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Cooks sharpener

Started by irvi00, August 10, 2017, 08:26:56 PM

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bandmiller2

If you use a WM CBN your Lenox bands would just have a WM profile. You would probably never notice the difference in how they look or cut. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

irvi00

Thanks bandmiller2. That's what I figured. A dumb question is one that isn't asked. But I had to ask it. I'm leaning towards the WM BMS 250 sharpener and either the cooks or Suffolk setter.

Magicman

It's my understanding that blades with an even slightly different profile are not kind to CBN wheels because the reshaping unnecessarily wears the wheels.  My Wood-Mizer ReSharp in GA will not accept anything other than WM blades.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

pineywoods

A cbn wheel needs to match the profile of the blade. Otherwise, excessive wear on the wheel. I converted my wm drag type sharpener to use a cbn wheel. Used it to re-profile about 50 blades. The cbn wheel is shot...$150  but still worth it.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

bandmiller2

Any of you CBN'ers tried regritting the wheels, or at least the heavily worn parts. ?? Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

YellowHammer

Quote from: pineywoods on August 16, 2017, 10:43:44 PM
A cbn wheel needs to match the profile of the blade. Otherwise, excessive wear on the wheel. I converted my wm drag type sharpener to use a cbn wheel. Used it to re-profile about 50 blades. The cbn wheel is shot...$150  but still worth it.
I've heard the same thing, and I have a passel of WM blades that I ground with the Cooks drag sharpener, but I've been taking very light passes and haven't noticed any damage, yet.  I'm watching closely, and I may trash the wheel, but I feel it has already been a good trade up.  My goal is to resahrpen and use up all my WM blades sharpened with the Cooks, and that way I can just push the CBN as far as it will go and hopefully it will last long enough to get them all.  After that, I will only have WM profiles, and I can get a new wheel if I need to.   

With the BMS 250, which is the low end model, I'm impressed with its accuracy and very clean grind.  I sharpen after I set, and it has made the setting operation much more accurate.  Almost no burr to remove and about twice the tooth consistency, measured with the setters dial indicators, pre set. Zero burn. 

Certainly, some stink from the oil, some mess, and I have taken to using latex gloves when handling the blades.  There is a learning curve, but after a few blades it was pretty routine. 

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Cutting Edge

Quote from: irvi00 on August 16, 2017, 07:33:20 PM

The WM sharpener with CBN wheels, can I use that for other brands of blades or am I confined solely to WM blades?


There are wheels available for all the Kasco WoodMaxx profiles.  There are several manufacturers that market profiles that mimic each other and one CBN wheel would very effectively work for all of them. 

Conversely, there are some profiles on the market that are very specific and you would be much better off to have a CBN wheel that is meant for that specific profile in lieu of altering it to match.

Examples - You wouldn't want to take a Kasco 4 WoodMaxx and turn it into the Kasco 7 SuperMaxx or take a WM 9 deg and turn it into a WM 4 deg.  Alot of material to remove.



Quote from: Magicman on August 16, 2017, 10:25:56 PM

It's my understanding that blades with an even slightly different profile are not kind to CBN wheels because the reshaping unnecessarily wears the wheels. 



Au Contraire.  There are CBN wheels on the market that are indeed specifically for this purpose.  It could be a CBN wheel for a simple hook angle change, all the way to a full out profile change and prototyping.

There are several of us here on the FF that use "regular" CBN wheels for re-profiling blades to meet our's or a customer's specific needs.  Not for a mere 50 blades... for 100's of blades and still going strong... just can't be sourced from WM.



To address irvi00's original question,

Peter D. stated "Use someone's rock or watch one work, then watch a CBN work.  Your mind will be made up fast".  A trip to customsawyer's would provide that opportunity. 

"Winning an argument isn't everything, as long as you are heard and understood" - W.S.


Cutting Edge Saw Service, LLC -
- Sharpening Services
- Portable/Custom Milling and Slabbing
- On-Site Sawmill Maintenance/Repair Services

Factory Direct Kasco WoodMaxx Blades
Ph- (304) 878-3343

Magicman

We are both speaking of generalities so I do not see the disagreement??  ::)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Cutting Edge

Oh, there is no disagreement, maybe just a misunderstanding of how you interpreted my post.  Based on your concluding smiley, it seems that may be the case.

