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Tree Huggers Strike at Home

Started by Kirk_Allen, May 19, 2004, 07:08:16 PM

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Kirk_Allen

Our local paper had a two page wright up today regarding land owners and their trees.

In short, the Village is going to pass an ordinance that will stop the use of chainsaws in the village for the purpose of cutting "down" trees.  

You can cut fire wood but you will no longer be able to cut trees down.

They anticipate some heat on the issue but claim that all the village board members are in agreement.

They will be assessing a fine to anyone that cuts down a tree on their own property that is within the corporate village boundaries.

On top of the fine, if you cut a tree down that is 8" DIB or less, you must replant two 4" DIB trees.  If the one cut down is 8"-18", you must plant three 4" trees.  18"-30" and you have to plant four 4" trees.

I CANT WAIT TO GET THE HECK OUT OF THIS COMMUNITY >:( >:( 8)

Can anyone say communism?

Their arguement for this is that property values are much higher with the trees than without.  DUH :o

It will be interesting to see what they tell the farmers who regulary clear trees on fence lines.  





Tom

That's your typical bunch of busy bodies who think what is their's is their's and what is yours is theirs.  They don't understand the purpose of imminent domain. That is, if immiinent domain really has a purpose.  Florida is fighting it now.  If it weren't for the Radio Talk-show host, Neil Boortz, Some clown representative from S. Florida would have succeeded with a bill that the gov. could taka a piece of land form the owner if it were determined that it could be used for a more profitable venture.  That means that the local powers that be could take your farm for imminent domain and sell it to Wally World because the tax base would be increased.

And we wonder why there is a growing Libertarian party.

www.boortz.com

Ron Scott

Will there then be a "Village Tree Service" to handle all tree problems within the Corporate limits?  :P
~Ron

Stan

Kin I get the "misery whip" concession?  ;D
I may have been born on a turnip truck, but I didn't just fall off.

Ianab

They just haven't thought it thru have they.
Now who in their right mind is gonna plant a tree, knowing they can't remove it if they change their mind, it gets too big, etc  ::)
Similar rule been passed to try and protect trees in the downtown area, you cant remove ANY tree over 25 ft without a permit in the CBD. I probably protects about 10 trees that aren't on city land, and any landscaping now seem to involve shrubbery only ::)

Hmmmmmm

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

slowzuki

My grandfathers town has similar rules but they are a very urban town.  They can get permits to remove trees that are in poor condition or threaten a building.

The idea is to preserve the vegatated look of the town and reduce peak summer temps.

I don't have a problem with it as it is a completely developed area with no farms.  If there was any woods besides the city owned parks it would be ridiculous.

Ron Wenrich

We have several townships that have put on restrictions.  You can't cut more than 1 16" tree/acre/year.  Basically, they have tried to stop logging.

My wife's cousin lives in this township, and decided to build a enw house.  The tree "experts" came out and told him which trees he had to leave.  One white oak was too close to the house.  The soil compaction and the removal of half the roots proved to be too much.  Then he had to get permission to cut down something that he wanted down in the first place.  But, this time its gonna really cost him.

I don't really have a problem with tosnwhip restrictions, as long as they are well written and allow for timber management.  They zone all types of activities.  I could never figure out why a township will hire a township engineer, but never a townhip forester.  Poor marketing by consultants, I guess.

I had one townhip that made me write a managment plan for anything I did.  Who would review my work?  The township engineer.  

I went to his office and asked what his credentials were to judge my plan.  He said whatever I wrote would be OK by him.  It was a salvage cut, but having to write a management plan doesn't hurt the logger or the landowner, may even help.

As for eminent domain, we have a municipality that wants to take someones farm so they can build a golf course.  That one's in court.  They feel its a better use of the land and could serve more people and bring in income.  
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

slowzuki

Taking a mans farm to put in a golf course >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

I haven't heard of anything like that up here but I suppose it is coming some day.

Frickman

Ron W.
I didn't know that case was still in court. I've read about it in some of the newspapers in the Western part of the state. One of our local towns has had a commercial property sit vacant for at least a decade. The town wants to not only approve any development, but dictate what it is, i.e. grocery store, hotel, etc. This property is still vacant and the town fathers can't see why noone wants to build it up.
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

I'm not a hillbilly. I'm an "Appalachian American"

Retired  Conventional hand-felling logging operation with cable skidder and forwarder, Frick 01 handset sawmill

Pretend farmer when I have the time

Bruce_A

In Washington state the question of the goverment subsidizing private enterprise comes up every little bit.  So far if we look hard enough with enough people involved it has been derailed most of the time.   Eminent domain can only be exorcized here if there is no alternative.






ADfields

Their arguement for this is that property values are much higher with the trees than without

Thats often because the trees are tomorrows lumber income.   So if you cant remove them they have no value and become just a burden with little use to the owner there by driving down the property value of treed land over meadow land.   You see this in wild game all the time.   Anti hunting loves the critters but just try to get them to pay for a water hole or something for them, not gonna happen!   But the hunters are right on it, Ducks Unlimited, Rockey Mountain Elk club etc etc.   So dumb laws like this tend to make a net decline in what they want to protect. ::)   Like Ianab pointed out they haven't thought it threw but I think it's from a lack of smarts! :-/
Andy

rebocardo

I would invite the city board over to watch me cut down the biggest tree I had with a double bit Sears axe, then limb it into firewood with the biggest chain saw I had. Then I would run my axe services in the local paper to top it off.

