Need a little advice on wood turning

[Gipper]

Actually, need a lot of advice, but for now a little to help get me started will do!  ;D  I've done a little turning, years ago, but without any formal training. Then the lathe headstock messed up and other things seemed to be more pressing at the time, so I put the lathe aside and used it maybe twice since then, with a home engineered piece for the headstock. (Dangerous)  Tried finding a piece, but it's a craftsman, over 20 years old, so they quit handling parts at the place of purchase.

I have my own sawmill with access to a wide variety of wood.  Been doing a lot of custom sawing for last 5 years and it seems to be continuing to grow.  However, my age and health is demanding I slow down, but my love for wood won't let me quit completely.  I enjoyed the little amount that I did years ago, and it certainly is not as demanding physically as sawing.  As evidenced by some pictures already on this site, beautiful projects can be produced on the lathe. 

Now my questions.  I've been looking at the mini and/or midi lathes, with bed extensions.  My primary objective to begin with will be pens, bowls, ornaments, etc., with expansion later into spindles and chair and table legs.  I,ve looked at the Delta, Jet, Rikon and a couple other lesser known brands.  Another brand that has impressed me is the Penn State Industries Turncrafter Series.  They seem to be well stocked on their accessory items also.  Does anyone out there know anything about their mini-lathes?  In looking at another forum on woodturning (hope one can get forgiveness for that  :D), it seemed the majority of opinions was that varible speed wasn't necessary with a mini lathe.  What's the opinions of the folks on this site for the need for varible speed? One other feature I see on some I feel would be helpful is the bore thru tailstock, but only saw it on the Jet, that also included the bed extension and bore thru tailstock. 

Ultimately, I know that I'm the one having to decide.  As far as the budget is concerned, I don't want to tie up large sums (1000's) until I know it is something I could get good at, and would really enjoy.  Enjoyment I don't think will be the problem. ;D  There's a lot of experience and expertise on this forum; hopefully a few can find the time to share some of their knowledge and experiences.

Thanks, Gipper

[JimBuis]

I have two lathes in my shop, neither of which are variable speed.  Although I intend to buy a couple of minilathes to add to the shop in the next month or two and want to get them in variable speed, I don't think I'd consider that to be an absolute necessity.  However, the VS option is so cheap I don't know why you'd buy one without it.  I have found the speed changes via pulleys to be sufficient most of the time.

In my somewhat limited experience, other issues are more important than minute adjustments in speed such as tool quality or sharpness.

You'll get some more learned feedback here shortly.

IMHO,
Jim

[Furby]

You may still be able to get the part you need for your lathe.
Go to Sears website, they have online parts books and such.

[Radar67]

I started with the Jet mini lathe without the variable speed option. It only takes a minute to change the speed via the belt. I got started with pens and small bowls for a little over $300. The tool are the most important part in my opinion. High Speed Steel will hold an edge much longer than a standard tool. You don't have to spend a fortune on tools initially, but you will want to get the higher quality tools once you decide if it is something you want to do. Learning to sharpen the tools in the next hurdle. I hand sharpen on the fly with a diamond stone. A slow speed grinder or variable speed that has the capacity to use water as a cooler/lubricant is a good investment. I get all of my supplies from www.woodturningz.com (they stock everything Penn State has...cheaper). They also have a good DVD that comes with the lathe kit on pen turning and techniques. Hope this helps. I'll be glad to answer questions one on one if you need to. Welcome to the forum.

Stew

[wesdor]

I own a Jet Min Lathe.  Can't say that I'm much good at anything yet, but it is sure fun.

As Radar says, you should be able to get a good setup with a few tools for about $300.

I would add that you should find a local wood turning club.  Check the American Association of Woodturners   AAW  for the club nearest you.  Clubs offer a lot of expertise and usually do it for free or very cheap.  Finding a good club will save you money in knowing what to purchase as well as how to get better faster.

Good luck.

[metalspinner]

Gipper,
I just put my Delta Midi out of service yesterday.  The Woodcraft store replaced their Jet's last year with the Ricon.  So I have firsthand experience with all three that you mentioned.

The Delta is a little easier to change the pulley belts.  The door is up front, so easier access.  This may seem like a trivial point, but the knobs, handles, and belt on the Delta are much more cheaply manufactered than on the Jet and Ricon.  The money I spent on those replacement parts over the past five years would have gotten me an $800 machine. :

The Jet's held up well in the classroom considering the amount of abuse beginning turner's doled out on them. they also have a bit more quill travel than the Delta, which is a big bonus in my book. The electronic variable speed is not an option I would recommend on the midi lathe.  Those fail often and need to be replaced.  The store stopped carrying them for that reason.

The Ricon's are holding up really well.  They are a bit stouter than the other two, but my long term judgement is still undecided on them.

If I were you, I would look for a used machine to get your feet wet, then put my money into a larger machine.  The midi lathes really start to fall short with heavy chunks of wood.  There life expectancy is not long with moderate to regular usage.  For small items like pens and ornaments these machines excel and will quickly pay for themselves.

