The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Forestry and Logging => Topic started by: Brian w on December 15, 2018, 12:33:59 PM

Title: rain
Post by: Brian w on December 15, 2018, 12:33:59 PM
Has anyone ever seen such a wet year in the North Central part of the country. Ohio in particular.. I haven't worked a full month all year. Even the middle of the summer was very wet.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: mills on December 15, 2018, 03:33:35 PM
Kentucky was wet as well. I cut less bft this year than I have in the last ten.  >:(
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Southside on December 15, 2018, 03:53:09 PM
We have had over 20" here since September 12 when I set up my little weather station and it was already wet before that. No sun at all, beans still in the fields, never did any fall ground work. Absolute muddy mess. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on December 15, 2018, 05:13:27 PM
It is why I took the lot clearing job with dry ground, 40k feet but I needed some income in the worst way.  Today flooding all around, my walnut job will be a washout.  Sigh.  If i could get 2 dry weeks we'd finish putting 40k feet of walnut on the ground.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Skeans1 on December 15, 2018, 05:44:26 PM
You guys can't run on the brush mat and work all year like we do out here?
Title: Re: rain
Post by: mike_belben on December 15, 2018, 06:30:10 PM
Theres a small clearcut down the street from me on a wet rolling lot with a brush road and i have to say its exceptionally sturdy.  Anywhere the grapple skidder went off it is still deep pooled ruts.  I pity the fellow that builds a house on it someday.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: dsroten on December 15, 2018, 07:19:52 PM
20 inches of snow here in NC from winter storm Diego and now more rain has made a wet fall completely ridiculous.  Good thing I do this as a side gig.

Title: Re: rain
Post by: BargeMonkey on December 15, 2018, 07:44:21 PM
 I guess the parameters for a "tropical rain forest" require 80"+ of rain a yr, we are up to 78" so far here in NY. Almost every business I know has suffered this yr, the last guy milking here sent the cows last week because he couldn't get enough hay in and with the price of milk it wasnt worth buying enough. Firewood is incredibly short, I've rarely ever turned people away but I've probably lost 100k bucks this yr just in firewood sales, we really only had 4wks this summer that was dry. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Skeans1 on December 15, 2018, 08:01:39 PM
How many of you guys are running clear cuts? How many are doing thins? Is there a better way to run all year vs using a skidder that will sink? We run year round out here in the rain wonder if shovel logging is possible or going to CTL.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Southside on December 15, 2018, 09:08:12 PM
A big part of the problem in this area is 1) clay based soils - it holds every drop of water and 2) complete lack of under brush, especially in plantation pine.  Many are sprayed to prevent any brush and once the canopy closes nothing grows underneath, and I mean nothing.  So you may have 1/2" of pine straw on top of red clay for a surface to ride on, one tire track across it and the surface is pumping water.  
Title: Re: rain
Post by: mike_belben on December 15, 2018, 10:06:16 PM
Its a tough year for beef farms in TN. Beef is down, winter came early and hay is high. Half from the extra herds having to be overwintered that are normally sold off into a strong market, and partly because it was so wet this summer a lot of guys struggled to get both cuts done. Theres a a lot of moldy rounds sitting out.  We had a ton of fungal blight hit trees top to bottom. Same with the gardens.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on December 15, 2018, 10:20:31 PM
@skeans1 the other issue on the east coast is that brushmats are hard to get unless you are doing ctl. Everyone is setup for skidding and don't have any ability to create a brush mat. If you look at the swamp logging show that was on tv a few years back (some thread here referencing the youtube channel they have now) you can see how they do it on the coastal swamp forest of the carolinas, cut roads of wood lay it down and drive in on that.  Not a brush mat per se, actually a log road.  Even then they have huge swamp tires on everything, sometimes duals.  Crazy stuff.  

Southside has explained the real issue we have mineral soils and an organic layer on top of a mineral layer is just a good excuse for grease.  The soils do great in drought because they hold quite a bit of moisture and it is available to trees but when it gets this wet all games are off and this is the wettest year ever on the east coast.  Compound that with our true winter dormancy.  Nothing is pumping this rain out.  Then top it off with a cherry, the ground froze a few inches last week, still a bit frozen so this water is just racing off the top.   Every stream here is flooding today. 

At least in the tropics the environment can pump that 80" of rain right back into the air pretty quick.  One of the strangest things I have ever seen is being in a tropical rainforest and not being able to find water anywhere because as soon as it gets dry for a couple of weeks the water is all gone.  Walk for miles and not see a stream with water.  Crazy.  
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Ianab on December 15, 2018, 11:33:36 PM
Where I live we have 80+ inches of rain, and we aren't tropical (apart from this week  :D ) Up closer to the Mt it's more like 120", And up in the National Park, more like 200. But we have terrain that can handle it, fast flowing streams etc. 

Locally famers do "wrapped silage" this time of year, (early summer). Cut the grass, let it wilt for the day, then bale it green and wrap in plastic. It then cooks up and "pickles" like regular silage, and by mid winter the cows are loving it. Into the New Year the weather is usually more settled and you can get hay dried normally. 

2 weeks without rain here and the farmers are starting to grumble about it "getting bit dry".  :D

