Got a question for you surveyors out there. I need to put in some fence around my property. It has already been surveyed some time back before I bought it and the pins are in place but the place id pretty densely vegetated and up and down. Hiring a surveyor to shoot the lines for me is going to be a costly enterprise. I'm thinking seriously of buying a used theodolite and doing it myself. Any suggestions on what to buy? Will a Leica T3000 do what I need? Any suggestions? I don't want something to keep forever, only to do what I neeed done and then I'll resell it but also don't want to have to cash in the retirement fund to buy one. I tried pacing it off with a compass and 2 of the lines worked out ok like that because there was enough old fence line and other markers that I could stay on line but the back side of the place is a whole other story.
Talking about shooting a fence line would a rifle scope and a tripod work for you, just add a rifle to the bottom of it and take out some coyotes while your at it.
How far apart are the markers?
Quarter sections for the most part. One set is a half section.
Lee, I have had pretty good results using a good hand-held gps if the lines are mostly n-s or e-w.Not as good as a new survey, but close enough in most cases.. I don't have the hills and hollers you do, but lots of impenetrable briar patches and thickets. Document the gps co-ordinates and transfer them to google earth, comes in handy...
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on April 10, 2017, 10:52:45 AM
Talking about shooting a fence line would a rifle scope and a tripod work for you, just add a rifle to the bottom of it and take out some coyotes while your at it.
I have thought of that but don't know how I would line it up.
Quote from: pineywoods on April 10, 2017, 11:08:43 AM
Lee, I have had pretty good results using a good hand-held gps if the lines are mostly n-s or e-w.Not as good as a new survey, but close enough in most cases.. I don't have the hills and hollers you do, but lots of impenetrable briar patches and thickets. Document the gps co-ordinates and transfer them to google earth, comes in handy...
This is what I did. Worked real well found some old pins although I didn't transfer anything to google.
Need to buy one and learn how to use it. The one I have is an old Garmin and I never have learned to use it. It's 15 y.o. at least.
Lee, is the vegetation too thick to string a wire out over the hills? I've went by that a lot of times but only had hills in my way, stand at the highest spot and eyeball it down the wire each direction, or put something tall on the hill to go from, then move to the next hill. I wasn't going through trees or anything though, seems I always have one or the other ::).
Is the issue how much to clear on either side for your fence? I like to clear 10' either side so I can brushhog sprouts as much as possible. A little extra wouldn't hurt in case I'm off a bit. Then run one wire and stretch it to see if any adjustments are needed.
I've also taken about 20' of PVC pipe painted orange or pink and strapped that to an old corner post (good line post or tree near good line post) to help get sighted over hills. At least keeps me in the ballpark. A ballon or two doesn't hurt either.
If too steep for a tractor, I've got nothing. We have some good hills, but the only sections I can't take a tractor are short.
I can get a 4 wheeler into some of it but is mostly too thick and in parts it's too steep. Lindy says I need to come off the cash and just call the surveyor out and get it done right and legal. Mamma speaks.....
Quote from: LeeB on April 10, 2017, 11:17:34 AM
Need to buy one and learn how to use it. The one I have is an old Garmin and I never have learned to use it. It's 15 y.o. at least.
Luckily, A friend had a nice one and knew how to use it!
How many acres? What's a survey cost?
We have 80 acres south of Marshall that we have the same problem, sort of. We have one new survey line and an old survey on neighbors land. We are considering having a finished survey to sell the property. The land is to tough for this old forester.
If the corners are established and registered and all a surveyor has to do is shoot in straight lines that shouldn't be too bad. Establishing lost corners is expensive. We've worked with a local surveyor on a couple occasions clearing the line for him so he could shoot it. That saved $$$.
$4250 to blaze and flag fence lines and file a new plat. Less than I thought but still a big chunk. It's 179 acres and oddball shaped.
TR, I've used these guys before and they are very good and professional. They are from Marshal. Want their contact info?
Listen to Mama, get the surveyor who did the work
and another local to give you a cost, ask for inter-visible points on line,
Have the lines "greened-up" yet? if not go fast or wait until winter again
And yes a T-3000 would be helpful, however no on-board distance measurement system.
d
LeeB have talked with the guy from Marshall, he is on here, some. They reran the line on the west end to correct errors, just not sure we can afford to make that move.
I just had a 1/2 mile in an L shape staked and ribboned between 2 known corners and one that needed to be located. 75% was through dense woods, the other 25% was overgrown field; he put stakes every ~300 feet, steel pin on the located corner, new caps on the other "old" steel pins, made me a nice map, and registered at the county clerks office. The grand total was 300 bucks. He did 3/4 of a mile of the same situation 2 years back for 500 bucks.
