I took a woods walk yesterday

maple flats · December 27, 2005, 08:22:11 AM

I was talking about a spruce stand a friend of mine has (on another thread). https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=15932.0 I took a walk in it yesterday with him and it has norway spruce, some other unidentified spruce, and red pine. There is only a few of much size, mostly on the perimeter, and all are too crowded for sure. I gave him some ideas about thinning but here is the problem- He does not intend to keep the place after he retires in a few years and does not want to ruin the woods and MIGHT donate it to the city for a park. He does want to get some improvement cutting in and some cash out. He has a lot of spruce that are planted anywhere from 5'-8' spacing, does not follow a well laid grid, kind of fans out and meanders but many have died out probably due to competition. What reccommendations would there be for thinning and leaving a nice looking woods if he decides to donate it for a park? The perimeter is mainly norway spruce with many in the 20- 24" DBH class, the interior is some other spruce, the bark kind of resembles red pine. These are real crowded. Some are 14-16" DBH but most are 5-10" DBH. I plan on getting a prism soon and can at that time give a better idea on density. There is NO sunlight that reaches the ground except where a tree has blown down or broken off. Any help appreciated. Thanks

Ron Scott · December 27, 2005, 05:33:04 PM

Best to have your local Conservation District Forester or Service Forester take a look at it for a recommendation to meet your objectives. A lot also depends upon your local spruce markets.

jon12345 · December 28, 2005, 04:04:54 PM

Do those 'red pines' have bark missing near the top half of the tree making them appear orange? - scotch pine

Depending on the size of the area and being near a city it could be a great opportunity to create an outdoor classroom. If donating it to the city, it may also be a good idea to talk to the arborist if the city has one, or a parks/recration person, who might have a better idea about the cities need for green space.

As for logging the area before donating it, you could log out some well placed 'trails' so it doesnt look like it was logged. Another thing to remember is depending on how tall those 5-10" trees in the middle are, the big ones on the edge may be blockin the wind for them, removing those big guys might create a mess

maple flats · December 28, 2005, 07:06:11 PM

These are not scotch pines. Some other good food for thought. The city has no arborist, too small a city, but they do have a parks and recreation dept and director. If he decides to log some I have the feeling it would be now and any potential donating sounds like it would be in 3+ years. If done right the logging could look good. The limbs and tops could even be chipped for path mulch. In NYS it is illegal to cut an evergreen and leave the limbs on, they must be cut off. After that chipping could be done easily even with a chipper I have that I told him he could borrow.

getoverit · December 28, 2005, 07:18:51 PM

Quote from: maple flats on December 28, 2005, 07:06:11 PM
In NYS it is illegal to cut an evergreen and leave the limbs on, they must be cut off.

I've got my thinking cap on, but for the life of me I cant figure out what brought this law into being??? any ideas?

maple flats · December 28, 2005, 08:13:42 PM

no good reason. My GUESS would be something like- to keep a low profile, looks neater? NYS is good at passing laws no body can see the purpose of, good old NY. I smiley_heart NY! ;D NOT

jon12345 · December 28, 2005, 09:29:56 PM

That tree snapped about 3 feet up, I just cut off the stump and blocked up the rest of what I could for campfire wood ;D

sawguy21 · December 28, 2005, 10:14:56 PM

Quote from: getoverit on December 28, 2005, 07:18:51 PM

I've got my thinking cap on, but for the life of me I cant figure out what brought this law into being??? any ideas?

Seems that would be tough on the Christmas tree cutters.

farmerdoug · December 28, 2005, 10:32:36 PM

They get their Christmas trees from China anyways.

You know the saying:

Save the trees and environment
Send the money to China and others
Then when they own us
They will have a wealth of nature resources to plunder.

jon12345 · December 28, 2005, 10:51:28 PM

Limbing tops is part of the NY fire regulations, according to this BMP article

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dlf/privland/privassist/bmp.html

farmerdoug · December 28, 2005, 11:01:40 PM

Quote from: jon12345 on December 28, 2005, 10:51:28 PM
Limbing tops is part of the NY fire regulations, according to this BMP article

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dlf/privland/privassist/bmp.html

That sure would make one ugly Christmas tree stick. Bet they don't sell very good in New York City. ;D

crtreedude · December 29, 2005, 05:40:35 AM

I suspect that if you cut a evergreen and leave the limbs on, you you create a major fire hazzard (or so the thinking goes) because the limbs dry out, but take a long time to decompose - so one spark and you really have a problem.

jon12345 · December 29, 2005, 12:21:15 PM

The tops would probably also provide a ladder turning a ground fire into canopy fire

Ron Scott · December 29, 2005, 12:27:41 PM

Yes, it's basically a fire prevention requirement, but also adds to aesthetics. We also need to remove the slash from within 50 feet of any traveled road or motorized trail.

maple flats · January 15, 2006, 08:18:01 PM

Well maybe they did do it for a good reason. Forest fires are bad news if not in a controlled burn. It does renew the forest but much is lost in the restoration.

Max sawdust · January 16, 2006, 03:48:06 AM

You should be able to do a very selective cut and not even be able to tell it was done. Actually the woods will look better ;D I cut the stumps to the ground take out 3" limbs for firewood, brush to 1 foot, scatter in depressions in the landscape, when looking from a trail you can not even tell an area was logged.

It is my experience that unless limbs are removed from evergreen they become "everbrush" :D When doing a woodlot clean up I will cut the limbs off the dead ones that have been on the down for years. Need ground contact for the stuff to rot.

Log it 8)
Max

pedajas · January 17, 2006, 02:42:38 AM

I know how much work is needed to get uncared forest area to the perfect condition if to want something like midway between a forest and park.
I will talk on the basis of east-north european conditions which probably are not useless on yours area too ???
If there are growing mainly conifers and the dominant is spruce then pines and some hardwoods should be retained for the wind resistance and retartion of the root rot spreading on spruces. Thinning of spruces should be preferably done in winter for the prevention of massive spreading of root rot through stumps. Here the limbs and tops are not needed to be burned or removed but good practice is to disperse them under forest. The pines and hardwoods should be looked from wievpoint how well they are opened to the sunlight. The close distance spruces which are shading them, especially from the south direction should be removed or they will kill pines-hardwoods in the near future.
The infected by funguses trees should be removed fom forest and the ones which have damaged trunks-roots, especially spruces, whose in such condition are opened for the root rot infection. The forest maitaince paths are needed to plan. How to reach the all forest "corners" with the minimal destruction of forest (trees).