But Winter can be pretty miserable. More days of rain than not, so things turn to mud. Not cold enough to freeze, rain 2 days out of 3 etc, temps around 40F etc. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Skeans1 on December 15, 2018, 11:33:57 PM
We deal with a lot of clay out here as well as the big duff mat on top that's part of reason they went to shovel logging year round, it's less trips per pass. Also with the reach you have less trail less ground getting tore up. If an area is bad it'll tong it out so they won't even touch the area, it's just an idea to try.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on December 16, 2018, 08:58:50 AM
So I guess I need to get some pictures of all the flooded streams.  I finally got tired of the rain here in VA and sent it up to eric, bargemonkey.  He seemed a bit too dry.  Excuse me a sec, the catfish have gotten into the chicken coop again, got to set a better gill net.  
Title: Re: rain
Post by: mike_belben on December 16, 2018, 10:53:29 AM
I think the SE vs the PNW is just an entirely different economic picture and probably always will be. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Autocar on December 16, 2018, 12:16:21 PM
Wet all summer and hasn't changed this fall or early winter wet wet wet . Like some of the other guys are saying less bd. ft. then ever in my career.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: lxskllr on December 16, 2018, 01:03:39 PM
Wettest year ever, and that was before this weekend's rain. Worst part, is it didn't get me out of much work. Most of it was between 1530-700 and weekends. I also had an unprecedented amount of creek work. Most of the troubles affected the contractor, but it made my life more miserable too.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on December 16, 2018, 02:09:55 PM
Quote from: lxskllr on December 16, 2018, 01:03:39 PM
Wettest year ever, and that was before this weekend's rain. Worst part, is it didn't get me out of much work. Most of it was between 1530-700 and weekends. I also had an unprecedented amount of creek work. Most of the troubles affected the contractor, but it made my life more miserable too.
Almost every saturday this fall it has rained buckets.  Lucky parents that got to miss youth soccer.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Brush Hog on December 16, 2018, 02:49:11 PM
Soggy here in New England also as its raining as I type this. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Brian w on December 16, 2018, 05:09:22 PM
Well I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one getting rained on every other day. I seen the post about the brush mats and that is a good idea if you're a flat lander but it's not practical here in the foothills of the mountains. I also have been cutting in the state Forest so I'm limited to what I am allowed to do. I would tryy the shuttle logging but I'm limited to the equipment I have already. Especially with the weather I can't afford to buy anything else can barely keep what I have running.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on December 16, 2018, 05:35:38 PM
You are not alone Brian.  What a year.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: quilbilly on December 17, 2018, 09:50:14 AM
Although y'all might not be able to do brush mats for other reasons I'm pretty sure it's steeper here than there. We use brush mats nearly all the time. I'm thinking the lack of brush mats might have to do with the type of wood, it's probably harder to do in a hardwood stand as opposed to our softwood stands. We often, not always, have small shade loving trees like WRC and WH mixed in with our Doug fir stands to drive over in combo with the limbs from the mature wood.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Skeans1 on December 17, 2018, 10:02:59 AM
Quote from: quilbilly on December 17, 2018, 09:50:14 AM
Although y'all might not be able to do brush mats for other reasons I'm pretty sure it's steeper here than there. We use brush mats nearly all the time. I'm thinking the lack of brush mats might have to do with the type of wood, it's probably harder to do in a hardwood stand as opposed to our softwood stands. We often, not always, have small shade loving trees like WRC and WH mixed in with our Doug fir stands to drive over in combo with the limbs from the mature wood.
And if we don't, I'll cut pulp up for slash in the trails just to keep from sinking out.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: mike_belben on December 17, 2018, 11:20:49 AM
Guys running processors can do that with a push of a button.  The bulk of appalachian mountain logging is beat to death cable skidders, dozers and even tractors.  The "bigger" outfits are mostly grapple skidders pulling to a knuckleboom or maybe a shovel loader.  Tops stay in the bush.  Very few harvesters around compared to the prevalence of older stuff.  The coop stocks chokers and winch line but not harvester chain. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Skeans1 on December 17, 2018, 02:00:31 PM
Quote from: mike_belben on December 17, 2018, 11:20:49 AM
Guys running processors can do that with a push of a button.  The bulk of appalachian mountain logging is beat to death cable skidders, dozers and even tractors.  The "bigger" outfits are mostly grapple skidders pulling to a knuckleboom or maybe a shovel loader.  Tops stay in the bush.  Very few harvesters around compared to the prevalence of older stuff.  The coop stocks chokers and winch line but not harvester chain.
Mike that's what we are talking about for a brush mat is running on the tops, with a pull through setup all the slash is on the landing you can grab a turn of it per turn in that can be spread on the trails.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: ehp on December 17, 2018, 05:13:58 PM
land owner has lived 42 years at this bush and said its the wettest he has ever seen, its bad. I cannot make ruts , I cannot cut any tree that does not have paint on it and there is never any small trees marked . Tree by-law person lives at the end of this bush and the next 2 Im to cut . Lots of places the water is 18 inches deep on flat land . If I make a rut I get fined hard so you have to just wait it out
Title: Re: rain
Post by: mike_belben on December 17, 2018, 08:32:10 PM
Quote from: Skeans1 on December 17, 2018, 02:00:31 PM
Quote from: mike_belben on December 17, 2018, 11:20:49 AM
Mike that's what we are talking about for a brush mat is running on the tops, with a pull through setup all the slash is on the landing you can grab a turn of it per turn in that can be spread on the trails.
No i get it.. Im saying its not common here.  Maybe should be but isnt.  
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Brian w on December 20, 2018, 10:24:20 AM
Well here we go again worked two days this week in foot deep mud n now it's raining again
Title: Re: rain
Post by: mike_belben on December 20, 2018, 05:01:31 PM
Yep, same.  Im soaked to my socks and undies despite muck boots and rain suit. How does that even happen?  Worked all day for $40 but the kid inside a 72 degree mcdonalds needs $15/hr 
::)
Title: Re: rain
Post by: lxskllr on December 20, 2018, 05:07:35 PM
Quote from: mike_belben on December 20, 2018, 05:01:31 PM
Yep, same.  Im soaked to my socks and undies despite muck boots and rain suit. How does that even happen?  Worked all day for $40 but the kid inside a 72 degree mcdonalds needs $15/hr
::)
But you aren't in McDonalds. Hard to put a price on that  ;^)
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Wudman on December 20, 2018, 05:21:27 PM
Some days you just need to stay at home:


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/2018073095110108.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1545145981)



These two were trying to get to the cutter that was buried.  You can run on sand until it is totally saturated......then it craps out too.  At least there are no ruts.  I just runs back together behind you.  When you lose an LGP dozer, it is just a tad wet.

Wudman 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: mike_belben on December 20, 2018, 05:56:33 PM
Oh dang
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Southside on December 20, 2018, 06:15:03 PM
Back in the 90's I saw a CTL processor that broke one track through ground in a bog, the operator was smart, called for the forwarder to hook onto him to pull him back, well that resulted in the other track breaking through, it only got worse from there until the only thing above ground level was the head.  Excavated a gigantic hole around the machine and cribbed trailer load after trailer load of tree length wood under it to make a mat.  Things were not going well and there was talk of leaving the machine and salvaging the head.  Of course by now the starter went and she was a dead anchor.  Took four or five days but the crew managed to get the machine out, in the end it only needed a starter and a planetary rebuilt.   
Title: Re: rain
Post by: ehp on December 25, 2018, 08:02:52 PM
we got another 2 1/2 inches of rain couple nights ago and now were to get a pile again thurs and Friday , its to be 50 F on Friday here , yep its been a cold cold winter so far .
Title: Re: rain
Post by: GAB on December 25, 2018, 08:26:09 PM
Quote from: Wudman on December 20, 2018, 05:21:27 PM
Some days you just need to stay at home:


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/2018073095110108.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1545145981)



These two were trying to get to the cutter that was buried.  You can run on sand until it is totally saturated......then it craps out too.  At least there are no ruts.  I just runs back together behind you.  When you lose an LGP dozer, it is just a tad wet.

Wudman
I was once told to accent the positive - in this case you know where your toys are.
Gerald
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on December 25, 2018, 09:07:04 PM
Quote from: GAB on December 25, 2018, 08:26:09 PM
Quote from: Wudman on December 20, 2018, 05:21:27 PM
Some days you just need to stay at home:


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/2018073095110108.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1545145981)



These two were trying to get to the cutter that was buried.  You can run on sand until it is totally saturated......then it craps out too.  At least there are no ruts.  I just runs back together behind you.  When you lose an LGP dozer, it is just a tad wet.

