Small mill support equipment

[DonE911]

Well...  what I got to work with...

Polaris 500 4x4 ATP  ( logging tool )
ATV log arch ( soon, not here yet )
basic hand tools and carpentry tools
chainsaws
4x4 truck
trailer
small atv winch (2000 lbs)

I am getting by with this stuff right now.  I'd like a small tractor with loader, but its not in the budget right now and I can get by without it.

I'll be building my house in a year or so..... after the barn and shop/kiln get done...  I can get it done with just what I have....  the skidsteers and tractors would be nice in making the work a little easier, but would also mean more working on equipment instead of working on the projects.

[Sprucegum]

I have:

Cockshutt tractor as old as I am with a bucket on front and a box-blade or log arch on the back
4x4 3/4 ton truck with a 9000 pound winch I can mount front or back
2 chainsaws and various hand tools

I really need an all-trrain utility vehicle, the old Cockshutt is scared of hills : :

[oakiemac]

Electric Al-Sweet attatchments.
I like the grapple bucket and the dumpsters. I want to get a snowblower or plow for mine. I tried to buy a John Deere but the fool that owns the local dealership never sent one out for me to demo like he said he would. I talked with the bobcat people and that very day they sent one out for me to use all day long. So needless to say I got the Bobcat. I like the clearance better on the Deere though.

[ronwood]

Electric Al,

How well does the log splitter work? My son and I are thinking about the building one for our New Holland Skidsteer.

Ron

[ElectricAl]

Oakiemac,

We use our 2 dump boxes every day ;D

One is used for cut offs and butt flair trimmings that go to our wood burners.
The other is used for the dust and bark junk that ends up on the floor.

The Flat Bottom Grapple does not get used as much :


Ronwood,

The splitter works pretty good. A couple things to think about.

* Get a cylinder that can handle the Max pressure of the skidsteer hydraulics. JD is 3100psi.

* Use new metal

*Our H beam is nearly 8' long, and you can feel it. Our JD is rated 2100lbs and we can pick up a 20" x 2' chunk and move it before splitting. A 3' would be too much.

* You cannot see the wedge at the end, so you get good at feeling your way around.


A sawing customer is building a sideways splitter. I have not seen it yet, so we'll see if he put the H beam out far enough so the wedge can be seen.

We got the 12" wedge from northern toolhttps://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=position"> Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company.
The skidsteer mount plate came from Virnig Manufacturing, Inc. www.virnigmfg.com

[ronwood]

ElectricAl,

What kind of cycle time do you get with the woodsplitter?

Ron

[JP]

Hi Bill: I find a fwd tractor w/bucket and forks (home made or factory) asential to operating the mill: here is a pic. (my first posting of a pic.) JP

[ElectricAl]

Ronwood,

I guess I never timed the cycle :

Just a guess.......................25 seconds ???

The stroke is 36" with a 5" bore, that's a lot of oil to pump at high pressure. ;D



JP,

Good job on your first photo,  hope to see more ;)

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Hi Bill: I find a fwd tractor w/bucket and forks (home made or factory) asential to operating the mill: here is a pic. (my first posting of a pic.) JP

Thanks for your thoughts to all!  JP, thanks for the post and especially for the work you put into that photo.  ;D  I'd like to know what dimensions and type of beams you move around with your loader.  How do you have your forks set up?  Are they a separate attachment or, conversely, are they somehow attached to your loader bucket?

Have a great one,
Bill in NOLA

[JP]

Hi Bill:   the 30 hp tractor will pick up the 12"x12"x 24' pine beam (calc wgt at about 900# and move it around but with about 50 lbs left on the rear wheels///

My wife  bought the tractor as a retirement gift, before I bought the mill and I would reccomend the next size up ////

The forks are simple steel bars bolted into the bucket and can be swung up out of the way by raising and shaking the bucket from the seat//

see pics at:   http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4231442&a=31361344

[Lud]

Since you specify small mill support equipment,  I'll jump in and tell you what I'm in the process of trying since I'm a newbie too.  

