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How high can I go with this bent's cross beam, it is key tenoned?

Started by Justin Bailey, June 07, 2015, 10:53:49 PM

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Justin Bailey

I'm building a rather large firewood shelter using mostly 6x6 and 4x6 PT wood. There are 5 bents w/ 12' post spacing, a 12ft braced cross beam connecting them. The front post is 1' taller to create a slope on the single pitched roof, and I am having trouble with how high I can put the cross beam because the longer plates that join the bents are also braced, and I would like to have the cross beam level. This means I may have to get longer braces for the front plates, and use shorter ones for the back. I want to use wedging keys I made from cumaru, and don't know how close I can go to the top of the rear post top. The three posts in the center I have made a splined dovetail joint and the end posts are just a half dovetail tenon going through a mortise in the plate, secured with a wedge. There will be 16' 4x6's pitched atop the plates at 4' intervals with 2x4 strapping then 16' corrugated sheet steel roof. I also will peg braces and splines w/ 3/4" locust pegs. 4x6 roof rafters will be notched to the plate and screwed w/ 8" screws.

  

  

  

  

 

Justin Bailey

The bents are 16' apart, I know the 6x6 is marginal to say the least. I will try to rely on the bracing and install bow up, the posts will receive several hundred pounds alone w/o rain soaked snow so, this may be playing w/ disaster, but I'm willing to risk it, I wanted the look of solid wood, not a bunch of screwed  together 2x8's or 10"ers. ha. sorry for the crude drawing, and yeah, I got the 'keyed spline tenon' joint from the picture of a bed I saw.

Justin Bailey

I was hoping to make all my braces 38" but this will interfere w/ where they meet, I already cut all my 4x6x8' exactly in half, and now I regret it, should have cut them 44/52 or something. If I can get the beam up high enough on the post, maybe the front post's plate braces will not interfere. Thanks for reading. I may still have to buy some other longer 4x6's like 10'ers, and cut them in half just for the plate braces and I guess they could be longer anyway to help w/ the overkill span where I am attempting to use an underkill dimension lumber. I know you're only supposed to go up to 12' with 6x6, eh, thought what the heck. We'll see. :)

Justin Bailey

So my question, restated is 'Is there a general rule for how close to the top of a load bearing post that has a plate junction, an intersecting member w/ knee braces can be supported by a pegged spline tenon such as the one I described' (shown in the bed picture), I am guessing in relation to the shear strength of pressure treated southern yellow pine. I realize nor expect any answer from the former sufficiency of information given that anyone has a clear idea of what I am asking.

Like with a 6x6 member, a post that has a plate resting on it, with either a spline & dovetail assembly to join two plates on a single post or a simple wedged or vertical key half dovetail through tenon/mortise for a plate that continues past the post, as at the end of my simple structure, is there anyone with any profound insight regarding if I can have the bent's horizontal connecting member, within (given 5.5 x 5.5 actual) post size, 3,4,5,6,7,8 etc. inches from the plate resting on the post, given that my cumaru spline will be cantilevered across and driven through a mortise 3.5 x 1.5 inches, with a 1/2" over 5.5" wedge shape, with the cross beam resting dadoed 2-7/8" to fit onto the spline, and the spline protruding 7" into the end of that cross beam. Anyone? Here is another couple of pics of the tops of my posts I am working with.
   

Jim_Rogers

 

 

I was told that there should be at least 8" between the tie beam and the plate.

Does this answer your question?

Did you remove the bed picture?
You need to read and follow forum rules on posting pictures if you haven't read them already.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Justin Bailey

Thank you, I must have removed the bed picture from my gallery by mistake.  It sort of answers my question, I have a spline shape that has a head on it and may add some splitting resistance, so I have that to perhaps consider.

Justin Bailey

It is also a single sloped roof, not a large outward thrust there on the plate, Jim

Justin Bailey


Justin Bailey

I am only having trouble making bracing hold out to intersect between one-another you understand.

Justin Bailey

Does anyone have a forum rules link? Please bear with it, I am not sure what I have done wrong.

Justin Bailey

I wasn't sure how to upload pictures into a post, so I have accidentally deleted them from my gallery, but I have now restored all 10 pics to my gallery so far. Is that in accordance with the rules?

witterbound

I don't know of any rules you've broken.  I had trouble figuring out your question.  Once you clarified it, I just didn't have a clue what the answer was.  My hunch that's the reason for the lack of responses.

WmFritz

Quote from: Justin Bailey on June 09, 2015, 11:01:02 PM
Does anyone have a forum rules link? Please bear with it, I am not sure what I have done wrong.

Justin, the Forum rules link is at the bottom of the page.
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

Justin Bailey


Justin Bailey

Well it's kind of a odd application, single slope roof over a series of plates, sitting on bents that I am using in an unusual way to join 'tie beams' into the posts, and the post are 1' different in height, also the whole thing sits on a 2 degree slope lengthwise, lay-of-land, so all my plate braces are different on the one side of the posts vs. the other.  I just might have to get longer bracing, and some shorter, because now it seems, they're not going to all be able to be 'around' 38"...even if I theoretically have my tie beam right up to the bottom of my plate joints.

Justin Bailey

So by restoring my gallery, have I restored this thread, or are the picture links broken? Everything looks OK to me, but I don't know how everyone else sees it.

Justin Bailey

OK, so I have modified my use of H-e double hockey sticks word a few posts ago to 'heck', my apologies.

PC-Urban-Sawyer

Quote from: Justin Bailey on June 09, 2015, 11:31:15 PM
so by restoring my gallery, have I restored this thread, or are the picture links broken? Everything looks OK to me, but I don't know how everyone else sees it.

Justin,

First of all, welcome to the Forestry Forum.

It does take a little getting used to the rules but the ones regarding pictures are to avoid the dreaded "X" which appears if a picture is referenced but can't be found...

You got almost all of them back. It looks to me like the only one missing is the first one on the first post on this thread. The info for the missing picture says it is https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/40041/WIN_20150607_221514.JPG

If you can't fix it any other way you can always edit the post and delete the reference.

Again, welcome to the Forestry Forum. And remember that "DanG" is both the official cuss word of the forum and the name of one of the our favorite members (I was trying to say he was a member for a long time but it kept coming out like I was trying to say he was old and @DanG I would NEVER say that!  :D :D ;D ;D )

Herb

Justin Bailey

I think now, I will just run my bents' tie beams at the same 1:12 angle that the roof will have, staying down at least 7" from the top of the post top/plate joint edge. This way, I can use relatively similar length bracing, or at least use my 48" lengths of wood of which I can make up to 44" long bracing on the obtuse angles, instead of having to buy longer and waste what I already have. Plus I can walk under the tie beam easily when handling firewood under the structure. It will be the strongest that way, too because I will have sufficient room on the post between perpendicular brace mortises. Sound good?

