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Establishing a New Pine Plantation

Started by WDH, November 03, 2008, 10:05:41 AM

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Darrel

In western Oregon Doug fir is planted and 30 - 50 years later clear cut and planted again. You can look at a mountain side and see areas that have been recently clear cut and other areas that will be ready to cut soon. You can also see on the same hillside areas at every stage in between. The process is pretty much the same but because of the steep terrain the trees are not planted in rows.

It is very much different in Oregon than in the south and yet at the same time very much the same. Is the competition to make a buck tough, you bet it is. And that my friend is what makes this country a great place to live. If you are having trouble making a living in a certain area doing a certain thing, either go somewhere else or change carriers.  I spent a little over 20 years in the lumber industry chasing jobs from California to Washington State during a pretty severe recession, couldn't keep my family fed so I became a nurse. 

My point is, if someone is making a living in an area in one way that won't work where you live, be happy for them and figure out something that works for you.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Ianab

QuoteIn western Oregon Doug fir is planted and 30 - 50 years later clear cut and planted again. You can look at a mountain side and see areas that have been recently clear cut and other areas that will be ready to cut soon. You can also see on the same hillside areas at every stage in between. The process is pretty much the same but because of the steep terrain the trees are not planted in rows.

Same here in NZ, although most is Pine on a 25-30 year rotation. Some Douglas Fir in the colder areas on a longer rotation more like 45 years. Because good farm land is expensive, and profitable to farm, forest land tends to be the stuff that's marginal for farming. Steeper hill land, marginal soils or colder areas.

This pic is the sort of harvest Darrel is talking about, taken on our Sth Island tour over New Year. The bouys in the foreground are from a shellfish farm.


Now this is on an Island in the Marlborough Sounds at the top of the South Island. If you look close you can see a yellow dot on the ridge line, one of the big excavators involved in the harvest. Not exactly a boring flat place to work. Now this is an island, no road access. So all the logs need to hauled down to the beach, loaded onto a barge and towed to Picton or Nelson where they can be milled or loaded onto a ship for export. They could end up in Japan, China, Korea, India etc.

So somehow you have to get a pine log from the top of an island hilltop in NZ, to China, and have everyone involved make a profit, including the private landowner.

Economies of scale matter too. One pine log isn't worth much.
But gather enough to load this...

And you get some market attention. That's a Korean log ship waiting in Wellington harbour to load logs. Picture taken on the same ferry trip.

Then next day in Picton we drive past the log yard where the logs are collected to be loaded onto the bulk carrier.


Of course it's a competitive market, and not a get rich quick gold mine. Like MM says, it's "farming" trees, in much the same way you would farm corn. None of the this is subsidised or involves State owned land to trees. It's commercial ventures where someone has to buy the land, plant and manage (farm) the trees, then arrange the harvest (or find a consultant to manage that part). Then replant for the next harvest.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

SwampDonkey

Some of it is Ian, and the New Zealand website says:

"To help get there (15,000 ha of plantations), MPI is providing grants of $1,300 per hectare for growers to plant new small to medium-sized forests (5 hectares to 300 hectares). Up to $19.5 million is available until 2020."

And just before this was grants for 12,000 ha.   ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ianab

OK there may be some small scale grants to encourage marginal and erosion prone land into forestry. But those 15,000 hectares compare to 1.8 Million hectares already in plantation forest. Those grants are more about getting marginal farm land that's erosion prone into trees so it doesn't slump into the sea. Lots of land in NZ was cleared of forest, for grazing, in the early 1900s, and in hind sight, it shouldn't have been. Without the trees, it just slips away into the valleys and makes a huge mess. With plantation tress it can be "farmed", even with clear cuts, as the old tree stumps and roots hold it together until a new crop can be established.

Timber exports are now close to 4 Billion$ per year, so 20 million is relatively small change.

So the industry in general doesn't rely on Govt subsidies.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

SwampDonkey

Yes, it seems so, that it must be old farm land, as the land can not be recent forest land according to their criteria.

Freehold land here (Mill ground) is not subsidized, but small woodlots and crown lands are. But there isn't a lot of small woodlot acreage here that is plantations, far more is thinning of natural growth and the vast majority of private woodlots has nothing but harvesting and never thinned. There are several woodlots around me that never have silviculture done or subsidies.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Darrel

Some of what I'm going to talk about here is fact and some of it is what I heard my dad and his friends saying about the facts. What they said is most likely partially true.