If you can find replacement parts for your Craftsman, that would be ideal.  After you decide that you love it and want to upgrade, you won't have additional $$$ tied up.

[Don_Papenburg]

Yep rebuild the sears.  or get a regular size lathe if you want to turn furature legs and other long turnings.  I can turn a pen on my 12" x144" but I could never turn a one peice porch collumn on a midi.

[Gipper]

Thanks guys, for all the advice and guidance! It's obvious a great deal of experience was speaking.  Rebuilding the Craftsman is not an option, unless I can find used parts from someone nearby getting rid of theirs.  I got on the sears website and as I suspected, the parts are no longer available.  I have some other older Craftsman tools and had tried in past to get parts for them, with no luck.  Guess we are not supposed to take care of our tools and keep them longer than 20 years, which seems to be their point to discontinue parts!

I checked the AAW website for local turning clubs.  No luck there either.  Only had one listed in the state, and it would be over a four hour drive one way.  There are some in Tennessee closer, but still not practical driving distance. 

One reason for considering a mini lathe at this time is very limited shop space.  Guess I've added too many toys over last few years. ;D  Plans for a new shop are underway at this time, and hopefully, by the time it's finished I would know whether or not I was getting good enough on the lathe, or enjoying it enough to invest in a bigger, better unit.  Looked at the old one again today thinking maybe I can make it work.  Even found an old cant hook handle I turned on it years ago and looked at some candle holders I did on it.  Decided then I will definitely get back to turning, just not sure when or with which lathe.   

Again, thanks to all for your thoughts, ideas, and advice.  I will re-read them all a few times, then think about it some more before making a final decision.

Gipper

[metalspinner]

Gipper,
What are the parts that you need? 

[Gipper]

metalspinner,

Hope I know enough about it to use correct terminology!  The spur center on the headstock messed up long ago.  I managed to use it a little after that, but was afraid of it, constantly fearing the workpiece was going to come flying off.  With my renewed interest, I have been doing a lot of reading and searching the internet, and think I might be able to solve the headstock issue.  It is a threaded spur center and the threads were not completely destroyed.  There is also an issue with the tailstock, but at this point I haven't concentrated on it enough to know what exactly it is.  Think I may have been putting too much pressure, fearing it would come out on me. 

Guess I just need to pull the thing back out of the cob webs and junk corner and see exactly what I need to do with it.  Yep, believe I'll do that.  You guys may have just saved me some coins. ;D ;D  Now if I can just find a space in the shop for it! :D

Thanks for all the help!!   Gipper

[metalspinner]

I think you will be alright.  Get some pics of what you think are the problems and we will figure them out together.

[Gipper]

metalspinner,

Thanks for the encouragement and advice.  I have looked it over real close now and remembered one of the reasons I put it aside.  The problem with the spur center can be solved - it's a 3/4 X 16 tpi and should be able to find one that will work.  However, the big problem was with the tail stock;  the cup center point, cup center and cup center ball apparantly had gotten hot and seems to have "melted" into the tail spindle.  Therefore, the wood is spinning against the tail spindle and burning into the wood.  This also caused me to remember trying, years ago, to get the parts and they were unavailable.  The wife and I both think it was about 28 years ago that I bought the lathe.  They still have the parts list and diagram on their website, but cannot order the parts.

As for posting a picture, unfortunately, I haven't mastered that process yet.  That is another one of my short term goals.  Going to try to get started on that during this bad weather we are now having.  Had so much computer problems during most of last year, barely to get on to keep up with reading, much less post anything.  I was blaming the ISP, and they were saying it was the computer.  Glad I kept my words sweet - had to eat them. ;D  Don't have any of my pics on this new computer yet.

Thanks for your help!   Gipper

[thurlow]

Gipper..........the tail spindle should be a common Jacobs taper; probably No 1; could be No 2;  available from any supplier.  Maybe it's a Morse taper;  just replaced mine; DanG if I can remember.   :

[Gipper]

Thanks thurlow!  Looked at it again tonight after letting the tip soak for two days in liquid wrench.  Still could not get the center point and cup center out of the spindle.  Going to try PB Blaster tomorrow.  If that fails, may try a large firecracker! ;D  I know the center point should come out, because I now remember it being one I had made when the original broke.  I used part of a finishing nail - just sharpened the point a little!

I'll start looking for the entire tail spindle, but it will need to have the same threads as the little hand wheel in order to give me some travel for the spindle.  If you have some spare time, the entire diagram can be seen at sears.com, tools, parts, using the model number 149.23871.

Thanks,   Gipper

[metalspinner]

Is the tail stock part your mentioning part 32 in the diagram?  Is that threaded on the right hand side, and is the point you mention the last piece to the left of part 32?  Is part 32 hollow?

Just trying to make sure we are on the same page.