Carpenter

If I'm understanding your question.  You'll have a post and a crossbeam near the top as in the picture that Jim Rogers posted.  However instead of that crossbeam being mortice and tennoned with a peg it will be splined with the spline extending clear through the post.  The spline that you've pictured also has a head on it, so the spline won't be able to be pulled through the post unless the head breaks.  The spline will be pegged to the crossbeam instead of the post, roof spreading will put tension on those pegs, but the tension will be oriented with the long grain of the cross beam, where as in the example of the failure the tension was across the long grain.  As you are pulling clear through the post and changing some of the tension into compression on the back side of the post, I don't think it could possibly split the post.  I'm not an engineer, but in this scenario, I don't see how lowering the cross beams is going to take any pressure off of the system.  I do think that if you are going to put an outside wall on this frame, it will be a little challenging to work around the head of the spline. 

Justin Bailey

Thanks for the input, There won't be any walls in this structure, it's just a 'fancy' way of eliminating tarps over some firewood piles. The spline still will wedge into the post, and having it too close to the top of the post could be weak. I am however going to have a small housed inset letting the beam into the post an inch or so, sharing some of the load to the post itself, downward. My question, is as though having that tie joint close to the top of the post would not necessitate needing longer or unavailable with what I have, bracing, but it won't. Even if I had the beam that high, I would still need other lengths of bracing than I have, so my only strong solution is to have a sloping tie beam, and alike clearance for the adjoining plate braces on both ends of the bent. The posts again are 1 foot different heights, making plates that allow for resting the roof 4x6's at a slope. I don't really need more of a slope than that, I is only single pitch roof, and if it snows two feet and then starts to rain or something, I'll just get up on there with a shovel.  :laugh:

Justin Bailey

Here's a view of that tie beam at a 1:12 angle, and it is equidistant from both tops of the posts. Then I don't have to greatly vary my brace lengths, just do some trickier tenon shoulder angles on the bracing, I'm willing to do this.

 

beenthere

Justin
Only need to put one pic of each in your gallery. just sayin...

Can we help with the glitch that you are running into?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Justin Bailey

ha well, the 1st pic I saw had an 'x' so I re-uploaded it, now there is two?

beenthere

Quote from: Justin Bailey on June 10, 2015, 08:31:33 PM
ha well, the 1st pic I saw had an 'x' so I re-uploaded it, now there is two?
I looked at what you loaded in your gallery... that is why I made the comment and asked the ?.  Something must be confusing you. ;)  We can help if you want.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Justin Bailey

I deleted the extra copies from my gallery, and also the extra one of the drawing in the 1st post.

witterbound

So if I understand correctly, you now intend for your beam to run at n angle that is the same as your rafters.  Right?  If so, I've never seen such an angled beam, and it seems as if that would put some unique pressure on parts of your joinery.  And you're wanting to do this because your braces are too short otherwise? I don't understand this if this is the case.  Are the braces or mortises already cut?

Justin Bailey

I have cut both tenons on 10 braces 45degrees at each end, 38" long at the longest shoulders, no mortices yet, but I have also cut the remaining 16 brace pieces 48" rough, from the 8' lengths of 4x6. So the longest brace material I have would only hold out for 44" max at the long tenon shoulders.

There isn't a way to satisfy clearance to walk under the tie beam, have the beam level, and have adequate space for the plate braces to meet the posts also either in between the tie beam and it's bracing, above it, or below it; and have good material between all three mortises in the post. Three total in each post-two bent mortises, (one through spline & one brace tenon); and one plate brace tenon mortise. I guess I should have thought more about possibly varying brace lengths, like I mentioned, cut the 8' pieces to 44 and 52 or something, but it's too late for that. I have made 48" ones now.  :embarassed: I don't think it would have really looked that good anyway, and besides there is not a lot of post height to work with. The posts' shoulders are 7'6" and 6'6" only or so. Not a very tall structure at all.

So yes I want to angle the tie beam. (1:12) I will have to change the angle of one side of the already finished braces, to come off the post at 45, but connect to the angled tie. Or I may repurpose them for the also angled 2 degree plate angle, on the acute side. I can make slightly longer ones out of the 48's for the obtuse angles.

I also failed to mention, the bents are 16' (actually 186" on center) apart, and the whole structure is at 25" higher lay-of-land from one end to the other, and I have made my post footings in a straight line throughout, each about 6" higher than the other across 62' that is the total distance apart on center for the end posts.

I don't like the idea of angling the tie, but the slope is minor I feel, and at least my bracing will look uniform, not strangely different sizes. Plus the headed wedge through tenon can handle any extra tension.

beenthere

Quote from: Justin Bailey on June 10, 2015, 09:24:36 PM
I deleted the extra copies from my gallery, and also the extra one of the drawing in the 1st post.

And so doing, you deleted the one (or two) that was tied to your posts, and now have two blanks in their place.

As I said, we can help you figure this out...

A good practice to follow before posting or modifying, is to use the "Preview" button to be sure that your post is as you want it... not duplicates, and no blanks. ;)

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Justin Bailey

Ok, so do I have to look at the co-responding number in my gallery, and if it's not there add it to the post, and then delete the unknown number picture from my post.

Nevermind that, I just deleted all pics from the post, and re-added those five, from my gallery. So, does that seem to look right?

witterbound


Justin Bailey

Not sure what that is, does it involve some kind of compound bracing?  I have already made all the post tops, to be either a wedging half dovetail tenon for the four corner posts that I want to have the plate overhang the structure, or notched spline joint for the other six posts that all join two 6x6 plates, meeting over a post.  The plates consist of four 18' and four 16' 6x6's

witterbound

Google it.  You might be able to adapt your posts to, in effect, put your beam on top of them.  In your case, the beam would also be a rafter, which would give you more headroom.  Not a traditional way of doing it, but it seems like it might fit your needs.

Justin Bailey

I kind of see your thinking, but I don't want to cut into my plate to recess the other rafters, only notch the rafters. My rafters are also 16' and the metal roof sheets are also and I already have only 12' ties. I could just add a few more rafters here and there, maybe. I am still going to want to brace this tie, calling for varied angled brace tenons & shoulders and lengths.

Thanks to all, for reading or commenting, I am committed, now to a general concept, and have gone far enough that I want to remain with that spline joint shown in the 1st post. Once I get going I will crank out mortises by machine, but for tenon and shoulders, I painstakingly lay out a hand router guide and use that for sharp shoulders. I also use a table saw tenon jig, but it is sloppy because the wood has natural crowning from shrinkage, and I usually leave the lines, and hand plane and chisel down more carefully that way. Some of my power tools do that finish cutting, but some processes are just for roughing out shapes, especially with less than perfect PT wood.

Jim_Rogers

Before you ever cut another frame, post, brace or beam, work out the complete design first. What you're doing is a nightmare for me to understand.
I can't see your frame in my head.
A complete floor plan or foot print would be nice.
A sketch of the bents, walls or frame would be helpful.
Reading the glossary of terms at the top of the page may help you to use the correct terms, so we understand what you are saying.
Please take my comments as advice not criticism.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Justin Bailey

 I agree, all the different angle everything is a nightmare. It's going to have less 45's and 90's than I originally planned. I made a better drawing and also replaced the crude one from the 1st post. Rafters are not shown but will have 4' spacing. Bracing looks like 6x6, but is actually 4x6 AND actually the 16' interval is 186".