When I was a kid, Japanese ships very much like the one in Ian's photo would come into Humboldt Bay, Eureka California, and load up the logs, Redwood, Douglas fir, and some incense cedar.  I liked to watch, but I knew that it was leaving fewer logs for my dad's mill and driving log prices up.

Another fact, bark slabs and edgings would wash up on beaches up and down the Pacific Coast. The part I heard the men talking about and may or may not be fact is this.  They had a complete sawmill on board those ships and by time the ship got to its destination there was nothing but lumber on board.  The bark slabs and edgings just got thrown overboard.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

SwampDonkey

No idea there. But this day in age there is no waste from a sound saw log on commercial operations. There is lumber, hog fuel, pellets, and pulp. In my youth sawdust and bark and maybe trimmings went up in smoke in a big cone shaped burner. Then total utilization came along. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WDH

The burners were called TeePee burners.  That was before the EPA  :)
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Mooseherder

Those Teepee burners were the cause of a couple Mill fires.

customsawyer

Just for giggles I went through and read this whole thread. It was a great read and explains why I feel so old.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
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ellmoe

Jake, I can remember , as a kid, going hunting with my Uncle in the North Florida flatwoods. We passed a timber stand that was being clearcut ( chip n saw ). He said, "I remember when those trees were planted." My thought was, "Wow, he's old!.". Later, in the same area, I realized that I had watched the same occurrence.... twice!  That thought hit me over ten years ago!!!!!!!!! :o
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

caveman

I remember much of our area in citrus groves.  Now, much of that same land has apartments, shopping centers and subdivisions but there are substantial live oaks (many over 36" dbh) and other trees growing.  Some land owners planted slash pines to keep their land taxed as agricultural use.  The pines are good sized now too. 

Back when I was a boy and dinosaurs roamed the Earth and it smelled of molten sulfur...
Caveman

Darrel

Took my wife up on a mountain top in northern California's coast range.  When I was a kid, you could see the Pacific Ocean about 50 miles to the west, got up there and couldn't see nothin but trees, Douglas firs, mixed with black oak, madrone, and some tan bark oak. 
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

VirginiaFarm

Great thread everybody. I just read the whole thing and found it to be one of the best threads not only on FF, but the internet. Now I need to get outside and thin my mini-plantation.

WDH

Thank you.

I have another 12 acres that will be planted in the next month with the very best genetics.  These trees that will be planted are loblolly MCP Elite from Arborgen.  The MCP stands for mass controlled pollinated.  The best mother tree and the best father tree from the seed orchard are selected from field trial test plantings.  The female cones on the mother tree are covered with brown paper bags, like the kraft paper bags you used to get at the grocery store, only the small size.  The are secured over the female cones before the cones are ready for pollination.  The pollen is collected from the father tree, and this pollen is injected into each of the bagged female cones to assure that no other pollen in the air can pollinate the female cone, assuring that the father is the selected parent.  Then, after the cones mature and the seed ripens, it is collected, planted in the nursery bed, then made available for planting. 

Here is the product catalogue for the trees.  You can see what is available.  I went with the MCP Elite.  The field performance of these trees has been very impressive. 

http://supertreeseedlings.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/2017-2018-SuperTree-Seedlnigs-eCatalog.pdf

It will be interesting to compare the growth from this new about-to-be-created 12 acre plantation to the growth and development of the plantation established in this thread in 2009.  The 2009 trees were good, but they were not supertrees. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Andries

It's so good to see you working hard at getting it just right.
Danny, you are a Renaissance Man. From genetics, sawmills, histology and silviculture, to kilns and fine woodworking.
Greek Proverb: "A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they will never sit in."
If you get that same guy with a sub-soiler to give you a hand, you'll be enjoying some shade while you're still young.
Hats off to you!
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

nativewolf

Quote from: Darrel on January 01, 2018, 07:36:42 PM
Took my wife up on a mountain top in northern California's coast range.  When I was a kid, you could see the Pacific Ocean about 50 miles to the west, got up there and couldn't see nothin but trees, Douglas firs, mixed with black oak, madrone, and some tan bark oak.

