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Anyone with a new Central boiler Classic Edge Titanium series boiler yet?

Started by Logging logginglogging, June 05, 2017, 01:54:34 PM

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Logging logginglogging

Anyone have one of these new Titanium series Stainless boilers yet?

coxy

jmop but I would never buy a stainless steel stove I have heard lots of trouble with them cracking and not to many people can weld them  again jmop

go green

There is a misunderstanding about failures in titanium enhanced 409 stainless steel furnaces.  Those that appear to have cracked by a weld are actually corrosion next to the weld because of the failure to use corrosion inhibitor in the water.  When 409 stainless is welded, the metallurgy/alloy changes some next to the molten metal as the weld is applied.  If the correct inhibitor is used there will be no corrosion at all in the waterjacket  and the welding process will not create any problems.  When inhibitor is not used, the areas next to the weld will be the first to corrode.  This corrosion accelerates as the deposition of corrosion byproducts build over the corrosion cells. Several furnace manufacturers have experienced these issues and most now require a water sample to be submitted annually to help people understand the importance of maintaining the inhibitor.   Carbon steel furnaces that are operated without correct corrosion inhibitor will also corrode and many times the area next to the weld will corrode first.  Very few applications with waterjacketed boilers will give a good service life if the waterjacket is not properly taken care of by maintaining correct corrosion inhibitor levels and preventing biological contamination when adding new water to the system.  When water is added to the system you must be sure to heat the system up to at least 175 degrees and circulate the system for a few hours.  Adding new, cold water to a cold system many times will introduce bacterial/biological contamination that escalates over time if the system is not heated or treated to kill the bacterial condition.  A system with propylene glycol antifreeze is even more susceptible to biological issues.

coxy

the cracking I'm talking about is not in the weld its other places never seen it with my own eyes just people and welders talking about it

50 Acre Jim

Go Green, you sound very much like a Central Boiler distributor.  Maybe???
Go to work?  Probably Knott.  Because I cant.

snowstorm

dose central or any others use a zinc in the water jacket?? my taylor dose

boilerman101

Coxy, You are right and wrong. There are various grades of stainless steel. 304 or 316 stainless is a very hard and corrosion resistant material, but expands and contracts a great deal. These materials are prone to "spider web" cracking right in the middle of the metal and can cause extra stress on welds and joints, both resulting in a leaky furnace as you've referred to. While a 409 stainless has been used successfully for years by multiple outdoor wood furnace manufactures. It does not "move" as much and is still quite resistant to corrosion. The use of a corrosion inhibitor product is very important when using a 409 stainless or carbon steel material. Personally I think it is the best material choice for OWF longevity. As for Logging Logging guy, I've seen the changes made in that stainless Edge 750 over my 2010 Eclassic 2400 and think it looks like it is a great unit. Keep us posted.

Logging logginglogging

I will keep you posted. I have always taken care to use the correct amount of inhibitor. If Central states in the manual to submit water samples I will. I wonder if you can use too much inhibitor in a stainless boiler?

50 Acre Jim

Quote from: Logging logginglogging on June 09, 2017, 12:13:01 PM
I will keep you posted. I have always taken care to use the correct amount of inhibitor. If Central states in the manual to submit water samples I will.
I doubt you will see that happening as it would eliminate one of their main excuses for not honoring the warranty.   With all due respect to any Central Boiler resellers on the forum, I think we stand a better chance of finding extraterrestrials at Area 54 than we do of getting CB to stand behind their warrantee.  YMMV
Go to work?  Probably Knott.  Because I cant.

coxy


boilerman101

Numerous wood furnace companies have required annual water samples to be sent in annually. I'm surprised CB has not required it to be done til now. Was not required to do so on mine. I've been told that excessive water treatment won't hurt the steel but can be hard on plastic pump impellers, o-rings, component seals, etc. I've had a Classic and an E-Classic for 7 years and never had a warranty issue, not even a solenoid go bad. I'm a believer that with anything I own, my best warranty is how well I maintain and take care of something myself. I know a few fellows in my town that don't take care of anything and yet they scream the loudest every time they have a problem and it's always someone else's fault. Bottom line, I've had great luck with my CB's and recommend them and my dealer often, so I take the other side of this one.

go green

Boilerman has it correct about different series of stainless.  304 can be affected by Chloride in water and can fail from stress chloride corrosion cracking.  This can occur in the areas away from the welds and can look like spider web cracks.  There is very little one can do to repair if large areas have been affected by Chloride.  409 on the other hand does not have this kind of issue.  Boilerman is also correct about warranty and maintenance.  Every furnace will fail if not cared for, no mater which brand.  Most brands will last a long time if cared for correctly.  The maintenance is so easy if done each day and not left until problems arise.  Air channels, combustion air pipes in the firebox and other air delivery systems work quite well if ash and coal bed levels are not neglected and allowed to cover or completely block the incoming air or metal that makes the channel or pipe that is used for air delivery.  Once the ash/coal bed starts to cover or even partially cover those air delivery systems, it starts to work like a forge and the metal over heats and starts to fail.  When ash/coal beds are maintained properly the incoming air keeps the metal from overheating and when the furnace cycles off after reaching the operating temperatures then the coals cool down and do not over heat these types of air delivery systems and they will last a long time.  If you don't maintain correctly then expect to be welding the failed parts.   

gspren

  I know nothing about CB stoves but I do know metals. One of the problems when using any stainless for the firebox is that stainless is one of the worst metals at transferring heat, thus when the heat hits one area much harder than another that spot expands and flexes the metal which over time can fatigue it. A really good design can minimize that by not having hot spots. A nice thick copper plate would be ideal but who could afford it, carbon boiler plate falls between the copper and stainless on heat transfer plus it welds good which is why it's "boiler plate".
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

Logging logginglogging


Gary_C

Quote from: Logging logginglogging on June 15, 2017, 10:57:55 AM
Chloride in water ? Like city water or something?

