portable sawmill suggestions

[Stroover]

What sawmill would you recommend for a guy (like me) who is thinking about starting a tree removal business (fallen trees due to storms on people's property, etc) with the option of the proprety owner to have their tree(s) milled into lumber for them (at an additional cost)?

[Jeff]

I'd not recommend any particular sawmill beyond any of the sponsors on the left, however certain sawmills will fit certain applications better that others.

If the trees you deal with most often are monsters or in difficult terrain, you might consider a swingmill. If they are smaller than monsters for the norm, and you have the equipment to move the logs around to a mill, then a bandmill may be your best bet. I'd definitely say that if you want a bandmill it should have hydraulic log handling capabilities, for what you have in mind. If this is going to be a regular thing. If its just the occasional job, then perhaps a manual mill could fit the bill.

The Forestry Forum search is your friend here.   Think of a scenario and then search it out. Odds are, you'll find the information along with your posted questions to help guide you.

[Stroover]

Thanks!

[backwoods sawyer]

Well here is a different way to look at it.
Are you looking for a handy little limbing saw, or a big long bar falling saw. sawmills are similar in that they all do the job they are are intended for, but do you want to brake out the big falling saw to buck up a few limbs, or use the limbing saw to fall a real big tree?
what is your go to saw for every day use?
once you decide the size range (price range) then compare saws of different brands in that size range ;)
If you have log handling equipment manual mills put out a fair amount of wood in a day. also got to consider how often it will be used.

however starting a buisness you don't want to get to many irons in the fire at once ;)

[Joe Hillmann]

What sawmill would you recommend for a guy (like me) who is thinking about starting a tree removal business (fallen trees due to storms on people's property, etc) with the option of the proprety owner to have their tree(s) milled into lumber for them (at an additional cost)?

How many customers do you think will actually want to have the trees milled into lumber.  Many people who hire a tree service to remove trees aren't really the do it yourself type that would have a use for the lumber.  Also by the time many people are done paying for the tree service they may not have much extra cash to have the logs sawed even if they want to.

[GAB]

Both Jeff and backwoods sawyer have given you some very sound advice that I can fully agree with.
My suggestion would be to try and find some owners of different brand mills who would be willing to give you a few hours demonstration.  You can learn a lot removing lumber off of a mill. 
Gerald

[GAB]

What sawmill would you recommend for a guy (like me) who is thinking about starting a tree removal business (fallen trees due to storms on people's property, etc) with the option of the proprety owner to have their tree(s) milled into lumber for them (at an additional cost)?

Joe to a certain extent you are correct.
Every now and then an owner has a tree planted by an ancestor that they want to use for a memento piece.
Gerald

How many customers do you think will actually want to have the trees milled into lumber.  Many people who hire a tree service to remove trees aren't really the do it yourself type that would have a use for the lumber.  Also by the time many people are done paying for the tree service they may not have much extra cash to have the logs sawed even if they want to.

[Andries]

Stroover, my son and I tag team a tree service and milling services in the Winnipeg area. Jeff's advice is spot on and I'll add just a few details.
Jeff suggested describing a scenario and going from there . . . here's a recent one for me:
The homeowner has oak and ash that need to be removed for a home expansion. The trees are tall and big, he'd like them taken down, taken away and milled into lumber for later use in furniture and shelving/bookcases.

Here's some of the issues raised in this scenario: How much useful air dried lumber will be produced, exact details/cut lists for the future 'projects' and, go figure . . . most people would like to have dried lumber and a furniture project started within a few weeks of the tree being dropped! Having air dried lumber set aside of this purpose is a sanity saver.

Regardless of which type of mill you end up choosing, much of the tree service hardware can serve double duty on the milling side - trucks, trailers, winches, chainsaws, peaveys, etc etc.

I decided on a band mill for a number of reasons; it can cut long and wide (52' L by 28" W), narrow kerf means more boards per log, trailer gear under the mill allows mobility to the removal site (most of the time) bands from 10 degrees to 4 (your customers may have cedar or oak - you never know) and the ability to cut on a gentle curve (search Jim Rogers' timber framing "curved braces" threads).

Points that the bandmill falls back on are: sensitivity to tramp metal (carbide teeth on a swing mill are much more robust), handling huge logs (big monsters need to be halved or quartered with a chainsaw), and swing mills can be carried to almost anywhere even where there are no roads.

Once you figure out swing mill or band mill, Jeff suggested hydraulics. I'll suggest the same. Milling is all about product handling! At the end of the working day you'll have more milled wood to show, and still be able to do something useful in the evening. . .

There's plenty of work here in Manitoba for arborists and milling combinations - word of mouth and good service provide us with plenty to keep us in the black.

This site is a huge source of info and advice, plus you'll probably see posts from Forumites working in the Maritimes, perhaps close to where you are. Good luck and fire out those questions at will.