[Gipper]

metalspinner,

The part labeled in the diagram as #32 is what they call the tail spindle on their parts list.  It goes through the forked yoke (#28) they have listed as the tail stock.  It is threaded all the way down and is hollow on the left end, as you face the lathe.  I believe the hollow only goes approx. only 1/2 to maybe 5/8 inch, and accepts the point, the cup center, and cup center ball.    The point (#29), is the last piece to the left of #32.  The point and the cup center (#30) are supposed to come out easily, but they are stuck tight.  I guess the years of inactivity have really let it rust.  I will let it soak for a few days while I attend to some other stuff that has come up.  Can't ever seem to get anything done without something else jumping in front of it.  ;D

Thanks,

Gipper

[beenthere]

Ya needs some of the RustReaper if it's rusted. It's a FF thing, and works real (amazingly) well.

Good luck with it. I used to have an older Craftsman lathe, and your discussion brings back some memories (some are the reasons I sold it for $10)

[old_hb]

As a turner with moderate experience and very average talent, I would strongly urge you to get a variable speed machine. It isn't a matter-as one of the replies suggested-of slight variances in speed but a matter of a considerable range of speed for both safety and good technique. If you will be doing bowl work and working on blanks, for example, you need to start at a relatively low speed- 4-600 rpm. When the blank is rounded properly and you start working on defining and shaping the object, you will want speeds ranging from 7-1200 rpm. For the best result in sanding, you might want to go higher. These are just averages and the type of wood you work on will be a factor as will the question of whether or not you're working on green or dry wood. Every turner I know has said that she/he wishes that he/she had gotten a better/bigger machine. If you'll only be working on pens and very small bowls (10" in diameter or smaller) the various mini's are fine. For larger stuff you will want a heavier, more powerful machine with a standard spindle size (m2) and either 1x8 or 1.25x8, a hollow tailstock and one whose spindle head locks for removing chucks, faceplates etc. easily. I started with a mid sized Delta (about $700) which was pretty good , though I outgrew it after about a year. I had some problems with it, but the Delta people were fantastic about sending me replacements and giving me sound advice. I think that it is a good starter machine and that the smaller Jets are good mini's. Some people love the Grizzly's and Penn State stuff, but personally I haven't had much luck with most of the things I've gotten from them. The best thing would be to find a local dealer who services whatever you buy. Anyway, good luck, HB

[turningfool]

teknatool makes a reasonably priced midi lathe as well..well made with bed extensions for as long as youd care to go..16" over the bed swing and an optional outboard set up for monster turnings up to 29" diameter..also is a variable speed 110 volt....if youd care to gander at them close up and personal ,craft supplies usa carries them as do woodcraft outlets..i own one  and it has taken everything i've thrown at it without as much as a wimper thus far ;D

[turningfool]

sd/kevjay.warming up this week about time to finish up with a few special projects huh?

[Gipper]

beenthere, I've been looking locally for the rust reaper, but apparently it is not available.  Looked at their web site and guess I will order some later.  Don't believe even it would help the problem with the old Craftsman.  Actually, after looking more closely, and trying to free up the stuck part, not sure if it even has the live bearing.  I think it just had the pin and the workpiece turned against the tailpiece.

old_hb, I looked at the larger, heavier machines, and would love to go that route.  However, at this time, shop space will not permit.  Even with a mini lathe, I will have to put it away when not in use.  A new shop is planned, hopefully within two years I will have it finished.  However, as I approach this next birthday, I keep reminding myself not to get too optimistic and make too many extremely long, range plans  :(  I got the old Craftsman running using a "band-aid" approach rather than a permanent fix, and unless the learning curve improves drastically, I probably won't need to invest a great deal more than a mini lathe costs.  ;D  As of now, if I decide to go with variable speed, it will be the Jet.  Without the variable speed it will be the Rikon.  I could not find the Rikon with variable speed.  The PSI Turncrafter Pro VS is not completely ruled out, but with VS it is almost same price as Jet.  They all look about the same, weigh about the same and basically the same features.  The Rikon has a little more swing over bed and accepts multiple extensions if desired.  There is no local dealer that carries either of them.  Woodcraft has the Rikon mini, or Jet standard size and I can drive there and back in one day, but makes a long day.  One store is nearly three hours, the other is a little over three hours.

turningfool, I looked at the teknatool website.  Good looking machine, but I believe way more than I need, espeically now.  Doubt that I could ever get good enough to need the outboard set up for the large turnings.  I'm looking to do mostly pens, ornaments, short spindles, etc. 

Thanks to all of you for your input!        Gipper

[beenthere]

Gipper
You may be pleasantly surprised what the Rust Reaper will do. I know I was, when getting bolts and nuts loose on a '64 Deere lawn tractor, knowing they hadn't been turned since put in new at the Horicon factory. If you've found the website, that is where you can get it in a small quantity that will give you a good idea what it can accomplish. I know, I've tried the Kroil (and it wasn't too bad either), but the RR is much better. Glad it's been discovered. 

Good luck with the Craftsman.

[Burlkraft]

RR works pretty good on Peterson blade bolts too....... ;D ;D ;D