Wudman
I was once told to accent the positive - in this case you know where your toys are.
Gerald
Got a laugh from your positive outlook!  Thanks from a wet Virginian.  @wudman I guess those were stuck earlier this year.  What a year.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Wudman on December 26, 2018, 09:56:52 AM
Yep.  Just before our first killing frost.  That would have happened when you pulled off the blacktop today.  More coming this weekend.

Wudman
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Brian w on December 28, 2018, 03:56:40 PM
Anyone know how to get one of those reality shows. I want to call mine logging for no profit. Or maybe wishing I could work.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on December 28, 2018, 04:24:27 PM
Funny thing is the mills are screaming for logs but prices have not budged, sometimes gone backwards.  No logs and still won't increase pricing.  Sigh.

That's not going to make us want to work hard next week.  That said, I've got to put 20MBF on the ground about every week and frankly that should be a cake walk, like every day.  With this rain it is a miserable experience.  I have 3 pairs of boots...I just rotate due to mud.  If it would get cold enough to stay frozen for 6 weeks we could make some progress.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: ehp on December 28, 2018, 04:31:14 PM
ya it started raining here just as I quit yesterday so about 5;30 pm and its still raining now pretty much 24 hours later , its quite the mess

Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on December 28, 2018, 04:34:26 PM
Rain in Ontario after Christmas?  Gesh what a mess.  Amex and the other guys up there still screaming for logs?  
Title: Re: rain
Post by: mike_belben on December 28, 2018, 08:32:50 PM
Theres water squirting out of the mole holes even on the high ground here now.  
Title: Re: rain
Post by: BargeMonkey on December 28, 2018, 09:48:31 PM
I'm just laying the job down and trying to stay off my skid roads, still kind of frozen in the woods, was 49 here today, we get cold again for a couple days it wont ne bad. 
 Every logger I know is going thru the same thing, guys have put out 1/2 the volume they usually do, a couple of the CTL guys i know have given up and parked stuff, things just aren't good. 
 Dry firewood and hay isnt going to exist here soon, another local guy with some beef cattle just threw the towel in because of hay, come February I bet people give horses away. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: PartTimeJack on December 28, 2018, 09:56:40 PM
The middle of November after harvest, I decided I would start with the small stuff, and firewood. Then work my way up to the bigger stuff as the ground froze. Well it's been raining so much since then that I still don't have all of the small trees drug out, and only three loads of firewood. 
I'm sure it will freeze up soon.  :embarassed:
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Southside on December 28, 2018, 10:05:53 PM
Another 1.25" today, more coming all next week, forget about getting into the woods, walked some yesterday - not a chance, and that was before this rain.  

No winter wheat planted around here at all, maybe some behind corn but even those fields are not green so the seed has probably rotted by now.  Cows are tearing everything up.    

Have a customer who sells ag chemicals and such, said they have guys going back around and taking wheat seed back from farmers because it never got planted.  If the whole Grand Solar Minimum theory is correct then this is only the beginning it seems.  
Title: Re: rain
Post by: ehp on December 29, 2018, 06:30:07 PM
ya I cut today but did not skid much, my landing is about 6 inches deep in water but I am on sand, problem is the water table is that high where I am, never before has it been that high to the people that live there and its to rain again Monday , Not far north of me its cold like 0-20 below F most mornings , here yesterday it was 54F , crazy
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on December 29, 2018, 07:32:35 PM
so I'm not the only one with water standing on the landing...misery loves company but I sure hope you get the cold you need and it freezes long and hard so you can get to work.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: BargeMonkey on December 29, 2018, 08:36:39 PM
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34634/49210795_1030896590453812_1768353630513004544_n.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1546133537)
 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Skeans1 on December 29, 2018, 10:48:08 PM
Quote from: nativewolf on December 29, 2018, 07:32:35 PM
so I'm not the only one with water standing on the landing...misery loves company but I sure hope you get the cold you need and it freezes long and hard so you can get to work.
Anyway to ditch the area? We are always battling water here lots of ditches and cat work quite often even along main trails.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: David-L on December 30, 2018, 07:01:02 AM
Misery loves Company, Never seen it this wet, paychecks are scarce. I sold my hay business to a younger guy in town and I swear he's aged considerably this year. I threw in the towel on the dry hay thing after many years of haying as my summer income. Now with weather like this I am questioning working the bush also. Like mom always said, if theres a will theres a way. I keep moving ahead.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: submarinesailor on December 30, 2018, 02:19:46 PM
The other day I heard on the radio that Washington National Airport has had a record year.  The normal rain fall in this area is about 36-42".  They stated the airport has had 67 INCHES!!!!! And that was before yesterday's rain.  And more coming tomorrow.

At my place down in Syria, VA, I used to be able to drive into my place using a ford to cross the Rose River.  Back in the second week of June, we had 7.3" in 6 days, that's including 2 big down-pours.  My ford is now somewhere between Fredricksburg and the Chesapeake Bay.   In 15+ years, this is the first time we haven't been able to cross with just making minor repairs.  Because of the amount of high water continuously flowing, it will be June, July or August before I can rebuild my crossing.  That's if this mess slows down. ::) ::) ::) ::)

Right now, I am just happy this ISN'T SNOW!!!!!!!!!

Also I wish we could send some of this out to you guys in the western states.

Bruce
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on December 30, 2018, 04:26:35 PM
Quote from: Skeans1 on December 29, 2018, 10:48:08 PM
Quote from: nativewolf on December 29, 2018, 07:32:35 PM
so I'm not the only one with water standing on the landing...misery loves company but I sure hope you get the cold you need and it freezes long and hard so you can get to work.
Anyway to ditch the area? We are always battling water here lots of ditches and cat work quite often even along main trails.
@skeans1 Really appreciate all the suggestions and I think this is one that we'll have to think more about.  It will fall into the general realm of planning and prep but doing more excavator work on trails might be in the works.  Might have to think about buying a small one, that blade runner is looking better and better.  
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Old Greenhorn on December 30, 2018, 05:14:47 PM
My gosh, we have had SO much rain since mid-july that I think kids are going to start being born with webbed feet. I have spent almost as much time fixing roads, putting in waterbars, or dropping gravel (to watch it was away a week later) as I have been doing actual work. The upside is, when we come through this, our little plot will have a much more resilient drainage system than it ever did before. My empathy goes out to those depending on better weather for their paycheck. This has to be a very lean year.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: BargeMonkey on December 30, 2018, 07:33:16 PM
Went to the woods today, its BAD. Not making alot of mud just so much standing water. So close to being done theres no stopping now. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on December 30, 2018, 07:37:39 PM
I am chomping at the bit to get back to the woods, sold 6 walnuts today for 2500 each but need to get them down and of course, landowner needs to get paid quite a bit.  Still...so *DanG wet not sure how to skid em out.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Kwill on December 30, 2018, 07:44:22 PM
100 percent chance of rain here for overnight and most of tommorow. It's delaying me getting started on my sawmill shed :(
Title: Re: rain
Post by: BargeMonkey on December 30, 2018, 07:51:06 PM
I've been doing my best to avoid bombing this job out, landowners very good about it. Ground just wont freeze, so much water I'm just fighting it. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34634/20181228_161248.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1546217032)
 
