My sawmill conundrum - Norwood HD36 vs. Woodlander HM130

[Everest123]

I need some input from experts / experience sawyers.  I've gone through a million reviews, youtube videos, and these forums and I'm quite literally stuck between these two admittedly very different mills.  Here's the decision I'm looking at, and before anyone says it, I realize this is not a straight apples to apples comparison.  But for my anticipated use (based on my limited knowledge) these are my two top competitors.  I always welcome "hey dummy, you haven't even considered this" type of input though

About Me - I have 180 acres of property in rural Virginia, with 150 acres fully wooded with 50-80 year old woods.  Lots of black walnut, maple, poplar, pine, black locust, etc.  I'm a casual woodworker with lots of project ideas.  I LOVE the idea of milling my own lumber and can think of many projects.  I am not, nor will I ever be, a professional sawyer.  I have no interest in selling wood, just making some great lumber for projects, sharing with friends, etc.  The property is large, with logging road throughout.  I have a lot of heavy equipment including tractors, a backhoe, utility vehicles, etc.  I have plenty of ways to move large logs.  The largest trees on my property are in the 30" range.  I might have a FEW larger than that, but the vast majority will be in the 15-20" range.  I plan to build a 12x40' pole barn to house the sawmill and for general storage.  I expect most operations will be done right there so a trailered mill is more of a luxury vs. a requirement.  Time is critical for me.  I work like a dog, so I prefer not to spend weeks building and maintaining a mill.  I need it to come together quickly, and work when I need it to work with minimal fussing.  Anything else and it becomes en expensive lawn ornament.  If I'm being brutally honest, I would guess this mill will be used 4-5 times a year to crank out a few logs worth of wood.  More if I'm suppying a major project, but that won't be the norm.  My budget is in the $10k range. 

Why the Woodlander HM130?  It will handle up to 30" logs, looks much simpler to build (this is a MAJOR consideration), is 25% less money than the Norwood (albeit not a totally fair comparison), gets good reviews and seems to operate reliably.  I really like Kohler motors, I've had a few and they just work.  Every time.  I like the Woodlander HM130XL which comes with a trailer for portability to other locations if I choose, and easy auto-leveling. While made in China it seems to be of reasonably high quality and is largely made with commodity parts.  On the down side it can never be upgraded to hydraulics (which I'm not sure I'd ever need anyway), and has less overall capacity vs. the Norwood.  All in all this seems to be the better "value" and given my anticipate light use, seems like a good choice.

Why the Norwood HD36?  It will handle any log on my property now or in the future.  It seems better made overall to me and can be upgraded endlessly.  There is a huge following on-line which means lots of experience to tap into and youtube tutorials abound.  I haven't read of seen quick as many "huh what was that" issues as I have with the Woodlander, although it seems all mills have their querks.  The down side is that equally configured w/ a trailer it's $4k more than the Woodlander.  The build process is incredibly intimidating to me (I'm sorry to say this is a huge factor).  I've never seen so many bolts in my life and if it takes me 4-5 days to assemble - that's 3-4 months for me in terms of free time.  Balancing that out - I'm not sure the trailer is absolutely necessary.  I'm preparing a level gravel surface for the mill, eventually with a roof, so it will go onto heavy concrete blocks for stability and I can bring logs to the mill with my equiment.  

So - sorry for the long post - but I want to get fully informed view and experiences.  What would YOU suggest I do? What questions am I not even asking? What options have I not even considered? WoodMizers seem to be really solid, but to get into the size range of either of these mills the costs spiral out of control. Am I going to want hydraulics in 5-6 6 years and I just don't know it yet because I have no experience?  Is the HD36 easier to build than I think?

Talk to me

-Jeff

[WV Sawmiller]

   Sorry to burst your bubble but I'd think you would be better off periodically just hiring a mobile sawyer to come saw your logs for you if you don't plan to saw more often than that. I'm thinking you could get 30K-35K bf of lumber sawed for your proposed $10K mill budget without including operating or maintenance costs. You'd still have to cut and stage the logs which will be your responsibility anyway. When not in use the mill would just be deteriorating. JMHO.