Ron Wenrich

Eminent domain is supposed to mean for the good of the community.  I've seen it used for putting water lines, sewer lines, and the like.  That services a good portion of the local population and helps the environment for the locals and downstream.

What eminent domain and zoning is starting to become is a good-ole-boyz club.  I have 12 acres zoned agricultural.  I'm surrounded by low density manufacturing.  Believe me, its better than a housing development.

The adjoining neighbors have tried to buy me out a couple of times.  They have fallen short on the dollar end.  I need to live someplace, and I prefer to be a pain in their ash.  Besides, I really like my place..

I've had realtors come in and try to buy me out and turn my land over to the neighbors.  They used some mighty tough language on how they were going to make life tough on me.  The neighboring plant was going to move since there isn't any more land to buy up and expand (that means me).  Well, good ridance.

When eminent domain disolves into a good-ole-boyz club, that borders on oppression.  They always have the inside track and they are going to make the money.  I don't need the money, so I can just sit back and enjoy what I do (which is drive them nuts).

What they don't realize is that at the end of the game, those with all the toys is still dead.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Larry

150 families loose their homes :'( so Nascar can build a new track – Kansas Speedway -- thanks to eminent domain.  Sign of the times.  When I worked for a telephone company I was involved in right of way acquisition.  Don't ever ever get caught up in a condemnation suit as the property owner always loose.

Another interesting experience at the utility company.  Got a visit from the state highway dept. utility coordinator about 8 years ago.  Told me they had a new policy.  Any time we took out a tree on state right of way we would have to replace it with the same size tree.  I was curious for the why on the new policy as we always went around, over, or under trees.  Only time we took out any trees was in the country and they were just brush or trash trees.  He never did give me a straight answer but I believe it was because of pressure from the tree huggers.  The highway dept. doesn't like to make anybody mad especially when they are asking for a gas tax increase.  Of course any additional expense for a utility company could be included in there rate base and would justify a rate increase for the consumer the next time they appear before the state utility commission. >:(
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Bruce_A

About five years ago, a fiber optic company deciced to pay 50 cents a foot to cross my property on an existing pipeline easment.  After seeing what they did to the ground when they went through and the condition they left it in, I asked them to pay me the amount of money to bring my ground back to 100% compaction.  This was after they told me that they were unable to do this themselves.  I figured this amount to be about $20,000 to cross my quarter mile of property.  I also offered to sell them a different easment to make it easier on myself, as I was using the ground in question to drive over in the operation of my mobile dimension sawmill, and needed to be able to cross with a forklift, loader and truck on a regular daily basis.  After talking to four different represenitives of the company, they told me that they would just condemn my property.  I informed them that this was America and that I believed they couldn't do this.
  At the presentation to the county commissioners as to what they wanted to do with the eminent domain powers, they were summarily informed by the state liason for the utilities commission that they did not have that leverage if there was an alternative.  And as I had pointed out to them earlier that the county would grant them an easment along the county roads, they did not have that power.  They showed myself and two other owners in the area that we could not hold them up.  They took the county up on their offer to grant them an easment along the roads.  The last word I recieved from one of their fellow companies, was that the 2 miles required to go around three landowners who wanted about $75000 to cross their mile of property, ended up costing them over $2000000 .  They had to bring the county easment into compliance with their rules.  If you are being threatened with condemnation, by all means get hold of your state utilities people.

Ron Wenrich

I heard the same thing happen on access for a logging job.  In PA, we have no landlocked property.  If there is no access, the court will give you one.  It usually goes through the properties of the original land grant.

This particular tract had access, but went past someone's home.  There was no formal right of way.  Those things were just handshakes back when the original deeds were laid out.

The homeowner contested the access.  The court gave access through several other properties, and the road costs became prohibitive.  Sometimes it works for you, sometimes against you.

The water company tore up my lane to do some pipe work.  I asked what they were going to use as backfill.  They were going to use dirt.  I told them 2B modified, bottom to top.  They complied and I never had any problem with the lane.  
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

rebocardo

In Peabody MA they took away over 400 homes to build an industrial park in thename of progress.

mhasel

The axe method was going to be my first suggestion or if you really wanted to get everyone worked up start up a rehab center for out of work beavers and let them roam free at night:) Then when the trees start falling and they want to go after the littler critters give PETA a call and you will have quite a show around town.

I have to admit that all the rules and regulations are crazy, we don't own property just rent it from the government. However in most cases local government will still listen to landowners if you can just get everyone to ban together once in a while!!

Mike

sawmillsi

In the area I live in (far north coast of NSW, australia), our local government regulations stipulate that all trees over 3 meters (9') in height are immeadiatly covered under a tree preservation order.

The is a small number of trees on the exemption list and the only other exemption is if the tree is within a 2 meter (6') 'footprint' of an existing house or building.

Thats not right!

Simon

Cedarman

Orange Co Indiana.  No zoning laws. We like it that way. The last time zoning was being planned for the county the officials decided that they wanted nothing to do with it. The newspaper said they took the death threats seriously.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Tom

Why do you suppose we are so all fired anxious to create bureaucracies in our governments when governments sole purpose seems to be to keep us from doing what we want to do? :-/ :P

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