Cant get the water off the trails, edges of ruts are frozen, just ride the rail all the way out. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34634/20181227_163518.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1546217137)
 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on December 30, 2018, 07:54:22 PM
@BargeMonkey (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24634) believe it or not that looks better than some of our sites.  I've just given up on 1 trail and we'll have to dump loads of top soil to fix it.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: BargeMonkey on December 30, 2018, 08:03:46 PM
Quote from: nativewolf on December 30, 2018, 07:54:22 PM
@BargeMonkey (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24634) believe it or not that looks better than some of our sites.  I've just given up on 1 trail and we'll have to dump loads of top soil to fix it.
I've got a couple trails I can barely get thru empty, normally I would have packed up and went to a other job and came back good weather, just not enough wood left to do it. I hate beating on iron, every time I think I'm close I throw another 3-400 on the ground 🤣
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Skeans1 on December 30, 2018, 08:49:42 PM
Quote from: nativewolf on December 30, 2018, 04:26:35 PM
Quote from: Skeans1 on December 29, 2018, 10:48:08 PM
Quote from: nativewolf on December 29, 2018, 07:32:35 PM
so I'm not the only one with water standing on the landing...misery loves company but I sure hope you get the cold you need and it freezes long and hard so you can get to work.
Anyway to ditch the area? We are always battling water here lots of ditches and cat work quite often even along main trails.
@skeans1 Really appreciate all the suggestions and I think this is one that we'll have to think more about.  It will fall into the general realm of planning and prep but doing more excavator work on trails might be in the works.  Might have to think about buying a small one, that blade runner is looking better and better.  
Honestly most of the time I use our d4 grapple cat tilt the blade and angle it cut a ditch then a water bar.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: ehp on December 31, 2018, 03:57:15 PM
cut yesterday, sat and till about noon today as its pouring out again
Title: Re: rain
Post by: mike_belben on December 31, 2018, 04:46:48 PM
Its been half to 1" of rain every other day for about as long as i can recall at this point.  Hard to be in the seasoned dry wood business when its 63 and pouring all the time. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on December 31, 2018, 09:33:43 PM
Big rain records from wunderground reporting.

Mt Mitchell NC set all time high rainfall for any location east of pacific coast  with about 140".  Wilmington NC had broken all time high record rainfall....even if you take out Florence all told over 102".  Most of the rest of us are between 55-75" from Iowa to Deleware and from SC to Maine.  What a year.  Towns and cities breaking rainfall records were too numerous to count. 

Us northern VA folks had a pedestrian 65-70".  Another .36 today to help matters and formally close out wettest year in VAs history.

Mt Mitchell is a treat if you have never been, wonderful remnant spruce fir ecosystem in the south, highest point east of rockies. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Kwill on December 31, 2018, 10:03:10 PM
We got a little over 1\2 overnight. More expected Thursday and friday ::)
Title: Re: rain
Post by: moodnacreek on December 31, 2018, 10:06:37 PM
Southern New York has not had a drought since hurricane Floyd, 22 years ago. [ Northern N.Y. had a dry summer this year]  The walnut logs that came in this year have 3" sap ring. Powder post beetles have established in the drying piles. The tomato plants put out once and die. Brush grows faster than I have ever seen. It has been wet since mid summer, the water table is constantly at ground level.  Will log prices go up? There has to be something positive.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: stavebuyer on January 01, 2019, 03:54:51 AM
Quote from: moodnacreek on December 31, 2018, 10:06:37 PM
Southern New York has not had a drought since hurricane Floyd, 22 years ago. [ Northern N.Y. had a dry summer this year]  The walnut logs that came in this year have 3" sap ring. Powder post beetles have established in the drying piles. The tomato plants put out once and die. Brush grows faster than I have ever seen. It has been wet since mid summer, the water table is constantly at ground level.  Will log prices go up? There has to be something positive.
The air filters on most of my equipment look like new lol
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Old Greenhorn on January 01, 2019, 09:27:54 AM
We got another couple of inches overnight here in the central Catskills, now high wind warnings for the day and I am watching 70' x 22DBH maples swing back and forth like blades of grass in a summer breeze (I find if you flavor your misery with poetry, it goes down easier). I have been shut in sick now for 5 days and was determined to get out in the woods for a walk today. It looks like doing that by itself may require PPE. There are calling for 45 MPH gusts, and I think we already hit that. Happy New Year.  ;D
Title: Re: rain
Post by: ehp on January 01, 2019, 06:39:41 PM
ya we got 1 1/2 to 2 inches last night a wind , I waited till lunch and went cutting . Its wet but I still got a truck load out today so Im hoping to see a log truck or 2 or maybe 3 show up tomorrow morning , Can only hope so
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Wudman on January 10, 2019, 07:53:56 PM
I've been playing this game for 30 years.  Last week was the worst ground conditions I have ever seen in the Piedmont of Virginia.  On the upside, I learned a new trick.  I had a crew working about a mile off the highway down an old CCC Road.  They were spotting trailers about 1/4 mile off the highway and we had the road rocked fairly well to that point.  This Piedmont red clay sticks to everything.  It will track down the highway for a mile.  Check out this trick to keep mud from building up between the duals on the trailer wheels.  They had stretched a log chain between the tires to keep mud from building up.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20190108_135451.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547166261)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20190108_135435.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547166352)


It was doing a great job of keeping mud from building up between the tires.

VDOT and the Virginia State Police don't care much for mud in the highway.  We had a full time man sitting at the highway to keep things clean.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20190108_140339.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547166485)


The road had been rocked.  Small stone was placed on top of 3" material as there were two houses down the road.  Passenger cars don't like the big stuff much.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20190108_140302.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547166661)


This is a shot of the state highway.  We take a lot of precautions to keep the highway clean.  It's good stewardship and good business.  I have built pretty good relationships through the years with the neighbors by taking good care of common roads.  A load of rock is the cheapest good will you can buy.......and the men in grey drive on by.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20190108_140312.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547166908)
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Southside on January 10, 2019, 08:14:55 PM
I don't think I have seen anyone keep it that clean Wudman, great job.

