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Elm

Started by xlogger, January 17, 2019, 01:29:43 PM

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xlogger

Saw up my first Elm today into some nice slabs. Should elm dry slow or should I put some fans on it?
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

K-Guy

It depends on the species. Some are a group 2 wood and some group 3 using the Nyle L53 or L200 manual.
Nyle Service Dept.
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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xlogger

I'm just planing on air drying it to around 20° before I put it in the kiln.

 
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

xlogger

Danny, what species do you think?
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

WDH

If you look at the slab where the bark meets the wood, and if you look closely at the bark, and if you look at where the outer bark meets the inner bark, and if you see a light cream colored band between the outer bark and the inner bark, it is American elm.  If there is no difference in color, r.e. a thin cream colored band, it is slippery elm, also known as red elm. 

The outer bark is called the rhytidome or outer phloem and is the hard part.  The inner bark, called the inner phloem is the soft part that functions to transport sugars from the leaves to the roots.  It is between these two layers that you need to look for that thin cream colored band.

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

As thick as the slab is, very slow drying is the best idea.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

xlogger

that is just the next one to cut, I cut them 9/4
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

xlogger

Quote from: WDH on January 18, 2019, 08:06:29 AM
If you look at the slab where the bark meets the wood, and if you look closely at the bark, and if you look at where the outer bark meets the inner bark, and if you see a light cream colored band between the outer bark and the inner bark, it is American elm.  If there is no difference in color, r.e. a thin cream colored band, it is slippery elm, also known as red elm.  

The outer bark is called the rhytidome or outer phloem and is the hard part.  The inner bark, called the inner phloem is the soft part that functions to transport sugars from the leaves to the roots.  It is between these two layers that you need to look for that thin cream colored band.
thanks
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

offrink

Good information! smiley_thumbsup 

Brad_bb

I've sawn a couple red/slippery elms.  I've noticed that they hold a lot of water and as they dry, get considerably lighter(weight).  It's a lighter wood than walnut I'd say, when dry.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

moodnacreek

The thick elm I have on sticks needs 1 year per inch and then must be resawn to make flat. Also have pp beetle problems with these wet summers. Elm is one of the most beautiful hardwoods when finished.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Just a quick note about the powderpost beetle in air drying.  This is also called the ambrosia beetle and what they like best is to bore out of the lumber and go to the ground and mothers lay eggs in any wood debris on the ground.  So pick up all the debris to help control them.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

moodnacreek

Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on January 19, 2019, 10:40:01 PM
Just a quick note about the powderpost beetle in air drying.  This is also called the ambrosia beetle and what they like best is to bore out of the lumber and go to the ground and mothers lay eggs in any wood debris on the ground.  So pick up all the debris to help control them.
Thanks, I didn't know that, have to put my wife on it as soon as the snow melts.

nativewolf

Quote from: moodnacreek on January 20, 2019, 09:47:26 AM
Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on January 19, 2019, 10:40:01 PM
Just a quick note about the powderpost beetle in air drying.  This is also called the ambrosia beetle and what they like best is to bore out of the lumber and go to the ground and mothers lay eggs in any wood debris on the ground.  So pick up all the debris to help control them.
Thanks, I didn't know that, have to put my wife on it as soon as the snow melts.
why wait? :D
Liking Walnut

YellowHammer

Quote from: xlogger on January 17, 2019, 01:29:43 PM
Saw up my first Elm today into some nice slabs. Should elm dry slow or should I put some fans on it?
Put some tons on it.  Park your car on it, two if possible.  Buy some cheese dip because some of it will turn into potato chips no matter what you do.  Stuff moves like a snake.  

Very pretty wood, but the same grain that makes it look great, also makes it move.  In 4/4 we estimate we yield about 25% bowed or twisted wood after drying.

Standard air dry, no fans.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

moodnacreek

4/4 is too thin. I say 5/4 min. and sticks 12" o.c. and then the D8 !

Al_Smith

Back in the day when  you could find any elm large enough to saw it was preferred for things like loading planks and wagon tongues .Oak is strong but never looses much weight as it dries .Heavy as lead wet and about like cast iron dry .Elm looses weight and is limber as a  noodle.It bends,oak breaks .

moodnacreek

Here and there we still find fair sized elm. Easy to saw, hard to dry. I make sickle bar swathe boards, to use and give away, from elm. It is also good for wedges.

1countryboy

I just pulled in a 30+ ft red elm log that blew over.   It has no bark so been dead a while.  Tree was over 70 feet tall.  Lot of firewood in the top or OWB.  The log was cut to 16 feet.  (my mill length).  30 inches across.  When squared I had 18" x 18".   Cut into 2 by 12 s for plates and a 12 by 12 beam under an old bank dairy barn.   Will use beams for vertical support on concrete risers. 

Dad always used red elm for beams on wagon running gear.  Bend but never break.  I have a couple more red elm still standing (leaning).  Trees are about 70 feet tall.   Will wait for mother nature to help me drop the trees.  

The logs sawed very easily on my Norwood HD 36.   Every thing is buried now under 16" of snow and sub zero weather.

I do have pix, but are on my cell phone.  Maybe someday will take time to get them on here.  
Ohio Certified Tree Farm, Ohio Centennial Farms, Ashland County Soil Conservation Award., USDA/ASCS/FSA forest management(TSI) 1963 to present, retired educator, NOT retired farmer and a real farm shop to fix all my old equipment.

Al_Smith

Actually I have a fair amount of little elms but they seldom get any larger than 6" then they die .After a few years the roots fail and the wind takes them over .Every few years I clean up parts of the ground and if I find one,which I know once I cut into them I save them to side haul logs etc .You'd be surprised how much oak log a few skinny little elms can handle .

These are mostly under story trees in amongst 100 foot oaks so they have to reach for the sky to get any sunlight .I'm not sure if that is what kills them off or Dutch elm .Could be both .

TKehl

Same here about the little Elms.  They are prolific, yet so rarely get to a good size, that I have been cutting all the small American Elms out in the summer as goat fodder.  

I leave the Red Elms though.  I check a bit of the bark for layering before I cut.

Hackberry trees seem to do fine though...
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

PA_Walnut

Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on January 19, 2019, 10:40:01 PMJust a quick note about the powderpost beetle in air drying.  This is also called the ambrosia beetle and what they like best is to bore out of the lumber and go to the ground and mothers lay eggs in any wood debris on the ground.  So pick up all the debris to help control them.


Yes indeed! I put my air-dry stacks on 2B stone since critters don't seem to like stone bases like they do dirt. I regularly clean-up all the little pieces on the ground, move the entire inventory and get the leaf blower to it. Want to make the ground environment as hostile as the surface of the moon for those pests. :D

Also, started putting railroad ties down as bases too. (on top of the stone). Whatever they coat them with, seems to be akin to nuclear waste. 
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
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Northland 800 Kiln

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

  1. Treated ties are excellent.  Most ties are replaced due to mechanical damage, so most used ties have lots of preservative.
  2.  Untreated ties, 6x6s, 4x4s, etc, used in air drying should always go into the kiln, which sterilizes them.  Reusing without sterilizing is dangerous indeed.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

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