Tenon Cutting for Rustic Hickory Furniture

[jbasen]

After many years as a hobbyist making A&C furniture for our home, I have started creating rustic hickory furniture.  Our house is fairly rustic and my wife and I find the 2 styles mix very well.  So far, I've made 3 night stands and a footboard to match an old hickory headboard my wife and I found sitting in a thrift store.  To make my life easy I've been cutting the tenons for these projects using a selection of the Veritas tenon cutters.

My next project is to create a bunk bed to add some more capacity for guests in our house.  The logs I've chosen for the bed are significantly larger.  In their rough state they are 8' long, 3-1/2" in diameter at the small end, and up to 5-1/2" in diameter at the large end.  I'm planning on using 1-1/2" diameter tenons so a mortise at the short end of a log is between 1/3 and 1/2 the width of the log.  The last thing I want is for a joint to fail; which could injure someone sleeping in the bed.

I am finding it very challenging to cut a tenon in a log of this size.  I purchased a 2-1/2" diameter tenon cutter so I could reduce the log down to the point where my 1-1/2" cutter would operate.  However, I'm finding the 2-1/2" cutter very challenging to use as it tends to be very grabby when cutting the hickory log.  I have found I have to reduce the log down to under 3" in diameter, through hand work, before I can use the 2-1/2" cutter.  Even then, keeping that cutter under control in a powerful drill is challenging.

Any suggestions from people with more experience in creating rustic hickory furniture would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for the help

[PA_Walnut]

I have ZERO experience in making log furniture, but I DO make windsor chair, so I need to make tenons.
Have you considered a draw knife and spokeshave? Both are a pleasure to use and should get you close to what you need.

To help strengthen your joints, consider pegging them or using through-tenons and wedging them.

Good luck!

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I have tenon cutter. My largest one is 3 - 1/2 " and my sizes go down to 1- 1/2.

Something you may want to a check is the position of your blades.
Each blade MUST be positioned the same as the one on the opposite side.
They can't be out to far into the cutting area so experiment until it cuts fairly smoothly.

The next think that really makes it easy is to use a drill motor made for tendon cutters.
I use a Milwaukee drill with the recommended 450 rpms. DO NOT use a variable speed.
Mine is a constant speed of 450 rpms.
Best move I made when getting this.

When everything is right, it will pull itself into the wood as it cuts the tenon.

Goat

Where are you from Jbasen ?

[jbasen]

Thanks so much for the replies.

I have been using a draw knife for some of the manual work.  However, using a draw knife to take down a 5-1/2" diameter hickory log to around 3" in diameter is a lot more manual work than I would like.  

Thanks for the hints about making sure the cutters are aligned properly and to use a big Milwaukee drill.  I have made sure the cutters are aligned properly but my drill is probably not the best.  As this is just a hobby and furniture pieces that use logs that are this big are going to be very few and far between I am trying not to dump too much money into this one project.  

I also sent an email to the manufacturer and they suggested removing one of the cutters and to play with spacers on the remaining cutter, which I believe will reduce the bite it takes.  

I have looked around for a used drill but the closest one I can find on Craigslist is about a 3 hour drive as I live about 10 miles west of the middle of nowhere in the mountains of Idaho:-)

Thanks for all the suggestions!

[Hilltop366]

Welcome, no experience but was wondering if a angle grinder with one of those carving discs would rough out the tenons?

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=43424&cat=1,130,43409

[jbasen]

Thanks for the idea.

I have seen one jig that uses an angle grinder for cutting tenons  - http://www.logcabintools.com/logman-angle-grinder-tenon-cutter.html

and another that uses a router - http://www.logcabintools.com/logman-tenon-maker2.html

I didn't have any experience with either of these and had good luck with the kind I purchased (only ones for making much smaller tenons), so I went with the larger variety of drill driven cutters.  After a bunch of experimentation I've had reasonable luck

1) trimming the log somewhat close to the size of the tenon I want using a hand held planer
2) I then use a draw knife to clean up the rough tenon and get it close to the shape of a cylindar
3) Next I use a rasp to smooth things out even more.
4) Finally I use the tenon cutter.  

Tomorrow morning I'll give the tenon cutter a try with one of the blades removed and the blade shimmed up a little to reduce the size of the cut it makes as suggested by the manufacturer.  Hopefully this improves the performance of the tenon cutter enough that I can cut back on steps 1-4.  

If anyone has used either an angle grinder or router based tenon cutter I'd love to hear how they work.  As both require manually spinning the log to get the systems to work I was somewhat hesitant to buy one and then try to deftly spin a 7' log to create a clean tenon.  

Thanks

[Ed_K]

 I'd like to know how you do with the cutter removed. I've been wanting a tenon cuter but need more $$$, as I'll need a big drill too. I looked at the router one but didn't realize you have to turn the wood while you cutting the tenon.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Happy Birthday Ed.

   I make primitive benches with mortise and tenon for legs. I put the leg stock, round or square stock, in a vise then use a Lumberjack 1-1/2" tenon cutter in a heavy 1/2" drill. It cuts a 3" peg 1-1/2" in diameter and leaves a 60 degree shoulder. It works good but will break your wrist if not careful. I figure a lathe type arrangement or even a big drill press would be better but have not gotten one yet. I think an old ShopSmith might work well if properly set up.

   I use a drawknife to round off and reduce the starting size of the area to cut and they helps tremendously.

   One thing I just started doing was to drive an ax/sledge hammer wedge in the end if I find the tenon is shrinking and getting loose. Seems to be working real well. I found a source to buy wedges by the pound.