I spent today fixing and grading my internal roads, as best could be done with partial mud, hoping they will dry more today and tomorrow so I can re grade them just in time for this weekends mess to arrive. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Wudman on January 10, 2019, 09:11:09 PM
One of my logging crews and my main road crew is running a vibratory roller on their job.  It is one of the best pieces of equipment in the woods.  If you can get it to start drying you can pack it.  It stretches the rock budget too.

Wudman
Title: Re: rain
Post by: mike_belben on January 10, 2019, 09:52:09 PM
What i really hate is how well the clay on a tire will pick the fines off my driveway then throw em at my back windows later on. 

Its been a dry and sunny week with a good bit of wind and you can really tell thats helped dry things.  Over a dozen pulp trucks came off the mountain while i climbed it yesterday.  Just as many today. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on January 11, 2019, 08:45:18 AM
Great tips and thanks to wudman for the pictures.  That's better than us for sure but we haul on county gravel roads for a mile or so before pavement.  I've been wondering how to keep paved roads clean when we do an entrance onto pavement.  

Our county roads don't look 1/2 as nice as the roads you are showing.  In fact, some of them are treacherous with improper ditching causing road washouts.  

What's the costs to you from doing the rock?  In my area it seems that it would be a very decent 5 figure amount.    
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Wudman on January 11, 2019, 10:09:28 AM
Quote from: nativewolf on January 11, 2019, 08:45:18 AM
What's the costs to you from doing the rock?  In my area it seems that it would be a very decent 5 figure amount.    
Yes it is.  My rock cost has gone up significantly in recent years.  Several of the big companies have bought the small private pits I was pulling from and literally doubled the price.  My stone price for #3 is $15.50 to $19.50 / ton for material only.  The freight is on top of that.  I spend just north of $800,000 per year for road maintenance across about 80,000 acres of dirt.  That's in the neighborhood of 10% of timber sale revenue.  I'll spend about $7500 / mile for road stabilization (dozer, rock, seed, lime, fertilizer, mulch) following a timber sale close out.  The benefit to that......I don't have to touch one until I'm ready to thin in 15 years.  The money spent on the front end carries through the rotation.  As an added benefit, my customers know that they have a good road system to access sales.  I'll cover (or sometimes a 50/50 split) rock cost during operations to keep a crew from top cutting a road.  My larger crews have their own dump, so they cover the freight.  With my normal customers, they can reallocate the rock cost back into my stumpage......so it is a wash for my clients, but a benefit to the environment, aesthetics, and public relations.  In addition, if there is a problem, I have developed exceptional relationships with DOF.  I get the phone call instead of the paperwork.  That impacts my personal compensation.
Wudman 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Skeans1 on January 11, 2019, 08:19:36 PM
Are you guys pit running for a base then putting crushed on top? That's typically what you'll find out here for a road system, on some of the bigger systems that stretch 50+ miles you'll see pit every few miles off them for repair.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Wudman on January 11, 2019, 08:41:33 PM
We are pulling from commercial pits scattered across the country side.  A 20 mile haul is not unusual for me.  On logging roads, I'll use 3" material (or bigger in problem areas).  It stands up well in wet weather, but its fairly rough for passenger vehicle travel.  This road served as the driveway for two residences.  We top-dressed the larger stone with #57 crushed stone (1/2 inch sized material) to keep the residents happy. 

Wudman 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: mike_belben on January 12, 2019, 09:12:21 AM
Well i wish you did the haul road i drove in on yesterday!
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Ron Scott on January 12, 2019, 05:56:29 PM
If there is ever going to be a complaint about a timber harvest it is usually about the care not given to the road system serving it.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Skeans1 on January 13, 2019, 07:07:07 AM
Quote from: Wudman on January 11, 2019, 08:41:33 PM
We are pulling from commercial pits scattered across the country side.  A 20 mile haul is not unusual for me.  On logging roads, I'll use 3" material (or bigger in problem areas).  It stands up well in wet weather, but its fairly rough for passenger vehicle travel.  This road served as the driveway for two residences.  We top-dressed the larger stone with #57 crushed stone (1/2 inch sized material) to keep the residents happy.

Wudman
3" minus is normally a topping or crushed rock put on out here with a light coat of 3/4 maybe. One thing I've noticed is hauling off of our these road where there's the old base with the 3" as the top rock they aren't as soft or as pushy vs the new 3/4" roads. One of our biggest issues with winter time work is hauling out near creeks with all the state regs we can't have muddy water entering the creeks, so it's always do road work here.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: mike_belben on January 13, 2019, 09:03:55 AM
That can be a tall order sometimes, keeping the runoff clear.  On my own creek crossing all i could think of was to push the low spot back away from the creek by making a different low about 10 feet back.  I probably scraped down 3ft and piled that dirt ontop the culvert which made a settling pool just before it in the middle of the road. Then ditched that to a stump hole.  It seems to percolate through the root system back into the creek.  Water flows out under the bank downstream a little foggy at times but not too bad. I need a few feet of shotrock in the settling pool before it becomes a car road. Its only an issue during downpours for half a day.  Not in daily use until i build the house back there. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on January 13, 2019, 10:11:48 AM
@Wudman (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=624) @Skeans1 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=37446) Do either of you ever put matting down for temporary roads.  Someone is offering quite a bunch in southern ohio, about a 200 mile drive but for 10 semi loads I'd have quite the stash of matting.  This is not crane matting but pipeline matting, basically laminated 2" materials into a mat 8' x 14' or 20'.  I could move them around with a forwarder and get them into place.  

My problem is I have a temporary project road to build across a field with some slope and then to back of project, a mile total.  Field & forest is used for fox hunts and I need to restore after use.  The timber net is about 1.2-2 million bdft of White & Red Oak, Walnut, Yellow Poplar and a smattering of other species (true selective harvest with 50% removal).  Probably going to average $1+/bdft with 50% going to landowner(s). The trick is leaving the field/woodlots in good condition.  I can't build a permanent road with 3" gravel, well I could build a road and then have to remove the stone and regrade and plant.  I think road costs with stone would take 6 figures to put it in, take out, and restore.  So, I've been looking at timber mats/pipeline mats, crane mats, laminated mats.  Thought about making my own mats, etc.  