Great!  Good to hear that the regrowth is happening.  In about 10 years or so the PNW is going to have a huge amount of timber coming online.  Now pulp wont' exist really as a market but there should be a great supply of dimensional lumber.
Liking Walnut

red

I can remember when these trees were planted.  .  . Very Nice Job
Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

WDH

OK, here we go again.  Another pine plantation being established.  The cool thing about this one is that I planted this old field in 1987.  The trees were thinned in 2000 and in 2010.  The stand was controlled burned multiple times.  Unfortunately, at age 30, root rot was killing too many of the trees and I had to clearcut it.  Now, in the ashes of the old plantation, a new one is born.

Here is a pic in Early 2016 with the original plantation entering its 30th year of growth.  This pic is just after a controlled burn. 



After harvesting, the debris was piled.



A few months later, the debris piles were burned.



Over the spring and summer, grass, weeds, and hardwood had grown up on the site.  The site was sprayed in August 2017 with herbicide to kill the weedy and woody competition by a crew using backpack sprayers with a modified wand to get a strong spray.  A dye is added to he herbicide mix so that the applicators can see where they have sprayed.



In November 2017, the site was ripped to a depth of 20" to break up any hardpan in the soil.    Today the site was planted with 7000 bare root loblolly pine seedling with the very best genetics available.  These are called supertrees grown by Arborgen.  It took a crew of 16 hand planters just one hour to plant the 12 acre site. The trees were planted on a 6 foot x 12 foot spacing.  12 feet between rows and 6 feet along the row.



The tool used to plant the trees is called a hoedad.  The trees are planted to the side of the rip to keep the seedlings from being covered over with soil from rain/washing and to avoid any air pockets deep down in the rip itself.  The roots will grow down into the rip to get below any hardpan created by past agricultural plowing (also called a plow pan) before the original plantation was established on this old field. 



The neat thing to me is that this site was originally an old field, then planted by me in 1987, then harvested in 2016, and now replanted in 2017.  So, I have seen one entire rotation on this site and have started a second one.  Maybe I can hang on to see this new stand thinned before my time expires  :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

mike_belben

Praise The Lord

curdog

That's a real clean looking tract, and the site prep will definitely pay off. But I hope your tree planters don't head north to the foothills of nc, they're going to be spoiled by the clean flat ground... ;D

I spend a lot of time thinking about tree spacing,  and I like hear different peoples thoughts on spacing,  what is the benefit of the 6x12 spacing for future harvest. I'm planting cutovers on a 10x10 or 8x10, and open fields on 8x12. We have a little slope that affects thinning in areas,  so I widen things a little to account for this,  but I'm always after new ideas for the best quality planting for folks..

Ianab

Very similar to how it's done in NZ with Radiata pine, although most forestry sites aren't as flat as that.  :D Pine trees are grown on ground that not much use for anything else. We also have the advantage the pine canopy generally closes over enough to suppress and weeds, so no need for the controlled burn stage.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

SwampDonkey

Looks like a well planned operation and many hands make light work (old saying). I can certainly appreciate the process since I have been a silviculture guy for 30 years. And I like that the debris piles are disposed of. They would otherwise become porky havens up here that love softwood bark of any native species up here. ;D

We plant spruce and pine at 5 to 6 foot spacing up here. Our softwood hold limbs a long time if they are too open. My plantations are now 20 years old and just now pruning up enough to see for quite a distance. They are 1000-1200 trees to the acre including the natural regen species. Balsam fir grows twice as fast as spruce in diameter and very shade tolerant. I have quite a good catch of fir on about 40 % of my ground, where it is well drained. I do some pruning, but it gives me no extra dollars from any local mill. They are too used to getting a lot of things for next to nothing. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

teakwood

National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

nativewolf

Very intensive work there, tree planting crews can do amazing work.  Question for you, did you consider mulching instead of pile and burning?  Piling and burning moves so much of the nutrient base off site into the atmosphere that we are recommending forest mulching instead of the traditional post harvest pile/burn.  Not that we're not advocates of burning, we'll burn a site to only a savannah if you let us (because lots of clients like the look and great for hunting). 

I'll say that man it is nice to have a working pulp market close by. 
Liking Walnut

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