I got some tongs for the boom on my old Ford tractor and that works good for the little sticks of less than 12" and not too long.  Get above 12" , the weight goes up and I use a sled that I welded up years ago that I just modified with some wide V's of 2 " pipe stubs.  Drag the log up on the sled,  chain 'er on and keep the log clean dragging it in the half mile from the back of the farm.  Tore up the sod a bit so maybe that's better for winter.  (The bottom of the sled is 2 pieces of 3" angle iron set 6 inches apart and it leaves a track for the X-C skiers by the way)

The sled brought a 20" in and it took a lot of messing around with the boom to get it on my new little 41" wide mill bed .  Lift one end and then the other,  log rolls off ,  do it again, etc.    Biggest log yet and a bit of work to turn.  Sure was fun to cut and want to do more but how to  hand the bigger logs with manual mill and half mile transport?

So many ideas percolating from reading this fine site,  I look up my field edge to the equipment graveyard from before we started renting out to the big guys .  There was the answer to my problems- an old 12' transport disc frame!

I'll have to replace the rubber as it's been sitting 20 plus  but it's made out of 4" steel tube  a quarter thick .  There's no axle .  Wheels are mounted to 2" round stock that the tubing's welded to.  I cut it,  lift it vertical and reweld plumb over the wheels.  I chopped the other part of the frame (that provided the hydraulic mounts and hitch so the disc would lift) and pulled that forward about 10 foot  and started visualizing.

I knew I had to lift the log centered at the arch and I wanted to be able to chain sling so the winch wouldnt have to hold it up.   My grounds just rolling meadows not steep and this is a big arch .  In fact it's 51 inches between the axles and the mill is only 41".  The arch can straddle the mill!   I can bring in the bigger  ones and put them on the mill in one move!

So I stretch this arch in my mind.  Need some extra bracing.  Got a fair amount of 2" pipe.  Do the horizontal run sliding it in the 4" tube I cut nearly a foot on each end and farm weld it a bunch.  Run another pice on each side from the top of the arch out to the front hitch wide so I got a nice big triangle going on each side. Set up on blockso it's level I add some vertical up from the front hitch area and run 2 pieces of 2"  all along the centerline down over the top and a good 4 feet beyond the top of the arch so I can chain the back half of the log too.

So I have to pull the wheels ,relace the rubber and look at the bearings.  Have to get some implement paint from the TSC(old Ford red)  so it's not done YET!

But think what it can do for the small mill!  I can transport  and set on the mill.  I can pull er forward and cut.  If need to I can back over and use winch to roll the log.  I can throw a 20 x 30 tarp up over the whole frame and button up the whole works for bad weather.  And another  thing I thought of was  to make a few pieces of 2" pipe that'll clip across the long horizontals and it'll do  trailering for the lighter stuff.  What do you think?  An arch/trailer/mill cover frame for less tha a 100$!

I'm imaging a chorus of "Send Pics" ....... But am I missing any thing?  I will carry low. It's too wide to roll .  Weight's carried  plumb over the wheels...Since I have to replace rubber what kind of rating do I want on the tires?  Any suggestions?  Maybe a cupholder? ;D

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Good afternoon, JP (Perry?) and Lud.   ;D

JP's Section:
Once I saw the photo of the log arch, I knew that you had posted to the thread before -- thanks very much again.   

Judging by the photos in your gallery, it looks like you've got a pretty sweet small mill operation under way.  I love your idea for the loader/forklift combination too.  Did you fabricate that yourself?

I like your mill shed very much as well.  What are its dimensions?  I'm particularly interested in the width of the open side, as I intend on milling some fairly lengthy timbers in the future (perhaps up to 26 footers).  Did you mill all the posts and the dimensional lumber yourself?  Did you simply treat and then sink your posts in the ground for the shed?  And if so, was there any concrete involved in doing so?

Although it can be a hazardous operation at times, I was THINKING while I was viewing your gallery.  ;D  Consequently, I'm assuming that you do most of your skidding up to the mill shed area using that nifty log arch/4-wheeler combination.  Once the bucked log is in your mill's staging area, you use your 4x4 tractor/loader to lift the log onto your mill's "loading deck."  I would stop here, but I'm on a ROLL (pun intended).    Is any of this correct?

Do you find that your 4-wheeler works pretty well as a skidder?  Specifically, I was wondering about its gearing.  I'm just guessing here, but wouldn't a heavier log be kind of hard on your 4-wheeler's clutch?  I must admit to ignorance about this.  Perhaps the 4-wheeler has a low range?

By the way, I'd be very interested in knowing what else you've accomplished on the farm.  Have you done any other construction up there in Bradford? 