In the food preparation business, a lot of stainless steel equipment is used and it has been found that concentrations of bleach (sodium hypochlorite) used to sanitize equipment will damage 304 stainless by chloride cracking. Now since 304 stainless is one of the cheapest grades, it is still used but in lower quality equipment.

And yes, city water is many times chlorinated as well as private water systems to kill bacterial iron.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Logging logginglogging

This boiler will be filled by a private well. no unnatural additives.

djonesp

I have this year. I have gone thru the instructions on how to light it and I cannot keep it burning continuously. The water reaches the set point and stops everything. It doesn't cool off fast enough to restart the fans.. any ideas?

boilerman101

I have had no problems with my Edge 750 and it does not go out. It burns through a normal burn cycle until until it hits a water set point of 185 and fan shuts off and and a new burn cycle won't begin until the water temp drops to 175 when a new cycle begins. In between cycles, there is an air pulse feature that pushes air into the firebox once every 30 minutes for 50 seconds to keep the coal bed alive. That frequency could be tightened up to happen every 15 or 20 minutes if needed, but I would not think that should be necessary if you have a good coal bed has been established and you load on top of some log remains at each loading. This procedure worked the same on my previous Eclassic 2400 model which I ran under extremely light heat load days in the fall and spring seasons.

petefrom bearswamp

I know nothing about the eclassic series.
My 05 classic has been mostly trouble free.
I had a leak at a stay pin about 5 or 6 years ago due to lousy maintenance of corrosion inhibitor.
Coxy told me if it failed it would be by the stay pin welds first.
None since but my fingers are crossed.
Also the temp controller went last year cost about 50 bucks to replace.
My well water is chlorinated, but has a system of chlorine removal filtration on it.
My biggest problem has been with occasional boiling when I not paying attention to my loading and I forgot to close the door once.
I do 2 medium size loadings a day about 8 am for an 8 to 9 hr burn and about 4 or 5 PM for a 16 hr burn.
My temps are 170 to 180.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

panolo

Quote from: djonesp on January 06, 2019, 10:00:48 PM
I have this year. I have gone thru the instructions on how to light it and I cannot keep it burning continuously. The water reaches the set point and stops everything. It doesn't cool off fast enough to restart the fans.. any ideas?
Make sure your pulse is coming on. You can adjust frequency and length of the pulse. Sometimes mine doesn't turn on for a few hours but the pulse keeps it going. It also is important to have some sort of coal bed built up. The coals that look like charcoal relight with just a spark. Even in my first year with wetter wood my stove had no problems on relight. 

djonesp

Quote from: panolo on January 07, 2019, 11:51:16 AM
Quote from: djonesp on January 06, 2019, 10:00:48 PM
I have this year. I have gone thru the instructions on how to light it and I cannot keep it burning continuously. The water reaches the set point and stops everything. It doesn't cool off fast enough to restart the fans.. any ideas?
Make sure your pulse is coming on. You can adjust frequency and length of the pulse. Sometimes mine doesn't turn on for a few hours but the pulse keeps it going. It also is important to have some sort of coal bed built up. The coals that look like charcoal relight with just a spark. Even in my first year with wetter wood my stove had no problems on relight.
How will I be able to tell if the pulse is coming on? I've tried adjusting in some last week, but still no luck.

mrcaptainbob

I installed a CB SCL 5648 in 09/04. It's been in constant use since. Well, almost. We kept it running for domestic hot water use in the summer, but the past two summers we shut the furnace down and used electric. The only 'repair' issues were for a new door solenoid and a new door seal. My wife keeps at least an annual check on the corrosion inhibitor properties. We scrupulously follow the directions on that.

panolo

Quote from: djonesp on January 07, 2019, 03:21:18 PM
Quote from: panolo on January 07, 2019, 11:51:16 AM
Quote from: djonesp on January 06, 2019, 10:00:48 PM
I have this year. I have gone thru the instructions on how to light it and I cannot keep it burning continuously. The water reaches the set point and stops everything. It doesn't cool off fast enough to restart the fans.. any ideas?
Make sure your pulse is coming on. You can adjust frequency and length of the pulse. Sometimes mine doesn't turn on for a few hours but the pulse keeps it going. It also is important to have some sort of coal bed built up. The coals that look like charcoal relight with just a spark. Even in my first year with wetter wood my stove had no problems on relight.
How will I be able to tell if the pulse is coming on? I've tried adjusting in some last week, but still no luck.
Do you have it hooked to wifi? Pretty easy to see if you look at the graph. Otherwise you have to time it and catch it when it is on pulse mode. 
If you have a low heat load and the unit is not calling for heat very often I would adjust my pulse air to a longer pulse length and a shorter time between pulses. If you have your manual it goes through the directions. If all else fails call your dealer. 

WI Fire

I bought a Central Boiler Titanium Stainless in 1998 0r 1999. I undersized it for my needs and sold it to my brother-in-law. It's never had a lick of problems, and yes, he does use the boiler treatment from central boiler. Central boiler went to the inner boiler of this material because of the reliability when properly treated.

No I am not a dealer. I have found that many problems associated with anything is based on misuse or misunderstanding by operators.

That being said, Central boiler, like any company has had issues but seems to strive to make improvements.

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