim, I apolgize for not using the correct TF terminology, I guess this piece would be considered a "plate"?)

Just my conclusions.  If I'm wrong the much more experienced people will correct me or make more appropriate suggestions.  Oh, and like Razor said, very beefy timbers for such a small structure.  i would think that 6x6 and 4x4 members would be plenty strong, but, if you are going for impressions, the timbers you've used will provide that!
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Matt Trav

Here is a x-ray view of what I was thinking there.  It would be a 1" fully housed mortise and tenon.  So the weight would not be on the tenon but distributed over the housing.  I left 4" of wood beyond the brace pocket, hopefully that is enough so the brace does not relish the end of the overhang tie (if its called a tie).



Is this what you were suggesting (with exception to the lower brace pocket being below the lower tie?)  I can see it would be stronger holding up the overhang plate but I am not sure how the overhang plate could be secured to the overhang tie using traditional joinery.  Wouldn't the overhang plate have a tendency to roll over?



This whole structure looks like a lot of joinery for its size.  I guess it will test my resolve for the bigger structure I really want to build. 

razor

If I was doing the same shed I would simply scale down the overhang plate a tad and secure it to the jetty beams with 10" GRK's. Probably cut a housing in the plate to make it more timber framish. 

grweldon

Matt,

Your revised example is exactly what I was envisioning.  The addition of a wooden peg through the top (or bottom) extending in to the horizontal member of the brace would be sufficient to keep the beam from rolling.  I wouldn't envision the beam rolling at all, even without the peg.  The suggestion of screws by Razor is an excellent idea.

The solution you originally envisioned (shown in x-ray) would probably be sufficient but it would be nice if Jim would chime in to give an opinion.  I don't think things are typically done that way...

Good luck.  We need pics when you start!

Glen
My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

witterbound

If you lower those braces, which make sense to me, taller folks might hit their heads.  Have you looked at the prentice roof thread.  Seems like the front of your shed is very similar.

Satamax

Matt, two ideas.

Instead of braces and an horizontal beam, you could do a St Andrews cross. That looks cool to me!

Or, lengthen the brace which holds the overhang's plate, down to the opposite post, like on French "colombage" This is usually done with lap joints tho. If you don't mind, post your sketchup file here, I'll modify it, to show you what I mean.
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Jim_Rogers

The only wood shed design I have seen is in the 14 plans book sold by the guild.

It was drawn by Will Beemer of Heartwood school as it was on of the school's class projects back in 05.

It shows the short rafter plate being above the tie beam which is continuous from back wall to front plate.

If it was me, I do it the second way shown with the plate over the supporting beams.

Jim Rogers
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Matt Trav

Thanks for the advice.  Here is a picture of frame after making the changes.  I also made the gable end flush with the rafters so it can be easily sided and there will be more interior space.  With the current design I can't make the tie beam continuous from the back wall to the front plate.  I'd be interested to see how a St Andrews Cross or colombage would incorporate.  Think I could eliminate some rafters, they are 2' on center? 


Satamax

Allez, here you go.

After drawing it, the "colombage" type brace doesn't blend in well. Tho, having two little "tie beam stubs"at different levels could make it look better. With this brace,lapped onto the outside post thought it would be cool to skip the "console" (i know you use this word in english, but may be not in this case) and hold the plate with the brace and rafters.



The st andrews cross is simple and self explanatory. And i have done it the full thickness of the post, tho, being a pair of braces, it would look better thinner. 



I didn't pay attention to the joints in either cases.



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Matt Trav

Thanks for drawing out those options Satamax.  They both have a very unique look to them.  I like the St. Andrews Cross more because I am not sure if the colombage resists all the forces correctly. 

rmack

I keep looking at that woodshed because it's kind of a neat idea and I am looking for beginner projects for myself, but I keep coming to the same conclusion, what you are doing seems to be a hybrid sort of design. rather than a bent at each end, you are trying to incorporate a dimension lumber style arrangement of trusses closely spaced. It looks good, but are all those rafters really necessary?

what do you intend to use for roof decking? could you make some kind of decking by milling some of those 6x6's down to 2 15/16 x6?

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