Okay, so I just viewed your large gallery -- not the one from the link in your last post, but the forum gallery itself.  After viewing the additional photos, I can see that the bigger logs you move around require your tractor.  How do you secure/lift the front of the log (the end nearest the tractor)?  Do you use some sort of hydraulic lift, attached to the tractor, to accomplish this?  Regardless, that's a pretty nice-sized log you moved with your tractor and log arch -- great job!

LUD's section:
I really appreciate the time you put into your post -- that was really very kind of you.   

First things first...are you writing from the Westfield Township in Hampden County, MA?  If so, we'll probably be fairly close to one another by year's end.  You see, we're leaving the New Orleans area (due to the storms) and moving up there to be close to my wife's family in West Mass.  Specifically, we may very well be building our new home in the woods of Chester Township. 

Okay, back to your post.  I was very interested in the project you undertook to conquer those big, nasty logs.  Unfortunately, I'm about as far from being an artist as you can get, so I'm having a great deal of trouble visualizing your log "transporter."  I guess I'll step to the front of the "chorus" and ask you to post some photos in your forum gallery.  In case you're not aware of it yet, every member gets some "cyberspace" on the server to post some personal photos.  And in case you're wondering, NO, I haven't posted anything in my gallery yet either; but, then again, I haven't come up with a brilliant idea like yours either.  ;D

"Endeavor to persevere..."  Sounds very "civilized"...

Have a great day,
Bill in NOLA

[Lud]

Westfield township's in Medina County,  OHIO.  About 50 mils south of Lake Erie.  close to the intersection of I71 and I76.    Been on the 87 acre farm for 47 of my 53 years.  Do lots of crafty stuff.

I've posted a couple pics and will do more.  Just having so much  fun sawwin' and weldin' I'm  using up all  my spare time.  One of the reasons I went ahead and posted today was I want to get the tires right Saturday so I can test the bugger properly.  Plus if the wheels are off ,  it's a good time to slap a coat of paint on it.  I've got the tarp and I was thinking that a 3 or 4 pic Abracadabra would be a treat for the Forum. ;D

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Hey Lud,

Sorry 'bout the confusion.  Ohio...well what are you fellin' on your farm?  If I had some idea about the type and size of your timber, I'd have a better grip on what your support equipment needs are.  How are you raising your big logs for placement on your mill?  As I wrote before, I may have to raise some logs up to 26' feet in length for the purpose of boxing the heart, and (God willin') taking some 10"x10" beams away for my timber frame project.

Also, how much construction have you done using your own milled wood?  As you and I have about the same amount of land to work with, I'd love to read more about your exploits.  ;D

Bill in NOLA

[JP]

 :D Hi Bill WOW- I dont know where to start:

First if you go to :http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4231442&a=31354963&f=0

you will see my primary log mover -ether behind the ATV or the tractor.

if you look up in the right cr you will see a window that says view other albums or somthing like that/--open ,go down one and hit  "go" you can go through all my pics this will show most everything ive done//
i have a lot more pics of other stuff so ask and ill try to bring up a pic.
  The mill shed is 22'<> posts, the posts are telephone poles, I reccommend making the opening 2' bigger than anything you can think of cutting///
thr headder for the 22' opening is 3 2x10 hemlock planks with 1/2" plywood between 2 ,bolted and nailed. to span 30' you need at least 4 2x12"s w/ 2 pcs plywood. JP

[JP]

This is the way i load the mill-(should load the mill)
now if i can get the pic // this is the way i act. load the mill
cant do it?? i have a pic. showing using the forks to drop the log on the mill  JP

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

JP,

I hope I'm not troubling you too much, but I found the information you've posted to be most informative.

Epson PhotoCenter.  What will they think of next?  The photos you've posted there are terrific, and they do lend some credence to the maxim "a picture is worth a thousand words"--Frederick Barnard

Now I understand how you lift the "tractor end" of the big logs.  Did you fabricate that 3-point lift yourself?  And have you found that it has the ability to lift all the logs you've come across?  I guess it would be informative to know what you typically fell up there?  In other words, what types and sizes of logs due you typically work with?

I'm also still wondering about your mill shed.  I understand you to say that the open side is 22 feet wide, but you also mentioned a 30 foot span?  Will you clarify that a bit for me?  I recall that a beam in one of your photos was a, boxed heart, 24 foot 12"x12" cant, so that's why I'm wondering about the 22 foot dimension.  By the way, did you use that beam in your own timber frame?  In fact, I'd still like to know if you've completed any construction on your own home/shelter.