[Joe Hillmann]

If you are planing to mill yard trees there is a very high chance the the first log in each tree will have at least one nail in it.

[Stroover]

Thanks for the info, Andries. Very usefull. And Joe Hillmann, you're absolutely right. There are quite often nails in backyard trees as I've found out the hard way.

[Tom the Sawyer]

Stroover,

In my area, I have learned that there are a number of tree services who own portable mills.  Some even own more than one.  Many of them who owned a mill have sold it.  Those who still own a mill seldom use them.  I have had several of them tell me that, compared to what they can make doing tree work and firewood, milling is a low priority.  Plus, there is, IMO, quite a different skill set required to successfully operate a mill operation than there is to perform tree work.   

Utilities and insurance companies pay out a lot of money for tree work, I've never heard of them paying for milling lumber.

[bandmiller2]

Stroover, to operate a tree business you will need a lot of equipment, bucket truck, chipper, bobcat, trailers est. and most have a crane now. I would get your tree removal business up and running that's where the money is. You will need equipment to haul logs why not set up the mill stationary at your yard and mill during the winter when things are slow like firewood to keep the guys busy. Frank C.

[Stroover]

BandMiller and Tom Sawyer, some sound advice there. Thanks guys!

[Nomad]

Stroover,

In my area, I have learned that there are a number of tree services who own portable mills.  Some even own more than one.  Many of them who owned a mill have sold it.  Those who still own a mill seldom use them.  I have had several of them tell me that, compared to what they can make doing tree work and firewood, milling is a low priority.  Plus, there is, IMO, quite a different skill set required to successfully operate a mill operation than there is to perform tree work.   

Utilities and insurance companies pay out a lot of money for tree work, I've never heard of them paying for milling lumber.

     This is exactly what I've been told by several tree services local to me. 

[coppolajc10]

Nomad, I second that.

[Stroover]

Well I guess that's that, then. Thanks for preventing me from spending a whole lot of quid for potentially nothing, guys.

[Tom the Sawyer]

Stroover,

Rather than abandoning your idea, consider gathering a few logs and having them milled for you.  Stack them, dry them and see what you can sell.  Be there when it is milled, ask questions.  You'll get an idea of what is involved, equipment, manpower, etc. and whether you can make any money on the lumber. 

You'll be out of pocket for the milling fees but the value-added steps from felling to marketing will still be there.  You can evaluate how you come out on the process and be able to make a better decision about what you need in a mill, what extra equipment you will need, and whether you could take on that step of the process and make a profit.

You might make more if you handle all of the steps but there are many guys out there making money by specializing in one, or two, steps.

[backwoods sawyer]

Good point Tom. I have milled for several of the tree services in the area. Sometimes it is on site an sometimes they haul the logs back to their yard to mill.
One guys has me mill all 3" slabs and he builds heavy park style picknic tables and sells them for a premium, they sell good ;)

[sigidi]

Down here I know a few tree loppers who have bought Lucas Mills - just last weekend I went out to a guy I've known for about 5 years, he's had a dedicated slabber for ages and just the week before bought a 1030 powerhead to go on his mill. He had taken on a job using the powerhead the first week he bought it (had never used one before), but he asked me to come in and work his mill to get the job done.

He's certainly sold on the idea of it  8)

[dboyt]

I take it from your post that you will be removing trees from the site, and not actually limbing or cutting them down.  I do that, and have good contacts with several tree services.  The key thing is being able to get the logs out of the customer's yard without tearing things up, and bringing them safely to the mill.  That equipment can cost as much as the mill itself.  You won't have enough customers who want the tree cut for their use, but if you have a market for the lumber-- especially among woodworkers-- you may be able to provide them with lumber that they would pay a premium price for.  Do you have an area to store & air dry lumber?  As with any business, you need to figure out what your supply and market is, and determine whether that can sustain you.  A few calls to tree services would be a good start.  You didn't mention whether you have experience as a sawyer, but I'm guessing that you have the learning curve ahead of you.

I'm running a manual mill, by the way, but certainly look forward to adding hydraulic options in the near future.  Overall, being portable has been a good thing for me, because it gives me the flexibility to take it on-site.  Think outside the box, too.  What resources are available in addition to urban lumber?  Do you plan to sell lumber, or just the milling service?

I wouldn't give up on the idea, but it certainly has a risk, like any other business.

[Stroover]

Turns-out a co-worker of mine bought a Lucas Mill five months ago. We're talking about how we can incorporate all your ideas into making this side business idea of mine a reality. Thanks, guys! I'll be asking you more questions as days/weeks/months go by.
:D

[drobertson]

I'd say it is very doable, just a pile of work, time and storage for the lumber, and most likely firewood as well.
Logs with tramp metal will show up as you know, so take it as it comes, if you like the work then there is no reason not to give it a go.  You will need a good chipper, and truck to load it in, it is just an investment, if you like the work, or can hire hands then go for it, be ready for the help to break off at some point and try it on there own.