 

Justin Bailey

Making good progress on one bent, still have to do the brace mortises, but have the tenons cut. I made a 45 tenon on one end of each brace, and then clamped it onto the post against the shoulder, and marked the other end off of the cross beam. They meet both posts 28-1/2" from the beam so equal room for the plate braces. I will repeat everything for the other four bents. 


  

  

  

Justin Bailey

Here is another bent, I choose a brown solid color stain. The keys are black. I still have to drill peg holes in the crossbeam by the post and through the key. Three more bents to go. 

 

Justin Bailey

Here you see the post base 6" steel tube sleeves I had cut and drilled to accept extra length steel pins through the Simpson concealed 6x6 post bases.  Also the floating foundation blocks I formed from concrete, (Quikcrete 5000 & tinted drylock paint) w/ & w/o the post AND the 1st bent in place. 

  

  

  

 

Justin Bailey

I tried to form rivet heads on the steel pins that protrude through the bases, but now have decided to use acorn nuts, and will thread each pin enough for them and will paint them black just like the steel tubes. All the steel tubes were out of square when I received them, so I used a router and carbide burr and a guide block to re cut each end, very time consuming, but it worked all nice and square. heh heh ;)

Justin Bailey

The lip on the post base is black HDPE, but I also primered and painted them. They were squares I had ordered, then cut out the inside.  Every one is slightly different, so I use a router table and fence to trim the inside to a point that I can move it up the post, but it is still very tight and then shimmed the steel tube to be tight and slid it on as well.  Moisture has swelled the wood so the steel is extra tight on the posts. It all makes for a really attractive base, I think.

Chilterns

Hi Justin,

Though I admire the precision with which you are endeavouring to undertake this task I think that the post bottoms probably now have a life expectancy of 8 - 10 years before they completely rot out. Enclosing timbers within a metal casing prevents water ingress from rapidly drying out and so provides an ideal environment for wood rot to develop.

Chilterns

Justin Bailey

Quote from: Chilterns on July 28, 2015, 03:29:10 AM
Hi Justin,

Though I admire the precision with which you are endeavouring to undertake this task I think that the post bottoms probably now have a life expectancy of 8 - 10 years before they completely rot out. Enclosing timbers within a metal casing prevents water ingress from rapidly drying out and so provides an ideal environment for wood rot to develop.

Chilterns

I took some measures for this, I bought a black flashing cement in a caulk tube, that I can run a bead around the base and also around the top of the plastic lip to try to seal it, the concrete blocks are drylock painted, which I am hoping will act as a moisture barrier and there are 1" stand off spacers as part of the simpson base, also, the wood I have stained all the way around and with a thick coat on the bottoms.  ;D  The water swelling was mostly noted, when I had test fitted the 1st bent in place w/o any finish on anything and left them out for 3 weeks when they periodically got rained on.  :-\   The roof will overhang 24", but rain and snow can still contact the base area, I hope there is a longer lifespan than 10 years! I guess am going to have to find out the hard way  :embarassed:  Did I fail to mention the post are 'ground contact' rated pressure treated? I hope that would mean a lot, I don't know.  The black paint I used is marine anti-fouling and has high amounts of copper and I primed and painted the steel inside and out.  I'm perhaps foolhardily committed to an ailing design.  ??? I have a moisture meter, most of the weather exposed things I test around seem to say around 12-15 percent. I hope the bottoms find this constant range and stay there.  Thank you for your insight I will keep that in mind over the next decade.

Justin Bailey

I want to throw this out there, my high school shop teacher told me that in colonial times, or before metal or ceramic pipe elbows and such, some buried waste water parts were made out of wood, maybe walnut, white oak, or locust, and he also said that it isn't the moisture that rotted the wood, it was the sequential drying, wetting process, that rotted wood, and that if wood stays wet, as in buried in the ground, it will not rot rapidly.  :-\ So maybe in slowing the rapid damping and drying they will be OK, not sure how this applies to my situation, just a thought. Any second opinions from anyone?

beenthere

Buried, and wet with no oxygen may have saved the buried pipe from rotting away.

But wet, with oxygen above ground.. and some warmth.. good for the decay organisms to feed away.

The post sitting top the metal bracket bolted to the concrete pad would have remained pretty dry. Adding the metal container around it will not let the wood stay very dry.. but you may get more than 10 years.

Future efforts, I'd suggest leaving off the metal surround and let the posts sit more in the open.
The overhang will help, but not so much. Trying to seal out any water entering the metal cup will be tough to accomplish. Just food for your thoughts in the future.
Your construction certainly looks great. smiley_thumbsup
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Justin Bailey

Perhaps I could have sat the ends of the posts in a shallow bucket of some kind of oil for a week or two, prior to deciding on staining the bottom, or just did that instead of the stain.

Justin Bailey

Thanks for the compliments. Here's the second bent, had this up 5 days ago. This is the opposite end, 62' apart from the 1st one shown earlier. I could have smothered the end in asphalt prior to pushing on the tubes also, was thinking I still could do something like that before the plates go on.   

 

Justin Bailey

Here is the third one, and showing how I used flashing cement around the bases sealing the gap. The water really has no way to run down in there now.

  

  

 

Justin Bailey

Bent #4 is almost ready to install, but here are some various part shots, including the plastic trim pieces that I have only just primed, the steel base pieces that I had to shim, had used some Ipe scrap, the pins that I threaded and sprayed with galvanizing, the detailed look at the post/key spline-to-crossbeam joint of the bent, and some other brace tenon views. I went with 1-3/4" tenons, but am going to use 1-1/2 for the post-to-plate bracing that I have to through-mortise the post for braces directly opposite each other on each side. ;D

  

  

  

  

  

  

 
I don't know what benefit staining all the inside of the joints is and so on, maybe help restrict movement, or maybe I just felt like embellishing those areas or hide flaws. I have used a bondo-like wood filler in certain areas and even went to the trouble of making plugs on the lathe for three kind of sizable knot holes in the beam for the last bent.

Justin Bailey

I've gotten the 4th bent finished, one more like these to go. Everything seems to be aligned OK 8)

  

  

  .
I will either restack some of the back of the pile to be under the roof, or just keep it in mind when making any new piles. The front of the piles could be started out further, too. I wanted to stay away with the roof, from being too close to a row of trees at the back. Current piles were placed without this concern.

Justin Bailey

I've gotten the last (5th) bent finished, and am glad the next work won't involve much bending down (crouching).  :(

  

  

 
This took me 3 months, working outside of my regular job. :o

Justin Bailey

The 6x6 beams I wanted to use next for the plates, were drying for most of a year now, but had twisted so badly, that I would have had trouble using them, so I began cutting them up to make laminated beams that are straight and flat, and (I'm hoping) possibly actually stronger than the solid wood they will now replace.


