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Sawing Cost

Started by Horselog, February 26, 2016, 06:14:10 PM

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Horselog

Different sides of this have probably been discussed here, but I'm looking for your real world experience on what it cost to run your mill, per BF.  I know there will be a range, but I'm looking for your number and what your situation is (how much support equipment, size of mill, etc).  Also, exactly what you are including in that number.  Are you including extra labor (if applicable)? Are you including all support equipment amortized out of it's life?  Or is it just your actual mill, fuel and bands, and maybe your time?

Thanks.
Benjamin Harris
Appalachian Mountains of Virginia
horse_logger@me.com

drobertson

quit trying to figure it, to many other variables,  I say do it yourself, and see where the numbers wind up,, not trying to be rude, just saying it gets more involved than just the bottom line, Now if you are in a big , business then I'm pretty sure not many will really tell the tale,,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Dave Shepard

I worked up some sort of number back in '08 when my mill was new. I don't know what the number was per board foot. I do remember that my bands and fuel were both at 1.7 cents per board foot. I added up a lot of things that I could only estimate, such as bandwheel belts every X hours, and a replacement engine for $6,000 at , 5,000 hours etc. It's really hard to estimate the actual cost without actually having spent the money. :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

bkaimwood

x3....too many variables, but I'm not making a minimum .25-.30c a bf, I'm sawing for fun, not profit...
bk

Cazzhrdwd

largest cost is logs. Fuel, blades, parts are tiny compared to log costs. If you have labor, that would be next.

ETA about a third for logs.
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

stavebuyer

Running a very similar operation to what you are contemplating we came in at around .18 a bd/ft .

stavebuyer

Putting the  mill together is the fun part. The numbers can work out. Evaluating the "employee" and "regulatory" costs is a little harder. Work Comp rates, payroll taxes etc. are cut and dry and not too bad with accounting software. OSHA and EPA compliance is pretty much impossible. If your hidden away they probably won't bother you unless someone calls but your liability is there just the same. Lock Out/Tag Out Procedures, Hearing Tests, Water Quality Permit, Storm Water sampling etc. The list is endless and the time spent on that side of things is much greater than all the rest of managing the business side of things if you try to comply. Most don't and hope for the best

Cazzhrdwd

Quote from: stavebuyer on February 27, 2016, 04:18:10 AM
Putting the  mill together is the fun part. The numbers can work out. Evaluating the "employee" and "regulatory" costs is a little harder. Work Comp rates, payroll taxes etc. are cut and dry and not too bad with accounting software. OSHA and EPA compliance is pretty much impossible. If your hidden away they probably won't bother you unless someone calls but your liability is there just the same. Lock Out/Tag Out Procedures, Hearing Tests, Water Quality Permit, Storm Water sampling etc. The list is endless and the time spent on that side of things is much greater than all the rest of managing the business side of things if you try to comply. Most don't and hope for the best

It is truly depressing, you'd think we were processing dope, oh wait that's legal now.
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Peter Drouin

Quote from: Cazzhrdwd on February 27, 2016, 07:35:16 PM


It is truly depressing, you'd think we were processing dope, oh wait that's legal now.




Sad  but true. ::)
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

outpost22

I figure I'm at about $500.00 a board foot at the moment  :laugh: but then I'm just getting started.  :)
AND-my logs are FREE!  8)
Creating one more project one at a time.
Burg Bandsaw Mill
Stihl 010
Stihl 210
Stihl 251
Stihl 461
Husky 350
Kubota L3800

bkaimwood

Huh? Where do I sign up?
bk

drobertson

 Horselog, I'll tell you what,, you tell me how much it cost to run your draft horses, counting the training, feed, travel expenses, equipment cost, harnesses and the such, just the cost of horse logging in general,  and  I will get more busy getting my numbers ready for you ;D  that's a fair deal ain't it?  I always thought a smaller foot print in the timber was way better for the timber.   Headed to the Cabin fever Chilly chilli dinner today I watched some Amish using a four team set of drafts pulling what looked to be at least an 8' disc, one man with the reins in bout a 20 acre field, the field across the road was bigger, and done already, Amish owned, very impressive,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Brucer

The term "sawing cost" is misleading. The word cost has too many different meanings.

My sawing expenses, averaged over 6 years, come to $0.078 per BF. That's in Canadian dollars.

That includes only the variable portion of all my expenses. Depreciation is excluded. The price of logs is excluded as well.

Many of my expenses have a fixed component. Even if I didn't produce anything they would still be there. Those come to $9200 per year.

It is a fools game to try to work out expenses in minute detail. Even so-called variable expenses like fuel have a fixed component. So I keep it simple. I have to record my expenses in various categories for tax purposes (that is, if I want to claim them for a deduction).

I total these numbers, then plot them on a graph -- Operating Expenses versus Board Feet of production. As long as there is some variation in my output each year, my handy computer will calculate a trend line. The slope of the line is my variable expense ... $/BF. The point where the line intersects zero BF is my fixed expense.

My calculation is Income from sales ($/BF) - Variable expense ($/BF) - Log price ($/BF) = Throughput.

I have to saw enough BF in a year to recover my fixed expenses plus my depreciation. Once I have done that all my Throughput goes in my pocket.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

JustinW_NZ

Labor is a big part of things I find as others have said.
The labor can also make or break the production as well unfortunatly.

I agree with the others as well, its hard to put an exact figure on things since the more 'stuff' you have the more cost there is.

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: Brucer on February 28, 2016, 02:46:41 AM
I have to saw enough BF in a year to recover my fixed expenses plus my depreciation. Once I have done that all my Throughput goes in my pocket.
If you're like me your pocket has holes in it called income tax.  :D
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Cazzhrdwd

One thing about the timber industry is there are a lot of set prices, for logs and lumber. Its easier IMO to get going in this business because your product always has a value and people who want to buy it. I started selling green grade lumber and pallet lumber. The pallet industry in particular is always looking for material. In this case volume is more important because your log prices can be 40-50% of the costs. More capital is put into production to make up for that.
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

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