There is a iOS app called Theodolite that might work. $6 should not impact the retirement fund too heavy. I shot a few lines witn it, and it worked well. It may meet your needs. There are a couple of similar free apps. I mounted my phone to a tripod.
There is a free Android app called Dioptra that claims to do the same.
Thanks clearcut. I'll have to check that out. I'll likely still go with the professional survey but the app will be interesting. How does it actually allow you to shoot a line?
I use a laser at night.
But, but, but....... There's MONSTERS out at night. :D Don't know that I want to try traipsing 2 1/2 mile through the woods at night trying to mark out a fence line. Would be a good idea for open and flat terrain though.
Monsters, smontsters... You've got the laser to protect yourself if old Sasquatch gets after you distract him like a big old housekitty. :D
(I will admit you probably have more dangerous snakes out there than in PA.)
Obviously you sir have not watched the beef jerky commercials on tv. :D
Quote from: clearcut on April 10, 2017, 11:21:09 PM
There is a iOS app called Theodolite that might work. $6 should not impact the retirement fund too heavy. I shot a few lines witn it, and it worked well. It may meet your needs. There are a couple of similar free apps. I mounted my phone to a tripod.
There is a free Android app called Dioptra that claims to do the same.
Does this app require cell reception to work? May not do me any good if it does.
Putting a fence on the property line in Arkansas? That's an interesting new concept. Some Yankee musta thought up that idea. :D :D
Guess yo're right Larry. What was I thinking? Just string it out and hope it's on my side or the real owner doesn't catch on. Not the way I operate.
Just a teasing. The fences on my property were all built by previous owners and none are on the property line. One wanders off a 100 yards on the neighbors ground. An California investment bank bought that property and wanted me to move the fence. Since I don't need or want a fence I gave them the fence....they still weren't happy. :D
Quote from: LeeB on April 11, 2017, 11:08:01 AM
Guess yo're right Larry. What was I thinking? Just string it out and hope it's on my side or the real owner doesn't catch on. Not the way I operate.
That's what the past owner of a part of my land did. Seems her motto was if in doubt put the fence on the other guys land. In some areas she was 50+ feet over.
We bought our land at about the same time. She started fencing from day 1. One Sunday morning several of the local Menfolk came up to talk to the gol DanGed Yankee Florida Boy that was stringing fence on their land. They were NOT happy people. All were armed and not shy about me seeing that. Told me if I didn't stop I could get burned out and if I was lucky they'd maybe let me get out of the house first.
We got it worked out once they saw how nice of a guy I am. ;D
A method used here in NY by the nysdec was as follows.
Bear in mind this was when i was young and now the litigious society may require more accurate results.
It was used to establish state land boundaries.
We worked in chains.
Say you have a line 10 chains long (660 feet)
Both corners have been set by a surveyor.
We used a staff compass and used the bearing given on the survey map.
Working on the compass bearing we set temporary posts every measured chain until 10 chains was reached.
This was usually fairly close to the corner.
We measured the distance to the corner at say 40 feet with no regard to the usually negligible angle..
this means that every chain or 1/10th of the distance is 40 divided by 10 so at every temporary post we measured the appropriate distance and set a more permanent marker.
The first one 4' then 8' then 12' and so on.
then the line was blazed and painted.
Pretty darned close.
Many miles of State land was delineated in this way.
The Theodolite app uses the phone's camera to view in the distance, and the screen as a display. You line up crosshairs up and down and left and right on the objective. The phone's GPS gives the bearing.
It's easier with 2 people, one to sight and the other to hold a sighting rod. I used a piece of PVC with electrical tape wrapped around.
The website for the app is:
http://hrtapps.com/theodolite/
Regarding a cell connection, from the developer:
QuoteDoes Theodolite work without access to the internet?
Most of Theodolite's features will work without access to the internet, except for online maps, e-mail export, and location services for wifi-only devices (wifi-only devices are iPads and iPods lacking GPS hardware and 3G/4G cellular hardware). iPhones and iPads with GPS hardware can get location data without an internet connection, however it will take longer for the on-board GPS hardware to function in a standalone mode without help from internet databases to speed refinement.
When using a GPS-enabled iOS device without an internet connection, allow extra time (tens of seconds, or a minute) for the device to acquire an initial position fix. Once the initial position is locked in, subsequent position updates will behave normally.
Quote from: clearcut on April 11, 2017, 08:57:59 PM
The Theodolite app uses the phone's camera to view in the distance, and the screen as a display. You line up crosshairs up and down and left and right on the objective. The phone's GPS gives the bearing.
It's easier with 2 people, one to sight and the other to hold a sighting rod. I used a piece of PVC with electrical tape wrapped around.
The website for the app is:
http://hrtapps.com/theodolite/
Regarding a cell connection, from the developer:
QuoteDoes Theodolite work without access to the internet?