To top this off we just got our first decent snow of the year, 4-6" and it will thaw in 2 days and the mud will be epic.  Good time to have wet weather options.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Skeans1 on January 13, 2019, 10:20:07 AM
Part of logging out here is having the roads in for truck it's an expense but it's something that's permanently there for future harvest and emergency services fire ect. Some jobs like that we'll wait till summer just that simple especially if the land owner won't rock with a good possibility of the private wood getting shut off to the mills during that time.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on January 13, 2019, 10:52:46 AM
Quote from: Skeans1 on January 13, 2019, 10:20:07 AM
Part of logging out here is having the roads in for truck it's an expense but it's something that's permanently there for future harvest and emergency services fire ect. Some jobs like that we'll wait till summer just that simple especially if the land owner won't rock with a good possibility of the private wood getting shut off to the mills during that time.
Wish we could wait til dry weather.  The white oak just can't be cut in summer, has to be cut and shipped by may.  
So the question is...do people go up/down slopes on timber mats?  
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Skeans1 on January 13, 2019, 11:17:25 AM
We run on brush all the time even on steep slopes, the haul roads or truck roads are all rock they have to be to handle the weight of the trucks and the abuse of them. After we're done in about 10 years they come back to finish up the hair cut where it can be 10 trucks or more a day running multiple loads a day. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Southside on January 13, 2019, 11:24:49 AM
What about using geotech as a bottom layer?  I have never seen it pulled back up but have seen roads built through cedar bogs that will never freeze, put about 8" of shale on top of it and drive loaded semi's over it all day long.  It is an odd feeling when you watch the whole road surface wave like the ocean, but I never saw it fail and never saw a truck get stuck. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: mike_belben on January 13, 2019, 02:03:13 PM
Get those mats as quick as you can wyatt.  Youll never get rock back up out of clay after running semis on it without fabric. youll have $500 per every 300feet in fabric thatll be destroyed when you pull chocks.  The rock will be like $400 every 80 feet then trucking it again on the way out, not to mention how bad the loader will chew things up getting at the side of the truck doing removal hauls. And then youll be looking at big money for topsoil seed and straw.  Its a bad idea.


Get the mats, if the trucks are sideslipping in the bad spots or frozen rain, just nail down an edge made from slabwood then have your mexicans use a wheelbarrow to dump some crushed stone along the tread path.  Itll bite into the tire and wood.  Just rake it around as needed and scoop it up when you leave.  You can always find a construction company happy to provide storage for your mats in exchange for usage.  And you can recoupe all your $ on selling the mats when you retire.  Im sure you can sub out the job of laying mat to a midi-excavator with thumb if necessary.

Title: Re: rain
Post by: Wudman on January 13, 2019, 02:39:09 PM
The job that I referenced in the picture had about 25 two-ply mats laid across a (I would say wet area, but that is repetitious) booger hole.  The trick with mats is to put them down before you need them.  On crap ground they move around and then you start getting tie rods, fuel tanks, fuel lines, brake lines, etc.  On permanent roads, I use geotextile fabric on poor ground.  It is money well spent.

The two ply mats don't last very well.  In poor ground, they'll start breaking up after a handful of uses.  The 3 ply mats are much more durable, but become cost prohibitive in a hurry.  Chase behind Dominion Power for a bit.  They have a ridiculous number of mats sitting around following their projects.  You can get them at a fairly reasonable rate.  On slope, mats can be tricky to navigate.  The red mud works up through them and they become slick as snot.  I have put sand over top of them at times to keep some traction.  Then they become more difficult to recover.

Wudman
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on January 13, 2019, 03:20:50 PM
Quote from: mike_belben on January 13, 2019, 02:03:13 PM
Get those mats as quick as you can wyatt.  Youll never get rock back up out of clay after running semis on it without fabric. youll have $500 per every 300feet in fabric thatll be destroyed when you pull chocks.  The rock will be like $400 every 80 feet then trucking it again on the way out, not to mention how bad the loader will chew things up getting at the side of the truck doing removal hauls. And then youll be looking at big money for topsoil seed and straw.  Its a bad idea.


Get the mats, if the trucks are sideslipping in the bad spots or frozen rain, just nail down an edge made from slabwood then have your mexicans use a wheelbarrow to dump some crushed stone along the tread path.  Itll bite into the tire and wood.  Just rake it around as needed and scoop it up when you leave.  You can always find a construction company happy to provide storage for your mats in exchange for usage.  And you can recoupe all your $ on selling the mats when you retire.  Im sure you can sub out the job of laying mat to a midi-excavator with thumb if necessary.
So get the mats but make sure they are 3 ply mats.  I could see making stakes to keep them from sliding.  I can also see putting a layer of small stone on top to give traction.  In many places I'll be running a forwarder with tracks over them but sometimes it would be trucks getting to landing.  Fortunately I have a small farm and can store them and the forwarder crane should be able to help get them positioned and moved.  I hope.  
Ok, guess I better go take a look at them.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on January 13, 2019, 03:21:23 PM
Quote from: Wudman on January 13, 2019, 02:39:09 PM
The job that I referenced in the picture had about 25 two-ply mats laid across a (I would say wet area, but that is repetitious) booger hole.  The trick with mats is to put them down before you need them.  On crap ground they move around and then you start getting tie rods, fuel tanks, fuel lines, brake lines, etc.  On permanent roads, I use geotextile fabric on poor ground.  It is money well spent.

The two ply mats don't last very well.  In poor ground, they'll start breaking up after a handful of uses.  The 3 ply mats are much more durable, but become cost prohibitive in a hurry.  Chase behind Dominion Power for a bit.  They have a ridiculous number of mats sitting around following their projects.  You can get them at a fairly reasonable rate.  On slope, mats can be tricky to navigate.  The red mud works up through them and they become slick as snot.  I have put sand over top of them at times to keep some traction.  Then they become more difficult to recover.

Wudman
Thanks for the tip on 2vs3 ply mats.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Wudman on January 13, 2019, 03:58:18 PM
Not many logging crews are running 3 ply mats.  They get to be pretty costly.  I do see a lot of them on the right of way jobs. 

Wudman
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Skeans1 on January 13, 2019, 04:30:08 PM
The biggest thing is to keep the forwarder and harvester off the roads in the wet season is a huge help. Myself I try to cut some sort of frontage system that connects the trails with small landings in the ditch when possible to help minimize mudding out.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Wudman on January 17, 2019, 07:16:30 PM
Well.....it's raining again.  In the typical winter, we are looking for wood near the highway that can be accessed with minimal road work.  This winter, we are looking for any ground that has a prayer of standing up and sinking money into roads to try and keep working.  We opened two new sales this week.  I'll show you a bit of what we are doing.