[Sawmill Man]

If time is really as important as you say I would highly recommend you hire a portable sawyer to come in and saw out your materials for your projects.  If the mill is already assembled it still takes time to learn to saw and more time to sharpen blades. You will spend plenty of time just getting logs to the mill and then moving lumber and stacking for air drying. I have sawn out houses for people that wanted mills and then they completely changed their minds after they saw how much work it was. Now if you just really really want a mill, I say go all out and get a super hd woodmizer and then grin every time you crank it up.lol

[Everest123]

Hiring a portable sawyer is something I've considered actually.  It doesn't let me learn much in the way of new skills though, and it requires careful time scheduling and management.  That assumes I could even find someone willing to work with me at all.  There's something attractive about "I've got a 1/2 day, let's saw some lumber" approach that you just can't get by hiring someone.  I'd bet a LOT of mills out there realistically only get used 5-6 times a year.  As in - most of them.  Folks just aren't always brutally honest about it.  Saving money isn't really the sole purpose of this, there's something to say for learning a new skill, playing with fun new toys, and truly doing it myself.

[Magicman]

If there is a possibility that you will sell or upgrade the sawmill, then I would be looking at resale value.  A Wood-Mizer LT10 is $3,995, an LT15START is $5,295, and an EZ Boardwalk Jr is $4,700.  All within your price range.  There are also other possibilities so check out the Sponsor list on the left.  Do plenty of research and do not make a hasty decision.

[Woodpecker52]

Catch the bug, get a good mill you won't have to upgrade, don't worry if you catch it, you will be sawing a lot more than you think,  Go by and visit a local portable mill and watch and try it or go to a demonstration, call woodmizer etc.  If nothing else its a fun hobby.

[tiogajoe]

I just went through buying a mill and feel your pain. I was looking at the LM29 and just didn't want to get involved in putting it together.  I ended up ordering an EZ boardwalk jr.  The bed comes in one piece. I also see no problem with just sawing when ever you want.  Sometimes having the equipment on-hand is worth the piece of mind alone.  I bought a tractor when we moved to our property. Lots of folks thought I'd never use it much.  Now I can't see how I'd do without it and those same folks always need something done with the Tractor :D. I will say I don't think I would have bought a mill w/o having one. Enjoy whatever you decide to get.

[btulloh]

Your situation sounds very familiar.  Sounds like you've got the criteria laid out pretty well and you're on the right track to figuring it out.  

Where in VA are you located?  That makes a difference.  There's probably someone fairly close to you with a mill to look at, talk to, or hire for portable work.

Your apprehension about assembling the HD36 is a bit of a red flag.  If you really don't have the spare time to assemble, you probably don't have the spare time to saw.  There is a lot to sawing besides just sawing the logs and that really doesn't become obvious until you're in the middle of it.  Also, owning a mill requires an ongoing commitment to maintenance and adjustment.  Some people take to that, and some don't don't.  Depends on your general mechanical skills.

There is something magical about going out and sawing your own logs when you have a little free time.  There's no doubt about that.  It may not fit your spare time budget though.  Spare time does tend to acccumulate though when you're motivated on a given project.  That being said, building some buildings takes time too.

One thing you might think about is getting the cheaper mill, but having a portable sawyer come in and saw when you have a lot of logs.  All depends on your budget.  And your spare time.

The bigger HD36 is a good choice if it suits your budget.  I wouldn't let the assembly thing dictate that decision.  Assembly is one-time thing.  Sawing logs is forever.  You can probably get a friend to help if the assembly thing is really an issue.  If you're close to me, I wouldn't mind giving you a hand.  MagicMan is right about looking at alternatives before you make a decision.  Even though that complicates the decision it is important.  I bought the smaller Woodland HM126 and I've been happy with it.  The HM 130 wasn't out at that time or I would have certainly wanted the upgrades it offers.  People that own the other mills are happy with theirs too.  One thing though - more horsepower is always better.  It's all depends on the budget.  

Good luck with your decision.  

[Everest123]

I am located in Northern(ish) Virginia.  Home is Warrenton, VA and my country home is very near Sperryville, VA.  I haven't a clue how to go about finding local sawyers.  Anyone who is willing to drive I'm happy to compensate you for your time either in cash or in wood.  I do have quite a lot of trees, from cherry to walnut to oak. . . .you name it I've got it in abundance.

[WV Sawmiller]

Hiring a portable sawyer is something I've considered actually.  It doesn't let me learn much in the way of new skills though, and it requires careful time scheduling and management.  That assumes I could even find someone willing to work with me at all.  There's something attractive about "I've got a 1/2 day, let's saw some lumber" approach that you just can't get by hiring someone.  I'd bet a LOT of mills out there realistically only get used 5-6 times a year.  As in - most of them.  Folks just aren't always brutally honest about it.  Saving money isn't really the sole purpose of this, there's something to say for learning a new skill, playing with fun new toys, and truly doing it myself.