Most of Theodolite's features will work without access to the internet, except for online maps, e-mail export, and location services for wifi-only devices (wifi-only devices are iPads and iPods lacking GPS hardware and 3G/4G cellular hardware). iPhones and iPads with GPS hardware can get location data without an internet connection, however it will take longer for the on-board GPS hardware to function in a standalone mode without help from internet databases to speed refinement.
When using a GPS-enabled iOS device without an internet connection, allow extra time (tens of seconds, or a minute) for the device to acquire an initial position fix. Once the initial position is locked in, subsequent position updates will behave normally.
I'd be interested to see how well that App performs by locating the
new set points with survey grade instrumentation and making the comps.
D
Recently, I've used Mapwel to build my own custom map from provincial property maps (data is Shapefile format). Then load the maps onto my Garmin GPSMap64S. I only loaded up a couple counties where I'm working. Shows lines and property ID numbers. From the ID numbers you can look up ownership and tax levy and so on if you want from the provincial government web. Must be something similar in most states, maybe not all.
The layer looks something like this when loaded into the GPS. There are a couple files that make it up, one has the ID's in a polygon and one the lines. The GPS can't distinguish polygon edges when all loaded together (no outlines), so need the lines layer on top.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/Mapwel-property-lines.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1497018805)
I ended up get the pros to come out and do it. $4200.
That's a lot for running woods lines. Did 450 acres here on one parcel in 2001 for $750. Surveyor and his axe man. Not even forest companies would pay those rates.
It is what it is. The other bid was almost $7000.
Quote from: SwampDonkey on June 09, 2017, 04:57:39 PM
That's a lot for running woods lines. Did 450 acres here on one parcel in 2001 for $750. Surveyor and his axe man. Not even forest companies would pay those rates.
As I recall the fee included blaze, flag
and file a new plat,
Pretty cheap IMHO for securing the boundary, having a plat prepared and filed with the County
and knowing if there is a challenge the surveyor has stamped the Plat
is responsible for it and will defend it if needed.
If you consider the 450 Ac work on a cost per LF basis and compute it as a box (round numbers), $750/17710LF that person worked for $0.04LF
and paid his Ax man.
Compute inflation to 2016 and you would be in the $1050 range, $1050/17710LF $0.06LF.
I don't think anyone here on the FF would work for that rate.
LeeB keep those lines cleared, brushed and freshened-up annually, the
work and the plat are an investment in the land.
Best
D
Quote from: dgdrls on June 10, 2017, 10:16:02 PM
As I recall the fee included blaze, flag and file a new plat,
Pretty cheap IMHO for securing the boundary, having a plat prepared and filed with the County
and knowing if there is a challenge the surveyor has stamped the Plat
is responsible for it and will defend it if needed.
A big part of the decision to go with a professional instead of doing it myself.
The field work was only 6 hours, the line trees were blazed and flagged and line brushed. It was before leaf out to and not much undergrowth, clear sailing more or less. I went around with the paint and brush myself after. There won't be any challenge to the lines he run or to the paperwork registered. We have a surveyors act and we also have quieting of titles act here. Base was set up in the field and a rover GPS used on the lines.
So once the following is satisfied she's a done deal.
1(5)The application shall be supported by the following particulars which shall be filed with the Notice of Application:
(a)the title deeds and other documentary evidence of title, if any, in the possession or under the control of the applicant;
(b)an abstract of title, together with a concise statement of the facts relied on by the applicant to make out the title and which do not appear by such abstract, certified by a solicitor of The Court of Queen’s Bench of New Brunswick;
(b.1)a plan and a description of the land prepared by, and verified by the affidavit of, a land surveyor registered under the New Brunswick Land Surveyors Act, 1986 who has personally inspected the land, unless the judge dispenses with them for special reason;
(c)an affidavit in accordance with section 2 by the applicant or other person or persons, unless the judge for special reason dispenses therewith;
(d)a schedule of the particulars produced under this subsection.
Same surveyor we used works on land owned by the local mill. I think he works for them 3 days a week keeping the lines updated.
Defending a survey would be extremely rare up here. Not to say that someone doesn't come along and says it's wrong, which could be an adjacent owner. But if he ain't a surveyor it won't get him far. The Surveyor's Act comes into play. And if he defaces the established line he might be getting a few free meals or very expensive ones. A surveyor is suppose to be non biased, much like a scaler of logs. I can use a licensed scaler from your mill with no bias, if he intends to scale for long. He doesn't have to scale my logs, but if he does and cheats me willingly, there are consequences. (NB Scaler's Act) ;)
I wish it was that cheap in my area. Believe me, I didn't want to have to turn over that much cash. :-\
Sometimes I forget Swamp D. you're in New Brunswick.
Looks like there are some similarities to survey work here in the States as well,
Best regards
D