  

  

 
I have the rest of the 16' beams cut up, pieces planed, ready to go, just clamping them dry together a short while to get more clamps, the first one almost called for my limit of what I have, but to do the best job, I opted for more clamps. This presents a lot of extra work, but maybe worth it to have better looking, tighter & stronger joints, and have a stronger beam, which was 'iffy' to use just a 6x6 in the 1st place.  :-\ :D I didn't want to 'square rule' and possibly undersize the joint, just to deal with untrue lumber, so this is what... I'm using titebond 3 and I know this isn't a structurally rated glue, but I trust it economically over epoxy, and also ease of use/ clean up is an incentive.

Moisture meter readings ranged 11-15% and it seemed successful studying the 1st one, I also used a 4" firm foam roller and tray, estimating a whole pint of glue (probably closer to 2) was used at least on the 8 sides, but had to hurry to get the last sides coated before the 1st one got too dry, all seems good w/ decent squeeze out. I am paying most attention to pairing up & orienting boards so that they oppose each others' deviation from trueness and less how growth rings viewed from the end relate (or not), and also selecting the nicest, strongest pieces for the outsides, and some nice ones with a little wane edge. I will orient the beam in use so that the layers are in the vertical position.

Justin Bailey

Does any one have any input or bet regarding weather this 'DIY lamination' can outperform a box heart solid beam or how? Is it loosing elasticity, or increasing shear failure threshold? I am not experienced in different construction design physics as some.

I jointed and planed away a lot of material to get out some of the defecting curves of the individual pieces after bandsaw ripping.  The beams themselves were halved twice then I also cut a 4x6 in half and also used 2 2x6's to make up for the dimensional loss to make 5 layers.

beenthere

Your lamination beams should out-perform the solid beams. You gain strength when the knots and localized steep grain areas are mismatched in the laminates whereas they are located together in the solid.

Likely will be stiffer as well. Which should be good. 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Justin Bailey

beenthere,
Thanks for you encouraging input.  Dry hardwood firewood is a treasure to have in the cold months.  I just want to have a nice area to keep it, tarps have drawbacks, like runoff decaying the ends of the pile and also that at some point they eventually decay as well and may develop tears or breaks in the coverage, maybe squirrels and chipmunks chew through them.  I hope the snow load does not cause any major failures to my structure. I am still curious weather the beam sizing I have is adequate, I think they may be, but 6x6 size is probably not advisable or recommended to span 15.5 ft like I am doing.  I probably would not have even needed pressure treated but it is commonly readily available size to obtain. 

Nice piles you got, I found a picture in your gallery. Though I am reminded about what can be said about prized autos, what good are they if you don't drive them, similarly with firewood, what good is it and not use it.  (I'm sure you plan on using yours as am I, mine)  The idea though to my project is to preserve the high quality indefinitely, so the wood keeps best. We (father) and I (but mostly his idea) is to have on hand at least 4 years ahead of time some wood that is split to dry.  :)

 

Justin Bailey


Justin Bailey

Some pics of the unclamped finished product; cut off the snipe ends, planed a hair and sanded, ready to stain. This will be the second one, the other one previous was already stained, thought I'd show an example of how it looked before staining. (Insane amount of work here, discretion advised)  :D Plus another of me during clamping, mysteriously proud of all this ::) :laugh:

  

  

  

 

Justin Bailey

Finished making up the four 16' beams, still have to do four 18'er's later, want to get the 2 central bays spanned and braced first, though.   :)


  

 

Justin Bailey

Hoisted a beam in place to mark the braces, and where the mortises go in the bottom of the beam. Remember, I have a 2 degree inclined plate, so the braces are of slightly different length, but they are 45 at the posts. The distances in from the end of the plate to the edge of the mortises are 26-1/4 and 28". ;) (weird eh?)

 
The temporary hoist frame, will have to be dismantled after each beam is finally placed, I can just unscrew the two legs from the sawhorse brackets that join the tops of the legs.  Kind of dumb, but didn't know how else, when I have to work around existing woodpiles.  It's hard to figure on something that will work and be able to maneuver and keep it out of the way of the piles, especially the beams that will span the back of the frame that go directly over this obstruction.  It seems safe enough and works so far.  :( :D Should have used 12' legs, but went with 10' ones, kind of silly, didn't account for the block & tackle height, so just set it up on ramps.  Rear is lower by 1' so no problem there.


 
A 24" 2x4 (1.5 x 3.5") spline will go through that mortise in the top of the post and into a open 'slot' mortise area of the plate beam, and will be secured by two 3/4" pegs through the spline and beam.  The same thing will happen to the other beam that rests on the other side of the post that goes across to another post.


 
I made up two long pipe clamps, out of 3 sections of pipe that are coupled together to make a 16' clamp.  They help ensure the joint is tight when I drill for the pegs, although I am going to pre-drill the beam at the drill press,  I will drill on site using those pre-existing holes as a guide to bore the spline.

Jim_Rogers

Normally the engineers will tell you to not drill any peg holes in the post to secure the spline to the post. You want to secure the spline to the beam on each side of the post.

You could/should consider "draw boring" the peg holes in the spline. This will help you to pull the joint together.

Do you understand what "draw boring" is, and how to lay it out?

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Justin Bailey

Quote from: Jim_Rogers on October 07, 2015, 09:20:11 AM
Normally the engineers will tell you to not drill any peg holes in the post to secure the spline to the post. You want to secure the spline to the beam on each side of the post.

You could/should consider "draw boring" the peg holes in the spline. This will help you to pull the joint together.

Do you understand what "draw boring" is, and how to lay it out?

Jim Rogers

Yes, right. The idea is to deliberately offset holes so that when a peg, trunnel, or dowel is driven it actually places the tenon under constant tension from the inside and plants the shoulders under a similar constant pressure, particularly useful to prevent loosening if the adjoining side of the item mortised were to shrink away from the joint, as in not so dry wood.  I have also made a draw bore pin that is tapered starting at half it's length and also oval shaped all over the length perpendicular to the taper. I did the spline slots last night and painted the splines, also a close up of my plan to use 2 pegs on each side. I thought by using the long clamps, somehow it would help me to draw the joint tight, I guess it is fine for marking the braces, and the post is dry enough that shrinkage will be minimal, but I did not think of the necessity of this drawing both beams tight, and I may need to consider draw boring 1/32" or so, to get the ends of both beams tight and how that will be difficult or impossible to simultate with clamps alone, since that will not be entirely doable with clamping since that tightness will come from their opposition.

  

  

  

  

 
I was thinking if I put my biggest no 5 handscrews on the plate, and then draw them together with bar clamps, maybe I can cheat, and not do the draw bore, but nothing beats a draw bore, I know, I did it on one brace tenon, and the tightness shows when you drive the peg in and it does a lot to draw the shoulders of the tenon really tight. Other than that all I have been doing is clamping the joints together and drilling clear through preexisting outer holes, not the best. It gets tight, but not 'drawn' tight, from the inside. Ugh. :-\ I have "aesthetically pleasing" tight shoulders, not drawn shoulders, to be honest. :embarassed: I understand the plate spline joint is more critical, the braces pretty much get tight(er) when they are called upon to do their job, acting on the mortise's end grain and shoulder together.