I relayed information based on facts and real world experience/application to help the OP try to make an informed and educated decision including examples and details.  I do not feel there were any "generalities" on my part in any fashion.  The OP is looking to make a significant investment and wants to do so as best as he can.  Information based on conjecture and here-say, does not aid him in any manner, and could very possibly lead him to a make purchase that might not be the best for his specific long-term goals.
"Winning an argument isn't everything, as long as you are heard and understood" - W.S.


Cutting Edge Saw Service, LLC -
- Sharpening Services
- Portable/Custom Milling and Slabbing
- On-Site Sawmill Maintenance/Repair Services

Factory Direct Kasco WoodMaxx Blades
Ph- (304) 878-3343

Magicman

QuoteIt's my understanding that blades with an even slightly different profile are not kind to CBN wheels because the reshaping unnecessarily wears the wheels.
And this is a statement of fact, not conjecture.  The degree of wear will be determined by how much the profile differs, but the wear will be there.

Yes, we address the PM's specific question but always remember that there are many members and guests that are also reading that may have a slightly or very different situation and are trying to glean information that will aid in their decision making.

I was never questioning your knowledge or expertise.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

4x4American

Boy, back in my day..

gmmills

irvi00,  I see you are thinking of buying a BMS250 CBN Grinder. Very wise choice compared to a drag, Cook's,style grinder. I have been sharpening my own blades for over 16 yrs. Over this length of time I have experienced the astounding evolution in blade maintenance equipment. The CBN sharpeners are far superior to any drag style sharpener. Yes, to all you doubters, over the years I have had the unfortunate necessity to have to use a drag style grinder, never again. I currently own 2 CBN sharpeners a BMS250 And an older Pro Series which is the same unit that Customsawyer owns.

   The only Dual tooth setters that I would even consider purchasing are the WM or the Suffolk, Timberwolf , setters. I have personally owned a Cook's dual tooth setter for as lengthy 14 days and sent it back. I could not get that thing back on the truck fast enough.  All Cooks Dual tooth setters have a major design flaw. They do not have clamping system that will hold the blade body stable prior to the bending anvils contacting the tooth to be set. Without this feature the blade body is accentually twisted as the teeth are being bent. This causes extreme inconsistencies in tooth set. The other two, WM and Suffolk have a two stage clamping feature which allows for far more accurate set tolerances.

    Hope this helps you to make an informed decision before you spend your hard earned money.       
Custom sawing full-time since 2000. 
WM LT70D62 Remote with Accuset
Sawing since 1995

Cutting Edge

Quote from: Magicman on August 17, 2017, 10:31:30 PM
QuoteIt's my understanding that blades with an even slightly different profile are not kind to CBN wheels because the reshaping unnecessarily wears the wheels.
And this is a statement of fact, not conjecture.  The degree of wear will be determined by how much the profile differs, but the wear will be there.




Would you mind sharing your experience with CBN wheels ? 


Quote from: Magicman on August 17, 2017, 10:31:30 PM


Yes, we address the PM's specific question but always remember that there are many members and guests that are also reading that may have a slightly or very different situation and are trying to glean information that will aid in their decision making.



Yes, and that is why I posted the information that I did.  To help unmuddy the waters.  There is already enough false and mis-leading information about this industry as it is which makes for alot of confusion, especially to someone who is new.

"Winning an argument isn't everything, as long as you are heard and understood" - W.S.


Cutting Edge Saw Service, LLC -
- Sharpening Services
- Portable/Custom Milling and Slabbing
- On-Site Sawmill Maintenance/Repair Services

Factory Direct Kasco WoodMaxx Blades
Ph- (304) 878-3343

MobileSawMilSlo

Hi guys

Can you please tell me how many times can you sharpen blades with CBN before changing the CBN for the new one?

I have opportunity to buy drag style sharpener for aprox 300$ (sharpener is cooled with oil) but they way I see it from your words, the CBN is better.

Regards, Dejan
Woodmizer LT20 mobile and TTP-600 Premium Plus
DAJK - all sawing equipment in one place

Peter Drouin

Quote from: MobileSawMilSlo on August 18, 2017, 12:45:53 AM


Can you please tell me how many times can you sharpen blades with CBN before changing the CBN for the new one?



Regards, Dejan




I get 600 + blades with one CBN
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

xlogger

With Richard advise I got the WM250 and wheels from him, really happy with how my blades cut now and lasting longer also. Not sure how long the wheel will last but holding on well now. Richard has been very helpful with me on getting started. I'd sure take his advice and knowledge on wheels.
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

Magicman

Quote from: Cutting Edge on August 17, 2017, 11:26:40 PM
Would you mind sharing your experience with CBN wheels ? 
Zero.  I will simply defer to the largest blade manufacturer and resharpener in the world...Wood-Mizer.