This tract is in Amelia County, VA.  We are about 1.6 miles off the paved road.  To this point we have hauled about 400 tons of #1 stone (5-6" material) and 40 tons of #57 crushed gravel.  I have about a half a dozen homes along the access that I need to protect.  That's where the crushed gravel comes into play.  I have rocked this road a couple of times in the last 20 years.  The property I manage lays behind the last home.  We switched to the big stuff at the property line.  Trucks are coming and going without assistance.  I'm standing on a creek crossing looking upslope.  At this point, I have just north of $10,000 in rock accessing a $480,000 sale.  There is an additional $1 million plus in timber that will come out this same road.  For me, it is an investment in the future harvests.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20190117_134748.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547768082)


My hardhat is on the ground for reference.  This is fairly big material, but will support a loaded truck.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20190117_135043.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547766398)


The insurance policy is sitting at the gate. 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20190117_135336.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547766375)


Below is the stand we are cutting.  It is a 35 year old Loblolly pine plantation.  The sort in the foreground is marine grade pilings.  They range in length from 21 - 37 feet long.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20190117_133711.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547766441)


The truck is being loaded with 12 and 16 foot cut to length pine logs.  They are merchandised to 8" on the small end.  These are headed to a mill with a primary product of 5/4 radial edge decking.  That is my bread and butter market. 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20190117_133751.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547766430)


Behind the loader are pulp tops and treelength pine pulpwood.  That material is farmed to WestRock, Georgia-Pacific, and International Paper for the most part.  See that road....no ruts....that is why we are 1.6 miles off the highway.  It's the best ground I could find.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20190117_133854.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547766423)


The sale below is in Cumberland County, VA.  It actually has road frontage on a state maintained gravel road.  Unfortunately, the ground conditions at the roadside are not conducive to working.  The best ground on the sale is .5 miles off the highway.  We have also rocked this road heavily.  This is a creek crossing that had poor ground.  We rocked across it and then placed 10x12 solid laminated mats across this bottom.  There are 15 of them spanning about 150 feet.  These mats were about $7500 new and you can see that they are approaching the end of their life.  On the far end, some are starting to break up.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20190117_144225.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547766374)


A couple of valuable pieces of equipment are shown below.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20190117_144509.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547766344)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20190117_144527.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547766341)


Dozer tracks will chew a road up running up and down it.  The grader doesn't cause the same damage.  With a few days of sunshine, you can lightly grade the road and roll it with the vibratory roller.  The roller is one of the most valuable pieces of equipment we utilize.  It helps to stretch the rock budget.  


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20190117_144833.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547766315)


One this sale we are merchandising tree length pine logs, fence posts, and pine pulpwood.  Note that we are sitting on mats at the landing.  That old R Model Mack is spotting trailers.  Those things are bullet proof.  They are running heavy lugged tires on the drive axles.  They help with locomotion in this red clay.  At one time, we ran chains on these trucks, but axles and rear ends took a beating.  Those lugs have enough give to protect the drivetrain, but still get the job done.  I'm looking forward to some sunshine.

Wudman

  
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Southside on January 17, 2019, 08:32:28 PM
You are doing an amazing job there. I do think the ground conditions are worse this week after the last storm than they have been to date. The couple little freeze / thaw cycles sure didn't help either. 

About the time you were typing this I had a customer pull in with some White Oak logs to be custom sawn. His 4WD was broken, he made it down the hill on his own....

More rain this weekend.  >:(
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Skeans1 on January 17, 2019, 11:14:49 PM
That's different I don't think I've ever seen a roller used out here, most of the time the guys use a 6 or bigger cat and a 200 sized shovel to walk in the roads with most of the shovels at 60k or more. you want to see a road get tore up fast you should look up the grouser extensions they've put on just about every leveling machine out here, 10" single bars do a great job roto tilling the rock up or a forwarder can do a number on a road really quick. If I remember I'll get some pictures of what we run on all the time.

Are you guys crowning the roads with ditches on each side for drainage?
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Southside on January 17, 2019, 11:30:30 PM
It's different here, you never see crowned roads, the road is almost always the low spot, not by design but more how the clay just keeps on compacting everytime it gets wet.  I have two old County roads that are on two sides of our farm, the banks on one are 20' high on the sides, almost straight up.  These have not been used since the 1940's and have 30" DBH Poplar growing in them but they are the old road.  Growing up in far northern Maine we had shale for road building - absolutely the best road you would ever have.  Could get two inches of rain in an hour and a minute after it stopped raining the road was dry and getting dusty.  Yes, they got torn up by grousers and chains on equipment like you said, but grade them and they were flat as can be, run 55 MPH no problem, well sort of.  The only problem would be if they were just graded and then anything over 30 MPH and you would cut the sidewalls of your tires as that fresh shale was sharp, but I would trade that for the mess we have here.    
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Skeans1 on January 17, 2019, 11:35:38 PM
It's interesting how different areas require different things, even if our roads are the low spots we still have to crown the center with ditches normally start at 5' deep makes for going into a new job interesting. They just redid the lower road below my job I'll get some pictures of it and of the ditch sizes they get nuts same with the amount of cross drains required anymore.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: mike_belben on January 18, 2019, 06:37:22 AM
The roads ive been on were just basic dozer work and angle blade ditching.  The ground is so rolly ontop the plateau that drainage is pretty good.  Where the road is the low spot is obviously a lake but we just drive through. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Wudman on January 18, 2019, 09:49:31 AM
I crown and wing ditch my roads upon tract close-out, but these are not the roads of the West Coast.  Most of these are single track so a crown is 6" higher in the middle than the ditch line.  We will have water bars or turn outs as appropriate.  I don't want water moving more than 100 feet or so down the ditch line.  For the most part, our legacy roads run the ridge line when possible.  We do have the "entrenched roads" that have been used for the last 400 years.  On those, either rock heavily, or move over and start over.  Many of the contractors here are running dropped deck thinning trailers.  Their landing gear is so low to the ground that water bars and crowned roads have to be graded down to traverse.  It is a "necessary evil".  One thing I hate is to start cutting roads.  You can skim the top and find hard clay beneath, but you will destroy a roadbed.  I have to work with new contractors to acclimate them to my desires.  When I tell them that I have money appropriated for rock, I get a surprised look on the front end.  After a few tracks, they understand.  I sold one lump sum about 5 years ago that was 3.5 miles down a company road.  I had it prepared the summer before the sale.  The logger told me it was just like working on the roadside.  He had no problems.

On my first day of Road Location class back in college, my Professor, a retired industry guy, said there were three criteria to a good road.

1. Drainage
2. Drainage
3. Drainage

After 30 years in the business, I have added a 4th to the list.

4.  Sunshine

I daylight roads.  Sunshine is cheaper than rock.  Unfortunately, it has been in short supply for the last 18 months.