-----OR-----

Another way to continue cheating yet have 'acceptable' tightness, would be to place the other plate, in the next bay, and use the two 16' clamps in opposition, across 2 bays, acting on the center post, and that could work, OK. Just would have to pre drill and peg one side of the spline fixed to the one plate, I will leave or have left 1/16" extra room in each plate's slot for the spline, I didn't want the spline to 'bottom out' laterally one way of the other.

----but----

Like You (Jim) indicated, from an engineering standpoint, the draw boring pre loads the joint to perform better (best).

Justin Bailey

I got that 1st plate in. I guess I only have to draw bore for the one side of the spline. For this one I just drilled through the holes I made on the drill press through the plate beam in the 'shop'.


  

  

 

I put the beam in place, raised it up with my shoulder and slipped the braces in at each end, clamped across with my 16' clamps, and tapped them all the way together with a rubber mallet, then hammered the splines in through the posts and into the beams at the end, when I fit the next beams along side to mark for braces, I can mark the spline holes, and drill them offset for a draw bore, but I may just ratchet strap and/or clamp the adjacent bays' post together to get them tight, and just drill through pre-drilled beam holes, the cumaru spline is extremely hard, harder than the locust pegs, so I don't know how much better it will be really to dis-assemble the joint and offset the holes in the spline. Either way I will get the plates tight around the post only fastened to the spline, without securing the spline to the post. Clamped pressure should suffice? No? I know it's not the same technically though.

Justin Bailey

Hogging out the next plate's spline slot on the mortiser.  I'm using a 1" bit, in several passes, down to 2-3/4", then a 1/2" x 2-1/2" straight router bit that can ride along the edge as a guide, to get a final cleaned up depth of 2-7/8".  The routing touches on the sides a little, and smoothens them a bit as well.  I keep checking with the 1-1/2" thickness spline to get a close fit, and also use a caliper to decide which side I can remove from until it fits.  spidey-smiley 

I hold the shop vac directly at the mortise chisel's open side to get the chips away, some day I want to get some kind of snap link nozzle that I can position at the bit so I don't have to hold the vacuum there, but don't know how versatile or effective that will be vs. holding the vacuum there by hand. I usually use the chisel with the opening positioned directly in front, but maybe I could use it turned to the side, but I think the bit is stronger and more rigid to chop the end grain, when surrounded, in a whole plunge surrounded by solid wood when the opening faces side grain. ::)   I seem to get truest initial cuts, with back of the chisel at the rear mortise edge and work front when expanding mortises beyond he chisel's size, than working front-to-back. I used to try to locate this rear edge, and chop 'right on the line' but now, find it is more accurate to cut equidistant from either side, and then expand another equal amount in less forceful actions. Bottom line, metal flexes, and this max size 1" bit poses the most strain on the machine, so I try to take it easy if I can. Sometimes I spray camellia oil on the bit when it squeaks a lot, then it gets quiet, but the chips wear it off in no time.


 

Justin Bailey

I've spent a lot of extra time at my regular job this month and was not able to dedicate the time on the project as I hoped and now construction is further delayed because yesterday, I caught my finger on here, picking up a piece of wood like so...


 

...and had to run out to get a few of these:


 
I am just going to have to take it a little easy for a while, I was reminded of "The boy and the filberts" fable if any of you are familiar.  smiley_headscratch  hurt_smiley

Justin Bailey

My finger healed,  I almost have the two center bays spanned with top plates, the third one is marked, I just have to drill peg holes and chop brace mortises and stain the braces.


  

  

  

 
I don't believe I will laminate the outer bay plates, they have a lot fewer knots, and are not twisted very bad.  The center 16' plates were planed to 5-3/8.  I think that I can hand plane the twists out of the 5-5/8" 18' sticks and still end up with a similar size. This way I can continue working without the difficulty of gluing them up now that it is getting colder.

Justin Bailey

I know I am slow, but now I have the two inner bays spanned. Thanks for looking. ;D


  

 

I left out one of the splines, to use to gauge the rest of the outer plate slots that will be cut, so I kept a pipe clamp on that one post.  Lots more joinery work to come.  I can prepare much of it indoors and keep trudging on into the winter.

Justin Bailey

It turned out the next 18' plate beams are very warped, (twisted but also dry) and will be ripping, re-orienting and laminating the pieces, but probably not for a few months, due to unsuitable shop conditions for gluing-due to low temps. I have observed hairline openings around the undersides of the presumably 'sealed' base components, evidence of moisture uptake or ingress as someone called it, and I suspect the posts may have swelled against the steel.  I may have to possibly run another fillet of the black flashing cement around the seam between the plastic trim-like piece, and the steel square, perhaps a little bit thicker or larger fillet than before.

Maybe I can invent an induction heater to steam out the bottom moisture by heating the steel. he he. electricuted-smiley
I thought the wood would wick the moisture up and out of the swelled end effectively neutralizing the adverse affects of stagnation within the steel areas, at least on some scale.  I only hope the area is less exposed once I add the roof.  Tiny surface checks are a way for the rain to get in.  When water meets wood, they sing that "You Can Go Your Own Way" song I guess.  :D

What if I would have wrapped copper foil or thin sheet around the post under the steel? I figured the pressure treatment was almost just that.

Justin Bailey

Back from a long too-cold-to-glue-in the unheated workshop weather season.  I have started along in the past 2 weeks planing and ripping the 6x6x18 (5.5x5.5) PT lumber into at least 1.1" final thickness pieces.  These will be to glue up something that is much straighter to use for the longer 18' plates that will overhang the ends of the structure.  I had some scrap that I squared and clamped down to the band saw table for a fence, and used roller stands out from each end as before. 

  

 

Justin Bailey

OK, now I have all my sliced up peices planed and ready to glue.  I will make four 18 foot 6x6's using 5 layers in each. Each peice averages 1.1" so I looking for 5-1/2" total thickness.  There is only 19 pieces in this picture, one of the 6x6's only yielded 3 good pieces, so one layer in the center of one of the beams will be a 16' and a 2', butted together, but the joint will be where I will have a centered through-mortise, so no problem there, I'll chop that part away later anyway.  The 4 lighter colored pieces are the 2x6's I have prepared to add to the thickness, I'll use one each of them in each beam.  Moisture readings w/ my pin meter show 10-12%.


 

Justin Bailey


Justin Bailey

Finished the glue ups, just putting on the stain now.

 

Justin Bailey

Mortised one plate beam for two braces, a through mortise and a spline mortise (but not in that order).  Made two more braces. I cut out the beam for the spline and the post's half dovetail (w/ space for a wedge) and tried to draw bore, but tried to do it with a guide block drilling the beam in place, bad idea, the hole got enlarged slightly from hand drilling vibration, but I ignored the light I could still see between the post and the plate beam and foolishly assumed the draw boring would bring it together, did not work as I planned.  Something was preventing the joint from closing dead against completely.  So what seemed to work better for me and how I did the others and want to do the rest, I will drill the beam through on the drill press first, and then clamp the joint and drill through the spline. I should mark the spline and remove it and drill it on the press too, but I will just use clamps, and get at least a better result than I just did.