As I stated earlier Richard, I was never questioning your knowledge or expertise.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

drobertson

Quote from: irvi00 on August 10, 2017, 08:26:56 PM
Time for me to look into sharpening my own blades. The cooks cat claw sharpener and dual tooth setter looks like a good combo for the money. Anyone using it? Pros or cons? Anything out there better? Open to any and all experience and opinions.
All I have is an opinion. But its based on several different folks supplying resharps to me in the past.
One of which was the "number one manufacturer of band blades" then others followed after my less than satisfaction with the blades as well as the resharp service. Speaking with many folks in these parts that have grew up sawing, made it a family tradition in many cases, I followed their advice many times.  To sum it all up, just my opinion, I figure any tool would work, some better than others, some less expensive as the others. The bottom line is what works for you and your application and budget.  One thing to always remember about budgeting for equipment is how will it perform in the long haul. If you shell out bucks and ultimately become unsatisfied, are you making enough to justify replacing for the better?  It's all a learning curve, and listening to those who have been down the road, hands on in my opinion have the best advice.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Chuck White

I use only my Cat-Claw sharpener and single-tooth setter!

Not looking any further, completely satisfied with what I have!   :)
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Bluejay27

I cut a lot of tree service logs and reclaimed lumber, and often enough knock 1/16"+ off the tips. My two tricks on the BMS250 to deal with this are either stagger the grind or drop down to a shorter profile (i.e. 10/32 to 9/29).

By stagger the grind, I mean push the blade too far about 1/32" so the top is ground without having to grind the gullet. I then do a light pass to get the burr on the tip of the tooth. This grinds a lot faster than 2 proper heavy grinds and I can shorten the tooth relative to the gullet without issues.

I have made mistakes and damaged wheels, as well as intentional done an abusive grind to make a custom metal-sawing profile, but I've still only gone through 3 wheels in at least 1000 sharpenings. Especially at $150/wheel now, that isn't bad at all. I go through oil faster than that, although I now use used transmission and hydraulic oil (absolutely no engine oil, carcinogenic!) along with a good respirator and gloves. So I have no issue with re-profiling, and I regularly sharpen non-WM blades for customers (of course I only use WM, the 1-1/2x0.050" doublehard is my new favorite on the LT40).
'98 Wood-Mizer LT40HDD42 Super, '08 LT40HDG28, '15 LT70HDD55-RW, '93 Clark GPX25 Forklift, '99 Ford F550

irvi00

This is all great info and thanks to all! I see pros and cons on both sides, (drag vs. CBN). I went through 60 WM bands first thing, I wasn't happy with the performance. Anytime I slowed the feed down, (wide cuts, knots...etc.) I was getting this terrible wavy cut on the surface. After I had them sharpened and set from a guy with a professional shop, this phenomenon went away. No matter how fast or slow I fed the cut I got the same smooth finish. I've since bought a batch of Lenox blades and also a batch of timberwolf blades. Both cut great, smooth finish no matter speed of feed. The Lenox blades were a much better value than the timberwolf and WM. Hence I have become fond of the Lenox blades. So in this case I would be hesitant to use a CBN type sharpener to profile those blades to a WM profile. Thoughts?

bandmiller2

What type of grinder did the professional sharpener use.?? Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

irvi00

Quote from: bandmiller2 on August 18, 2017, 08:31:56 PM
What type of grinder did the professional sharpener use.?? Frank C.

A very old school looking drag sharpener. All his stuff looks 100 years old. Dark as midnight in there. He keeps a lightbulb over each machine. He sharpens any type of saw, hammers circular saws, and sharpens chipper and planer blades. I was very happy with how he sharpened my bands, they were better than new.

gmmills

 Magicman,
   
   You have stated that you have Zero experience CBN wheels then why do you feel the need to even comment on the subject of CBN wheels or sharpening in general?
Your opinion is solely based on what you have been told by a WM Rep. It is really a shame that you were not able to make it to Customsawyer's project. At least you could have attended the blade educational talk that , Richard and myself presented. Our presentation was based on real world full time sawing fact. Some of the content was in direct conflict with many manufacturers recommendations. You may have then realized that there are people, full time sawyers, out there with a great deal of practical knowledge that is applied to make a living every day and are not directly affiliated with WM.   
Custom sawing full-time since 2000. 
WM LT70D62 Remote with Accuset
Sawing since 1995

Bruno of NH

Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

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