Wudman
Title: Re: rain
Post by: ehp on February 04, 2019, 04:49:40 PM
last week we were frozen with -30 to -40 temps, today it set a record for the hottest temp ever on this date , about 45 above . What a mess and its to rain most of the night tonight , about half of the fields are under water and so are the bush lots . Wed its to be freezing rain whole day then rain Thursday . Friday its to be back to freezing again
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on February 04, 2019, 06:15:54 PM
Quote from: ehp on February 04, 2019, 04:49:40 PM
last week we were frozen with -30 to -40 temps, today it set a record for the hottest temp ever on this date , about 45 above . What a mess and its to rain most of the night tonight , about half of the fields are under water and so are the bush lots . Wed its to be freezing rain whole day then rain Thursday . Friday its to be back to freezing again
I hear you, 62F here in Northern VA and 5 days ago it was about 0.  The ice under the top 1" of soil makes any vehicle movement ...challenging.  Now if we get that same rain on Wed it will be time to take a break for a day or two.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: ehp on February 04, 2019, 10:06:55 PM
been raining hard here for 4 hours or so, we got about 2 feet of frost in the ground so water has no where to go
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Old Greenhorn on February 04, 2019, 10:55:50 PM
MAN! I can't think of much of anything that could be more miserable or harder to work with than that. I hope you guys get some relief soon, that's just unworkable.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: luvmexfood on February 04, 2019, 11:04:14 PM
Yep. Today I thought it was dry enough to get through a gate with my p/u on a slight hill side with my trailer behind me. Ah what the heck. I needed to replace that fence post anyway.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: brianJ on February 05, 2019, 01:43:08 AM
What you meant was opportunity to make a wider gate. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: thecfarm on February 05, 2019, 06:27:13 AM
Mats? Your mats look diffeant than the mats around here. I see what you mean about 2-3 ply now. The mats that I see are about a foot through. Use to be hemlock,but I sold some maple for swamp mats. Most time not trucked on. But the power company went through a big expansion with power lines  and they used some mats!!! :o 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: mike_belben on February 05, 2019, 07:23:18 AM
Yeah a crane mat to me is a bunch of tie cants drawbarred into a pack of hot dogs. 
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on February 05, 2019, 08:49:17 AM
Right, crane mats are basically cants bolted together.  Timber Mats or Laminated Mats are rough cut 5/4 or something bolted together or nailed together in layers perp to each other.  These sorts of mats are used to make roads.  It's the mat we are buying, about 10 tractor trailer loads will do it I guess.  
Title: Re: rain
Post by: mike_belben on February 05, 2019, 08:52:45 AM
How do they interlock the laminated panels?
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Wudman on February 05, 2019, 01:25:30 PM
Quote from: mike_belben on February 05, 2019, 08:52:45 AM
How do they interlock the laminated panels?
Carriage bolts
Title: Re: rain
Post by: ehp on February 05, 2019, 04:49:05 PM
now were to get 24 to 26 hours of freezing rain
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Brian w on February 06, 2019, 10:05:11 AM
Well here we go again worked Saturday and Monday and now ground is thawed out its going to be 60 degrees today and up to 3 inches of rain coming. 60 degrees in Ohio in February unheard of its suppose to be more around 20.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: ehp on February 15, 2019, 11:02:05 AM
 in last 12 days here it has rained over freezing rain 7 of those days and real high winds , lots of days around 60 mph or abit more , She is a lake around here right now
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Wudman on January 28, 2020, 04:57:32 PM
Well, we are wet once again.  Here are a couple of pictures from the Ramble Road Tract in Halifax County, VA.  It is not often that you see this type of equipment in the Piedmont of Virginia.  The logger has added duals to the front of his feller buncher for added flotation.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20200116_163659.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1580248400)


This skidder is running on 66x43 inch rubber.  Once again, not something you see often here in the rolling hills.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20200116_163731.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1580246631)


Our markets are poor.  It's wet.  I'm looking forward to some warmer weather.  I'll eat those words come July.

Wudman
Title: Re: rain
Post by: ehp on January 28, 2020, 05:55:03 PM
we just had 4 days of rain, this morning it was freezing rain
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Wudman on February 14, 2020, 09:31:36 AM
Should have known better......I was doing recon on a new property last week.  The road system was a bit lacking in maintenance.  In the same line of the "last log of the day" this was the last stop of the day.  I was coming down the hill from the rear of the picture and straddling the ruts.  The front wheels decided to follow the turnout downhill.  I stopped and attempted to back up.....no go.  Couldn't move out of my tracks.  Tried to move forward and could rock it just a tad.  Reverse and dropped solidly into the ruts......bottomed out.  Of course it is 4:00 o'clock on a Friday afternoon and I am 100 miles from home on an unfamiliar property.  Off course there is not a rock to be found.  After about 30 minutes of digging, brushing, and poling I could move a little bit.  Managed to come out forward and then had to get turned around and get back through it.  Why haven't I put the winch on this new pickup?  Such is life.......Maybe I need to install it.  I'm tired of rain. 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20200204_160217.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1581689922)


Wudman
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Ed_K on February 15, 2020, 05:40:21 AM
 I am also tired of rain. Every snow storm ends with rain. 2nd to last storm we got 7" after the rain it was 2" last storm 4" and rained down to 1". With 2° this morning the yard is glare ice :(.
Title: Re: rain
Post by: nativewolf on February 15, 2020, 10:59:07 AM
Quote from: Wudman on February 14, 2020, 09:31:36 AM
Should have known better......I was doing recon on a new property last week.  The road system was a bit lacking in maintenance.  In the same line of the "last log of the day" this was the last stop of the day.  I was coming down the hill from the rear of the picture and straddling the ruts.  The front wheels decided to follow the turnout downhill.  I stopped and attempted to back up.....no go.  Couldn't move out of my tracks.  Tried to move forward and could rock it just a tad.  Reverse and dropped solidly into the ruts......bottomed out.  Of course it is 4:00 o'clock on a Friday afternoon and I am 100 miles from home on an unfamiliar property.  Off course there is not a rock to be found.  After about 30 minutes of digging, brushing, and poling I could move a little bit.  Managed to come out forward and then had to get turned around and get back through it.  Why haven't I put the winch on this new pickup?  Such is life.......Maybe I need to install it.  I'm tired of rain.  


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10624/20200204_160217.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1581689922)


Wudman
I just want to know why you were driving on my skid trails :D
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Jcald327 on February 16, 2020, 08:03:16 PM
We set near record rainfalls across the state last year, this year started off looking like more of the same, a lot of my mobile sites I cant get to, or at least really dont want to.  I'm fighting 3-5 rainy days, and 1 to 2 sunny but muddy days if I'm lucky.  Got logs on the ground all over I cant get to.  I'm more of a tree salvager than a havester, taking onesies and twosies from storm damage or tree services and what not, so my equipment isn't on par with the big stuff you guys are running, but I dont envy those whose livelihood is tied up in the muck.  I don't know that I'm going to risk my own livelihood being tied up in the same here in 4-6 months when I'm forced to make a career change.  
Title: Re: rain
Post by: Brian w on March 01, 2020, 10:01:12 PM
Here it is almost about 2 years since I started this topic, but I'm still fighting the same issue. Rain in southern Ohio you used to know what to expect summer, hot dry, winter , freezing cold and snow. Now it doesn't seem to matter hardly ever gets cold anymore, but seems to always rain. Last summer I seen corn fields, with corn 2 foot tall in July . Then a week later flooded with standing water n corn dieing. My family has been in the logging business for as long as I can remember,but I'm starting to think I'd be better off to just sell out and become a mountain man trapping and living off the land . Wife may not be as happy as I would though.