Well, that makes a big difference if this is mostly to be another hobby. Plz update your profile with more details such as where in rural VA you live. That will help others close to you to chime in. I think you will find sawmillers, especially those doing it part time or as a hobby, love to talk and show off their mills and techniques. I'd bet there are several close enough you could go visit and at least learn the basics. Go to all the shows and demonstrations in your area. Let the dealers know and they can let you know about the shows, demonstrations and maybe even any good used mills they hear about in your area.

  You are probably right though about many mills getting little use. It amazes me to see someone offering to sell a 5-10 y/o mill with only 100-200 hours on the mill. I think in a lot of cases after they get their mill they find it is a lot more work than they originally thought. Rolling logs and stacking lumber and slabs is hard work.

  It is also very likely you can find a very good used mill within your budget and possibly even one with hydraulics which will really make your productivity improve and make the process a lot more fun.

  Good luck.

Edit/Add-on: I see you posted location as I was writing. Check the WM home page under services for Find a local Sawyer. There should be several near you. Also check the Extras box here on the FF for any near you.

[btulloh]

There are some guys on the FF that are near you.  They'll check in shortly I'm sure.  Craigslist and the Woodmizer Sawyer's network are both good places to look for sawyers near you.  You're welcome to stop by here if you want to take a short road trip.  My setup is pretty low-key, but it works for me.

Sounds like you've got the beginnings of sawdust fever.  It's not a bad thing.  Most of us here are afflicted by it and we're all managing.  I went through a long process before I jumped in and bough my little mill.  My only regret was not doing it sooner.

[Magicman]

Google is your friend.  I did a search and found several portable sawmills near you.

[Everest123]

I've updated my profile with my location, thanks I didn't realize that was even an option. I feel like a used mill is absolutely the way to go - but I've had zero luck finding any.  Not even one.  I found a few sites dedicated to listings, but they only had $100k commercial mills.  I've seen them EVERY so often on Craigslist, etc. but very rarely and the ones I've seen are really old and basically look like rust buckets.  I'm not in a burning rush to buy a mill, except for the sale Norwood is running right now.  Their prices are discounted quite a bit, at least based upon what I can see.  Sale runs through early April.  Heck I'm still clearing the area the mill will eventually go.  So this doesn't have to happen "right now".  I love the idea of getting a local to come out and mill logs, or heck I'll haul a few logs to them.  I've got a trailer and can throw a few on.

[WV Sawmiller]

Jeff,

   Be sure to check with the Sawmill Exchange for good used mills and let Marty Parsons (WM Rep in Shade Gap PA about 140 miles from you) and Jim Whitley down in Albermarle NC (NC WM Dealer about 4 hours from you). The Sawmill Exchange are a sponsor here with link on the left side of the page. Good luck.

[wbrent]

I have gone through what you are going through now. I settled on a Norwood LM 29 and have no regrets. The job of putting it together is a fair bit of work though. I happen to enjoy that sort of thing so I didnt mind it at all. My time was sparce as well, so it took a couple weeks just doing a little at a time. So if you value having something come altogether dont consider the Norwood. Unless you can find one used. For me its been great. I would buy it again in a heartbeat. 

[Dana Stanley]

If you want to compare apples to apples, then Norwoods Frontier models are more in line with Woodland Mills Sawmills.

OBNOXIOUSLY LONG LINK FIXED BY ADMIN

Products | Frontier Sawmills

Thanks for fixing my link ;D

[thecfarm]

@Jeff,can you fix Dana's post. Please.

Thank you!!!


I bought a Thomas. A very rugged mill,all manual. I am one of those that don't put many hours on it. I bought it for my own use,not to saw for others. Now a tractor I put more hours than most do. And speaking of tractors,you have one to get the logs out of the woods? I also have the same amount of acres. I am very,very fussy with my woods. I cut the tree down and clean up the mess. Than I have to build with what I saw. It takes A LOT of time to do it all. You will have the talkers that can do it much faster than you can. Yes,they can do it faster,but what equipment do they have? I did not want to spend $20,000 for a mill. I would rather spend that on a tractor and a logging winch. ;) Than the talkers have the lumber delivered and build with it. No trees to cut,no mess to clean up,no lumber to saw. There you go,TIME. But I am happy with what I do. If you don't make yourself happy,no one can do it for you. :D

[Dana Stanley]

If I could afford the 36" Norwood with trailer and extension, I would be looking at the Woodmizer LT28! Within inches for log size, and width of cut, but it can handle a 21' log. It has power feed option, no hydraulics but, its good for 350 bf/hr (fully assembled) and it's a Woodmizer!!