For the post/brace/plate process, I prepare the brace's post tenon's first (I already mortised the post's before I assembled the bents) and test fit them and then when I get the plate beam set, I clamp the shoulders of the brace's tenon against the outsides of the post, level with the post's mortice, and scribe the upper brace tenon angle with a long chisel riding flat against the bottom side of the plate beam, on each side with the brace, then prepare those tenons, and return and set BOTH brace tenon shoulders up against the post and plate beam, and clamp them tight along side, and then mark for the beam mortises by tracing the ends of the tenon shouders onto the plate beam.

Then I remove the beam entirely and haul it back to the mortiser and study the marks.  If the square line I can draw across off of the marks end up with any difference from one side to the other on the beam, and usually they are the same difference at the heel and toe of the tenon shoulders, I average them for my mortice beginning and end points. Then I measure the longer side of the tenon butt and mark where to go up to with a full depth plunge of the mortiser. Then I take some successively shallower cuts to hog out a crude diagonal portion of the mortice and clean up the slope with a chisel.

I hadn't bored for a spline since last season, and figured I'd try to use a guide block that has hole in it I drilled with the drill press, but the block gets worn and it is just a sloppy way to drill.  I would remove the spline but they are tight, and I don't feel like hammering them out and back again more than once and that would also require driving out the neighboring plate's pegs to free them, so as to not disappoint anyone, I am not doing a real draw bore, properly, but I will get a tighter thing at least visually using ratchet straps and pipe clamps. to draw up the joint and just drilling through the pre bored holes that are in the beam from each side into the spline.  I could have tried my forstner bit, but until now I used a twist bit in the press, but that had a chatter problem when freehand drilling.  It is 3/4 but I also have a 47/64" twist bit for those smallish 3/4 pegs that fit loose in a 3/4 drilled hole that I could have also used instead. (why didn't I think?) I started on the back beam, so hopefully my best work will be brought about for my attempts with the front posts' beams. Metal roof strapping 2x4 is going to tie things together even more in addition to the splines alone.

I apologize if I am hard to follow or understand.  I have no formal training in TF'ing and am just having a creative experience, sharing how I reflect what I've gone through with this project so far. I expect the framing part to be harder than the simpler rafter notching and fastening, I may have episodes trying to wrench some twisted 4x6 rafters down though.  :D :-[ :)

  

  

 

Justin Bailey

Got a plate beam in today, here is a little sequential. smiley_sun

I rest the beam on top

 

at each end

 

and get the braces set in and work the beam down 

 

at each end, gradually clamping down at the spline and also driving down and sideways toward the rest of the frame with a maul and a scrap block while watching that the braces are feeding into the mortises ok

 

when I get it all down against, I drill through the tenons following the predrilled post and plate holes

 

drive in the pegs

 

all good

 

you can see the half dovetail locking wedge on this plate end that overhangs the post at the post joint, it is also cumaru, about 1-1/8 thick is all just the depth or distance the dovetail post top tenon is to tighten it up so the beam cannot lift off this post.  It is erroneously 3" in too far, having only tried to use a tripod laser level w/ 90 degree lasers to place the foot of this post along with the rest of the back ones.  The wood piles obstructed, so I was off considerably, but oh well, the brace shoulders are tight enough for me and I will just leave the end of the plate extra long until I have them all in and measure at least a square-enough-to-accommodate the perimeter of the metal roofing panels, it's just for firewood anyway.  smiley_heh_heh

 

far away shot from second bay

 

end shot, satisfied at how the plates appear to be in a straight line

 

I got lotsa pegs, they aren't riven, but pretty linear enough with the grain I grouped them into S/M/L because some are a hair different, most fall into "M" - in the red container.  I used a 47/64" bit on the press and the same also when following up with the cordless drilling

 

I'll put some black stain on the peg ends, perhaps drive out the wedge and stain it too, forgot that for now it gets a bit sticky with the stain on, and wanted to just get it all fit in case something went wrong and I had to remove it again. The wedge overhangs the post enough to punch it out if I needed to. I thought of making a longer one and making a slot so it rested below that showed it off more but decided against the extra work and thought it may only weaken things. I could always make longer wedges and do that later for a nice touch.

Justin Bailey

These half dovetails were 1-3/4 and I resized them to 1-1/2. I used the generator to power the router, to cut away half of the surface and sawed the rest of the way.

 

Justin Bailey

Another plate is in, the two front ones on each end bay to go. smiley_grin_earmuff
 

 


I actually draw bored these brace peg holes in the tenon like yer supposed to, they had an unsightly gap and it worked extremely well-brought the tenon shoulders right against tight.  I marked inside the post holes with a pencil and then removed the brace and drill the holes starting with a 19mm forstner bit and off setting toward the shoulder from each side 1/2" and then through with the 47/64.  I used my 3/4" home made draw bore pin I ground from a quiate stake and added a big handle to grab and twist.  I should have taken the time to do ALL the joints this way, but was too hasty I guess.  :-\  I tried really hard to test fit, mark, and produce tenon shoulders that are co-planar & square, which seems to add up to close fits with little need for draw boring at least for this thing that isn't a home or church, plus I am also a beginner, so what do I know.


 



 


Working on the next plate, slotted for the spline and drilled the peg holes in a press. My press only has 4-1/2" travel so I just prop the piece up after partial depth to reach through. The latest Powermatic has 6" travel, but I am going to keep mine.  Luckily the bit is just long enough.


 


Angled mortising the outer wall of the mortise for the half-dovetail post joint. The other end rests on the floor and it is still not angled enough to get the exact angle, so I'll follow up with hand chiseling.


 


Here you can see that small gap is the last evidence that the center of the 5 layers was not full length.  I used a 16' piece and added an equally planed 2' piece for the centermost layer.


 


Finished mortise in plate for post half-doveltail tenon (view from top of plate).


 

Justin Bailey

Hoisting a front plate beam up in place. I have five 4x6's resting up on the bent ties, my most twisted ones that I was hoping would settle flatter a little.  I clamped them together to make a handy platform to travel from one side to the other and not have to use the ladder as often.


 

Justin Bailey

7 of 8 plates in, this end of the frame is done.


 


Through the right brace 'triangle' opening you can see where in the back, I mistakenly made the peg holes at the spline joint closer than the rest to the bottom of the plate. 1-3/8" on center from the edge instead of 1-3/4"


 



   :)

Justin Bailey

Completed the basic frame.  I'm going to use some 6x6 rafters directly over the bents, with two short vertical 4x6's M&T'ed into this and the ties below for extra strong doubled-up rafters there.  The bent tie beams already have two mortises placed about a third of the way in from each end.  I covered them up with 3" gorilla tape to keep out the rain as best I can months ago.  The rafter count between bents is getting increased from 3 (4 spaces) to 4 (5 spaces), reducing the spacing from 4' down closer to 3', distributing the load across the plate better.  8)


 


Justin Bailey

Thanks Czech_Made.