[Crusarius]

I have never done anything you guys are talking about but just a random thought I had. I have a tall standup drill press. if I was going to be doing what you are doing I would lay the drill press down and make a jig to hold the log then use the drill press to put the mortise on there.

This will prevent any broken wrists, and should have pretty desirable results if the fixture holds it from moving. Plus you can adjust the speed accordingly.

[jbasen]

Interesting approach.  Thanks for the idea.

[Jemclimber]

I have never done anything you guys are talking about but just a random thought I had. I have a tall standup drill press. if I was going to be doing what you are doing I would lay the drill press down and make a jig to hold the log then use the drill press to put the mortise on there.

This will prevent any broken wrists, and should have pretty desirable results if the fixture holds it from moving. Plus you can adjust the speed accordingly.

Usually that is called a lathe. :D ;D   The jig to hold the end is called a tail stock.  ;)  Sorry I couldn't help myself.

[Crusarius]

hmm good point  

The only difference is a lathe your moving the wood a drill press your moving the cutter. easier to clamp the wood than spin it.

[Hilltop366]

I have seen one jig that uses an angle grinder for cutting tenons  - http://www.logcabintools.com/logman-angle-grinder-tenon-cutter.html and another that uses a router - http://www.logcabintools.com/logman-tenon-maker2.html

Those look like they work well in the videos, I have seen some jigs on this principal using a table saw or  a circular saw. 

[jbasen]

I would be interested in trying one of the router based tenoning jigs but they don't seem to be available.  Rockler made one years ago but they don't sell it anymore.  The link I posted said theirs was out of stock.  I found one other for sale and that web site said it was out of stock.  I could probably make one but for something like this I would rather purchase one then spend time working through multiple prototypes until I got it right.  

I spent the morning trying to get the 2-1/2" drill mounted tenon cutter to work.  At this point, unfortunately, I'm going to put that aside as I'm finding even with one blade removed and the other blade shimmed that it has a tendency to grab into the hickory; which in a high torque drill is not at all fun.  

It is time consuming but I can reduce the diameter of a 5" hickory log down to around 1-3/4" and then my 1-1/2" tenon cutter does a great job with it.  Using the 2-1/2" cutter would have made a nicer looking tenon with a smoother radius from the log into the tenon but it isn't worth the risk of injury.

Thanks

[TKehl]

That's a big bite to take if you don't have the right drill, especially in Hickory.  A lot of the Milwaukee Hole Hawg drills have the advantage of having a clutch that in theory should slip before the broken bone thing happens.    ;)

Funny enough, I just bought a bigger used drill yesterday online.  A Makita DS4000.  I have a home made jig table (finally setting it up) that will hold the log with a sliding bracket and pipe clamp that holds the drill.  (Also has track for a drill press to make a straight line of holes.)  In theory, it should make straight tennons on big ERC.  The new to me drill should be here Monday.    ;D

Even with a good drill, I think some roughing out will be required.  A chainsaw mounted Log Wizard may be a nice addition to your toolbox.  ;) 

[jbasen]

Just to be clear, I was using my planer to reduce the diameter of of the 5-1/2" log to a little under 3" before trying to use the 2-1/2" tenon cutter.  I wasn't trying to go from 5" to 2-1/2" in one bite.

The log wizard looks very cool.  I'm leaving the hickory bark on the logs except where I'm cutting the tenons.  But, it does look like a fun tool :-)

I've attached a photo of my master bedroom where I've built a foot board to match an old hickory headboard and the two night stands.  The legs and lower shelf of the night stands are hickory logs while the top, drawer, and cabinetry around the drawer are QSWO.  I also built the blanket chest that is shown in the picture out of QSWO.  

Thanks again for everyone's input.

 

[Stuart Caruk]

You don't say what type of tenon, but I used this to cut my tenons before I upgraded to my Hitachi. The makita tenon cutter is limited to about a 10" tall x 8" wide beam. My Hitachi will hold an 18" tall x 12" wide beam and whip out consistent tenons in a single pass. It has 4 blades so it trims the ends and cheeks of the tenons all at the same time, guaranteeing consistent results. Best tool I ever bought. Take a hunk of wood worth $2 - $3 a BF and doubles the value for a couple cuts...

[jbasen]

Wow.  That is quite the toy.  I had never seen one before but found a YouTube video of it in action.  Pretty amazing.  Note quite the kind of tenon I'm making.  Here is a picture of a 1-1/2" tenon I made this morning on a log that is close to 5" in diameter.  Sorry the photo should be rotated 90 degrees but I'm not sure how to do that on this forum. 

Thanks

 

[TKehl]

DanG it Stuart!  Now I have another tool to add to my wishlist.   ;D  To make matters worse, I discovered portable chain mortisers while looking for this tennoner.  I love my OWWM, but the space savings and portability of the newer stuff changed my mind.  2 new tools on the list now.  

[Ed_K]

 Thanks WV Sawmiller for the HB.
And Happy Birthday to Crusarius.
Bailey's had the router type tenon cutter,but I'm not sure they still sell it.
 Just looked at the online catalog there's a tenon jig item #16515, but it's not what I remember them selling as a kit.

[jbasen]

Thanks.  I checked Baileys and they just seem to have some leftover adapters for cutting a 2-3/4" tenon.  The full kit is listed online as "unavailable".  I haven't found anyone online with them anymore; even used on eBay.

[jbasen]

I realized I never followed up and posted a picture of the finished trundle bed that I built.  Here it is.

 

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

You have a talent Jb.

[jbasen]

Thanks so much