Thanks very much,
Bill in NOLA   

[JP]

I made the mill shed with a 24' carrier and set the posts at 22'--never thought i would be cutting 24' beams. 22 years ago I built 6 apartments with mostly mtl from my WM mill which I sold. about 15 yrs ago I built my 3 bay garage with mostly mtl from the same--2 yrs ago I retired and bought the Norwood LM2000- built the mill shed, 4-5 tool sheds etc. and am about to build a new (heatable) 24' shop. JP

[Lud]

B in Nola:
                I just got the mill so ,  of course,  I haven't built with the material  I've cut.  It's in my bank barn stickered up in front of the 40'  wide window.

(I'll digress as Inquiring Minds may speculate , Barns don't have 40' wide windows, do they?)

I built this window as an afterthought  back in '86 when I lifted the whole south end of the barn over my head on 4 screw jacks set on 8x8 posts lifting 16' long beams slung under the main floor beams and  and replaced a creeling stone foundation and a rotted out sill.  We could have lost that 150 plus year old bank barn! No pole barn could ever match it!
The internal offset lift permitted the backhoe to dig the outside trench and  water came pouring out.  It seems they used river sand to level the bottom of the barn when they poured the dairybarn floor and it was acting like a giant sponge.  So I had him cut the trench down to the creek,  welded up a 40' long,  11" beam box out of rebar and wired 18" galv telephone pole bolts where the posts were hanging.  Moved the 40' long stone wall 3' south over the perf line and built the forms around it and poured 11 yards of concrete to form a massive pier/sill.  Cut the posts off 4 inches above the new surface and set them on 4x8x12 solid blocks to prevent percolation from the slab.  Bent tabs on 3" angle , bolted them to the floor and thru-bolted the main posts,  thus locking the barn to the pier.  Little bolts on the outside edge of this sidewalk wide pour let me build an angled frame of treated 2x4's and I covered it with 10' tall corrugated plexiglas  to complete the window which has passive solared the bottom of the barn as drier, brighter,  and warmer.

Who would guess that 19 years later,  by hanging some tarps and setting a fan running , that it could work as a solar kiln?

Live on a farm and you get handy. ;D

The more I read about your future  situation,  the more I think you're going to need a Case backhoe  with a good big front bucket for all the multitasking you're going to do.  I envy you the scale of the project.

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Great post,  Lud! ;D

Live on a farm and you get handy.

Indeed!  The problem on my end, however, is that I've been away from the farm for too long, so I'm getting less and less handy.   Yep.  Part of the idea is to get back to the land and practice some of the things I was taught growing up -- like building your own shelter, for instance. 

You're also correct about the project's scale.  But I've dreamed about this since childhood, so, God willin' and the creeks don't rise [again], I'll get through this.  Thanks for the words about the backhoe; I think you might be right on the money there.  Considering that my project will be from the ground up, and that I intend on doing everything I possibly can myself, the larger piece of equipment might just add the diversity I need.

And speaking of large projects, that barn raising you wrote about sure sounded like one -- great work!  Sounds like a very nice alternative to the traditional solar kiln.

Have a great weekend,
Bill in NOLA  

[JP]

HERE IS A PIC OF THE LOG HAULER I USE MMST OF THE TIME -- BEHIND  THE ATV OR THE TRACTOR  JP

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Great photo, JP!

It looks like you're felling some pretty big trees up there.  What variety and sizes do you typically mill?  Have you done a lot of timber milling?  I seem to recall that a couple of your Epson photos showed a beam or two being milled?

Bill in NOLA

[JP]

Hi bill:  Most of what I cut are Spruce,Hemlock, and mostly White Pine// with a little Oak and other hard wood---I have some nice 18"-26" stuff with about 16" the best all around size -- the beam stuff is new with a cust. wanting 3-5 24'ers --1 down --the rest to go I think they are jest to big for my equipment but we'll see -- its all fun to try to work out and this webb stuff is great--- JP

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Hi, LP!  Once again, I really enjoy the information you're posting.   As I recall, the beams you're working on are 12"x12"x24.'  What have you found to be the most difficult thing about cutting this size timber (White Pine, I assume)?  As I will be cutting some timbers that are pretty similar to this -- in the 26' foot Hemlock range -- I'd really like to know more about how this particular job is going.

Bill in NOLA 

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

That's JP...very sorry 'bout the typo 

Bill