The five bents will get a 6x6 rafter directly over them, here is one I am starting with.  It is more complicated than it looks, because of the 2 degree slope of the plates, I had to shim up the beam to create angled mortises how I had it positioned on the machine's table, luckily, common door shims are 2 degrees.  This also created angled tenon shoulders on the upper ends of the short pieces.  The 6x6x16's are also green, so I anchorsealed the ends and have been hosing them down and wrapped them in stretch film, to slow the drying until I get to use them, I may leave them shrink wrapped for a few months and stain them some time later.  The rafter mortises are 4" deep, not the usual 2.75" the rest of the angle brace one's are to help control any twisting as the beam dries.


 

Here was the load of 6x6's, 2x6's, and 2x8" I managed to get home safely with earlier this week.  I bought some 2x8 for facia boards, some is for roof panel strapping, they didn't have 2x4x24 so I will rip a 2x8 in half.  The end rafters will be a 2x6 and a 2x8 sandwich held to the plate with an L-bracket.

 

I notched the rafter only 7/16" deep to make it rest on the post/plate levels equally.  There are two 10" GRK timber screws anchoring at least 2" into the spline (cross grain) at each end.  I marked the angle and while I moved the beam back to the shop to mortise it, I drilled 3/16" holes, then used a 12" bit to follow down into the spline.  I thought I would try some beeswax/turp mix spread on the screw, but didn't really need it.  I alternated driving the screw part way, backing it out, and then searching with drill again to clean out the hole as I got the screws down all the way.  I was worried I could possibly snap the screw off part way, but with some extra care they got down all the way and could torque them well.

 

It's a lot of extra work to brace these rafters into the tie beams, but I feel it will be worth it when the heaviest snow downfalls may occur.  Not only does it help support the roof, but increases the resistance to racking force on the frame's width, meaning the front-to-back direction that the bents are oriented.

 

Here's how I am making the notch to seat the rafters on the posts (and also the plate beams atop the posts on the ends).  It works accurately for me.

 

Justin Bailey

Got 3 of the 1st (I'm calling them 'primary') rafters installed. 2 more of them to do-1 on each end.  All these latest pegged joints were draw-bored 1/16"-3/32".  The frame just got more rigid, before I could shake the frame enough to almost spill a glass of beverage set on it (just testing w/ my body weight), now virtually no movement when doing this.


 

Here is the place they were set up for a 5 days now.  I had 6 of the 6x6x16 and am down to 3 of these.  Anchorsealed, clamped them, & used blankets to wet them down to keep them from twisting as they are green still. They came off a stack at the supplier very straight to begin with but also freshly treated.  I will not have to worry about carpenter bees as much with this PT wood throughout the frame, just the fascia and roof strapping is non-treated.

 

Another group, these are the twisted 4x6 rafters, been hosing them down as well.

 

These are the roof strapping (running purlins) 2x4 and 2x8 fascia nice and flat, non-treated lumber. I'm keeping them dry with 2 of my roof panels laid on top.

 


Justin Bailey

The big rafters are placed now.  The rest are 4x6's. A small branch fell out of a big white pine we have, so I stuck it in the frame as is done.  ;D  (this is after-all, treated (tanalized as our English fellows put it) southern yellow pine which could be any of 4 pine species)  The 'timber' joinery is done, the rest of it is just screws.  I was conscientious not to simply spread all the milling sawdust on the ground, and as it was consequently bagged and sent to the trash pick-up (landfill) sigh. blindsmiley


 

These are the rafters I started to stain but stacked under and through my sawhorses while I handled the bigger stuff. They have their twists, but they are mostly straight as far as bow or crown - I'll wrench them true and fasten them to the plates while also laying the 2x strapping on top simultainiously to correct them. I hope. I got this. hehe.  That one with the circle cross drawn on it is a perfect one. I wrote '76' on one because I weighed that one-76 lbs. Trying to figure out 'dead load'.

 

Justin Bailey

 smiley_lit_bulb We had a wild or European cherry tree (the bark is more like a birch not walnut as in major black cherry lumber species) in the backyard that had fallen down from either hurricane Sandy or Irene (I forget) but had topped it out and kept it off the ground for a few years in the idea of saving it for use for some lumber.  I was considering adding 2 rows of some kind of 'spacer' purlins between the rafters to help straighten them out, so I decided to try and cut up the tree into small pieces to use.  It is 'green' moisture wise but kind of mellow.  I checked with my meter and read 25-30% or so...

I was researching a few different threads on purlin methods, like housed and tusk tenoned and also dovetailed,  but I am leaning toward just either pinching them in between directly under the strapping runners or possible a very shallow 1/8" rabbet or housing, but am shying away from substantially weakening the rafters with any kind tenon or dovetail joint.  I also read that since the wood can shrink, the dovetail would not be a good choice due to the greenness, but also read that cherry shrinks minimally.  The pieces I have produced are random in the ring orientation, some are really rift and QTR, others 90 deg. converse.  I need 44 pieces; five in-between each rafter, yet in two runs 4' apart x 4 bays, plus 4 for the gable ends.  They are 36" mostly and would like to get some short 24" ones under the end (gable) overhangs.  I'll run them at the equidistant 4' and 8' interval between the plates.  Just two rows, kind of in line with the 6x6 rafter vertical braces.  This will prolong the build further (yay!  smiley_whip).

Here is the log after day 2 (kind of blurry, sorry).  It was about 20" at the bottom:

 

After I used the chainsaw and some drawn lines to divide a section in half & also a hand circular saw on the edges, some draw knifing, and scrub planning this one piece is something flat and square enough to fit through my 14" BS. 

 

After a lot of cutting, jointing, and planing I am winding up with some good pieces.  This was the first day where the bottom section of log yielded 7 pieces.  I am up to 13.  Waxed the ends.  Will employ them green for use though in a mere week or two from now.  I avoided the pith area as I was told the farther you can get from the center the more stable wood is.  A baseball-bat size area in the center of the bottom piece of the trunk was punky but could eliminate it.  Lot of shavings, and getting a better feeling working with something else besides PT lumber.  If I were to get more PT wood for this as it seems to run 1$ bd/ft cheap, it would likely be wet anyway and this would have cost a good bit.  A lot more work than buying wood but I'm saving $.  I may not use the brown stain on these and just brush something clear on them to show off the grain and have a natural element under the roof looking up. 

 

I rested my intended 4 rafters up in this bay just to get a look at spacing.  This isn't really a registered build nor code-prioritized, but I hope it will suffice or at least be as safe as standing under a tree usually is. 

 

I am shooting for at least 3x4 size.  I may ratchet strap and clamp tighten the rafters against them and work from one end to the other, and place some screws through the strapping down into these.  I am also considering toe nailing or driving screws from an angle hiding them on the top side.  I really don't want to see any fasteners underneath but also would like to somehow eliminate gaps showing-I want them to be tight, I realize wood doesn't shrink along its length much.  Maybe I can compress them into the rafters a little as the rafters are mostly dry and at least they won't shrink much anymore or I don't expect anyway. smiley_anxious

Justin Bailey

It's a large cut for this saw, slowly but surely.  My roller stands are wobbly and maxed out beyond the set point. hehe.  :D


 



 

23/44, plan to get to 29 tonight.