[Southside]

I realize you said it's not what you really want, but hiring someone to saw your logs for you is the way to go in your situation.  You mention being a wood worker and have some nice timber there, you don't want to make it into designer firewood in your limited spare time, after spending a bunch of money on a saw.  The problem with a mill that gets used now and then are the same as any other piece of occasional use equipment, belts get flat spots or dry rot, bearing seals let go and fail, rust finds its way into an inconvenient spot, mice build a nest in a carburetor or eat the soy based electric wire insulation, the result is the same, you spend your free time getting things back into operational status rather than working.  

With good logs I could easily saw out 2,000 BF of lumber for you in a day without breaking a sweat.  You, and whom ever you con into helping you tail for the day, however will be guaranteed to break a serious sweat, along with the "I can't lift my arms" syndrome.   :D  Then you can focus on the rest of your projects.  You are still involved with the whole process, but you don't need to deal with bands, maintenance, breakdowns, etc.  

One thing you don't mention is your age, we are all getting older by the day and hydraulics become all that more mission critical as those days pass by.  If you do buy a mill, don't buy a Chinese one.  There are so many little details that can be wrong and will impact the mill function and lumber quality and consistency.  Having real customer support to assist you when you have an issue is worth it's weight in gold when it comes to sawmills.  

[Everest123]

Great info so far!!  A couple of things I noticed:

@Dana Stanley I looked carefully at Frontier Mills, but this video instantly shut down my interest - Norwood Frontier OS-27 Bandsaw Mill in Action - YouTube  I have no idea what I'm doing so when I see professionals struggling with a mill like that, I immediately move on.  The whole mill clogged up several times.  Yikes!

@thecfarm yes I have a lot of equipment.  My tractors I use constantly.  I have a Kubota m7060 with multiple attachments including a large root grapple and a Danuser Intimidator.  It's a beast.  I will investigate Thomas Mills.  I haven't even stumbled across that brand yet.

@Dana Stanley well shoot.....the LT28 is in my price range and it's fully assembled, with expert instructions???  Dang it.... Now this is a three way shootout!!!

I think I'm going to sit on this a while and try to find a local Sawyer to come mill some logs with me... No hurry and the WM LT28 has me rethinking all my choices and research!!!

[WV Sawmiller]

Jeff,

  I watched the video too and there were things I did not like either - I was concerned about the helper getting too close to the sawdust shoot chute and I'd worry about a broken blade shooting out there but maybe that is not a factor with the design of this mill. As to the mill getting clogged up with sawdust I did not hold that against them as some type of wood (Tulip Poplar and Cedar) are subject to that sometimes due to the nature of their bark.

  I think you are well advised to go watch a mill or two before taking the plunge. The first one I ever saw in operation was mine as the WM rep demoed it after he delivered it. He did a good job demoing but many steps I did not realize at the time because he was pretty smooth. Also I did not even know what kind of questions to ask. I will say WM customer support is first rate although I hear similar comments from other sponsors mill too. Good luck.

[doc henderson]

hey jeff.  I skimmed through the posts and have not seen a reference, but you can look at sawmill and woodlot magazine.  Most recently they looked at firewood processors, but a year ago they did all the major sawmill brands.  sawmillmag.com .  You can get back copies for download and a good fun source of info on products, other sawyers and woodlot issues.  sorry if this was already posted and I missed it.  I have timber king and did that because in part they are made 3 hours from my home. good luck.

[mmprestine]

Why not look at the actual frontier youtube page when doing your research?  They have a ton of videos over viewing the products.  The video you posted was demo concept machine and they new this was a problem and fixed it on all production machines.

Frontier Mills

[Everest123]

I just found a used WoodMizer LT10 on Craiglist on facebook for $2,500 with a track extension.  Only a few miles from me.  Maybe I should just go for an already depreciated mill to test the waters and see how I like it / time I can spend.  Any thoughts on just a simple entry level WM?  Looks like a soild mill. . . .

[Weekend_Sawyer]

When I got my Norwood LM2000 it had a piece of expanded aluminum in the sawdust chute. It clogged all the time. My first mod was to cut that screen out of the way. Never had a problem with sawdust building up around the band since then.