 

Sorry if this is deviating off timber framing topic, but it's still part of the frame build. cut_tree


Justin Bailey

Earlier I forgot to mention that before I installed the 6x6 "primary" rafters over the posts, I had cut the post tops level with the plates, you can see they stuck out a bit, I figured and cut the dovetail parts to be 5.5" high, but the plates were planed down a bit smaller.  Made them match is all.

 


Justin Bailey

44 purlin peices made. It took the whole tree. Back to staining the rafters. I loaded up on more stain and screws.

 

I was considering dovetailing the ends of each rafter into the 2x8 fascia boards, but that seems to be not much of an improvement, structurally weakening the fascia board.  I may get angle clips for the 6x6 rafters and where the joints butt and use a metal strap on top where it won't be seen.  I should have just gotten all 16' boards, but got 20's and 24's. trying to make it three pieces for the whole front instead of 4, but then there is a joint over the long spans making it not as strong there where it will receive the most strain.  :-\

smiley_lit_bulb Maybe I'll just cut my 2 24's and 2 of my 20's down to 4 18's and my 2 other 20's down to 16' and pick up 2 16's later- that way I'll only have the butt ends where the big rafters are and I can use metal angle and straps there only, and the spans will be stronger to help the assist the plates as much as possible. ;)

Justin Bailey

Applied some clear stain base that has no pigment added, and drilling the angle-iron gable rafter brackets for screws.

 



 



 

Made a diagram to figure out how/what length decking or strapping (running purlins) 2x4's to make and how they'll hold out while staggering the joints. I have them all down to 24' 20' and 12' lengths-pretty simple.  The left-most bay wound up being 2-3/4" less wide as the other three, so I figured out the rafter centers' distances separately from each gable end having a 25-3/8" overhang equally on both ends.

 

Justin Bailey

Stained all the runner purlins to match the bottom of the roofing sheets

 

Here's a sample of the bottom against the color I choose.

 

Also pre attached the gable rafter to the end fascia, stained them all together.  I didn't screw the ends because I have to angle cut them to length, used some long 2x4's and clamps to get them offset accurately, the lip will capture the runners along the top edge of the frame.  These are treated, all the other fascia are not.

 

Justin Bailey

I moved all my materials and sawhorses outside to get down to working on the rest of the roof structure.  Earlier I strung a fishing line and trimmed off all the 6x6 rafters so now I can just string a line from each bay as I go. One at a time, I want to get the rafters all notched and trimmed to length and angle before I attempt to fasten them and add the top decking and cherry purlin pieces.


 

Notching the 4x6 rafters.   

 



 

I'm using some blocks and clamps to deal with the twists, at least just to mark and cut them for now. 

 

I'll go through this again one at a time as I screw them down to the plate, add the cherry pieces, lay the strip purlins, and attach the fascia all at once to each rafter, amounting to 15 different attachment points to it to keep them straight and immobile as I unclamp each one and proceed.  yikes_smiley
Some are severely twisted, but I am confident my method will yield good results.  I alternated the worst ones throughout so there is no one area where there is nothing but. franken-smiley

Justin Bailey

All rafters notched & trimmed to length, attached the fascia boards only to the primary rafters directly over the bents. Now am working on fastening the smaller rafters down, with two cherry 'spacer purlin' pieces in between each. Blocks & clamps keeping about four rafters straight at time. Will 'leapfrog' this blocking and clamping advancing as I go along, while also laying the longer grey 2x4 decking on the top.


 



 

Drill press set up at 45 for pilot holes


 

Justin Bailey

Progressing along with the purlins, and rafter attachments about 3/4 done.

I left the gable ends unattached and not trimmed to length, I will do that later when spacing and laying the sheet roof, which I'll try to center out over everything.


 

Used ratchet strapping to help stabilize it as it progresses.


 

The cherry pieces appear tight. On a few of the joints I had to flatten off the side of the rafter with block plane where they had a cup.  Light touching up with stain afterward.  The stain really dulls a plane iron to cut through but a necessary evil I guess.

 



 



 



 

They intersect at the short upright spacer blocking at the bents.  The pegs in that joint were cut flush and recessed a sixteenth or so, invisible now. The upright spacing is not centered or equidistant, so a few of the upper deck has a little irregular spacing, but they are all 24" O.C. or under.


 

Here I was working at night, (beat the heat) and used this 4x4 predrilled on the press to use for a drill guide for the rafter pilot holes.


 

There's 8 holes in the guide, but only used 4, the other for the other end. I spaced them to screw slightly inward of the center of the outer 4 laminations.


 

The diagonal fasteners, invisible from below and also covered by the 2x decking material.  I used a 1/2" pipe clamp threaded backwards to act as a spreader and handscrews as a stop to drop them in.  They were starting to warp, so needed blocks and clamps that held them flush to the rafters.  Some were particularly difficult to get straight and neat.  At first, I just clamped across the rafters, but they would drop when snugging the screws, so I had to clamp them up under little blocks that bridge over the joints to get them tight without moving.  Things I had to learn as I went.  There are then also 6 3" simpson structural framing screws over the top that have a large head. The grey decking has also has 2  3-1/2" grip rite exterior phillips flat head screws per rafter.  The fascia/rafter ends have three 4-1/2" spax timber screws w t40 washer heads.  I put them diagonally, opposite the twist of the rafter, they are opposite on each end.  So far nothing has split or cracked at all which I am happy with.  Some of the spring back left the rafter not square to the fascia, although I clamped them as such.  It's a fight with this crazy twisted wood, hehe.  I am hoping it will all take set, and become stabile over time.  It just got like 3" of rain on it.  I quick clamped up the last two worse twisted rafters while they were wet.


 

6" screws here into the cherry purlin spacers, through the drill press pre drilled 45 deg. pilot holes.


 

The first bay had around 32-3/4 lengths, but the rest were 33-5/16.  The 1st bay got shorter by mistake, but just by 2-1/2" or so.

I am doing OK, I pushed too hard one time with my chest on the drill and I think strained my pectoral minor muscle that goes to one of my ribs, got to try to never do that again.  I'll be alright though.

Justin Bailey

I have the metal on the top, restacked the piles underneath and added some lights. ;D

 

Shot of the trimmed off purlins, fascias, and plate beam ends before the gable rafter end is attached, all the same length, then the gable 2x6 and 2x8 fascia sandwich fit in between it all.  The 2x6 rafter is notched and supported by the beam and the fascia overhangs a bit.


 

The angle iron and angle clip brackets, and also where I added some 2x4 blocking in between the purlins along the gable end, to make a wider area to screw into to fasten the roof sheet and gable roof trim on the top.  Drove some screws diagonally and filled the holes, stained over them in the grey color.  Also some of that boat bottom anti fouling flat black paint on the beam ends.  The paint is thick stuff! Says it has cuprous oxide (copper) in it.


 

Metal trim.  I don't know what I am going to do about a gutter or not yet.


 

Justin Bailey

Finished but I'm looking into a gutter along the back.



 



 



 



 

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