Board widths when grade sawing.

[Dave Shepard]

When sawing for grade, is width of the board part of the equation? When I saw pine, I am either working towards a target cant size that I can then saw into boards of a pre-determined width, or I flat saw all the way to the deck and edge out what I want. If you are turning all the time to find the best grade, you will get random width boards, are these then edged into boards of consistent widths?


Dave

[Brian_Rhoad]

When I saw for grade the boards are left at what ever size they come off the mill. If you edge to a certain size you are wasting wood and loosing money.

[BBTom]

Other than the fact that most species cannot have an fas board under 6" wide, leave the width as they come off the saw.  If you can edge a couple knots off and still leave 6" of board,  it might make you more money.  First thing to do is go to nhla.com (National Hardwood Lumber Association) and order the NHLA lumber grading rulebook.  It is very difficult to saw grade lumber if you don't have a decent understanding of the grades. 

[Bibbyman]

There is a lot more to it but I'm not qualified to give you good information.  Maybe someone that is a certified lumber grader can step in here.

A lot depends of the species of hardwood and the buyer.  It is always better to ask the buyer questions before starting to deliver lumber to him.  There are standards and then there is what the lumber broker will take.  For example, maybe the rules say 3" is minimum width but the buyer may say nothing less than 4" width. 

Then to get higher grade, the width must be say 6" wide.  If it's less, then the grade is lowered. 

When they tally up the lumber,  if a board is 6-5/8" wide, then it's counted as a 7".  If it's 6-3/8" wide, then it's counted as a 6" board.  If a board falls on a 1/2" width, they are to take one up and one down.

The short answer is as wide as you can.  But sometimes you can edge off some width and improve the grade – thus make the board more valuable.  Same with length.

[beenthere]

When sawing for grade, is width of the board part of the equation? When I saw pine, I am either working towards a target cant size that I can then saw into boards of a pre-determined width, or I flat saw all the way to the deck and edge out what I want. If you are turning all the time to find the best grade, you will get random width boards, are these then edged into boards of consistent widths?
Dave

When sawing pine, what grade lumber are you looking for outside of the cants? Dimension or boards?

There is a difference between sawing for hardwood lumber grade, resulting in clear cuttings and random width lumber.........and sawing softwood for dimension grade (fixed widths) or softwood cutting grades (like Shop lumber)

[Ron Wenrich]

We had a discussion about grading lumber just a few months back.  Maybe you want to read the thread:  https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,29330.0.html

There are a couple of different approaches you can use.  Some depends on the species and the grade of the log.  Some species are sold as F1F to get the top grade.  That requires a 6" x 8' board as a minimum.  Red oak can fall into this category, as well as tulip poplar, ash and a few others.  A lot depends on your area.

Some buyers will buy on a select grade.  That requires a 4" x 6' board as a minimum.  Some places buy oak on this scale, as well as cherry, birch, hickory and maple.  The price is usually $10/Mbf under F1F.  Don't sell selects where they require a 6" x 8' board.  That's just a buyer getting his F1F for $10/Mbf cheaper.

There are 2 ways to start your cut.  Either from an inside out standpoint, where you start at one point and pull boards until you reach your target size.  I do this especially on lower grade logs or where there isn't much waste by pulling the opening face.

For better logs, you want to start where you have the best chance to pull the highest quality board.  For me, I like to try for the 6" face.  Then pull the boards you need to get close to your target size, and finish with a shim cut.

If you're turning you logs to a lot of different faces, you should always pull a shim board to straighten your log out.  Otherwise you'll end up with thick ends or thin middles and one very unhappy buyer.  It will be classified as poorly manufactured lumber.  Sometimes the turning doesn't make up for the loss of a board.

[Dave Shepard]

Thanks for the information. I was thinking more along the lines of what the target widths would be. I saw with 2" increments in mind (pine), and i sort into different width stacks, i.e. 1x6, 1x8, 1x12 etc. I don't saw any dimension lumber here. Bibbyman, the way you explained it answered my question, the boards are sold at the widths they are sawn. Next question, how does the end user accomodate the random widths?  I realize some people are using the material for a multitude of different things, but lets use someone that is supplying  S4S to a retail outlet. They take in a load of boards that are all over the place in width, do they then take each board and process it down to the next lowest finished dimension after drying? It makes sense to me to not edge everything down to exact widths, let's say even inch increments, off the saw, but I can see that it is more wood that has to be trucked, dried and handled over the long run.


Dave

Ron, I'll check out the other thread. Thanks.

[Ron Wenrich]

If you're talking about hardwoods, what we're looking for is the amount of clear lumber we can get in certain sized cuttings.  What generally happens to a hardwood board is that it gets dried, then cut up into something else, then glued to make a panel.

The clear lumber is usually made into mouldings, or something that neads a really long clean piece.  A bed rail, for example. 

The boards with some defect will be cross cut into various lengths, then ripped from 2" to 4" on ½" increments.  They will then be matched and glued into panels.  Those panels can be used in a wide variety of products, such as chair bottoms, drawer fronts, and cabinet sides. 

Stuff with lots of defect can get cut into strips and be made into strip flooring.  With the use of finger jointing, they can use some really small pieces of wood that used to go into the boiler. 

A lot of times you can make better grade by leaving that extra ¼ or ½ inch of wood.  It can often give you enough clear lumber to bump a board up a grade.  That can double the value of the board.  Edging to the closest inch will cost you a lot of money over time.

The stuff you see in box stores have been pulled to make a dimension piece of stock.  Some of the wider boards have been matched and glued.  But, most people don't notice that.

[Dave Shepard]

Interesting. It helps to know how the material is going to be used later. I know pretty much what is going to happen to a timber, or some board and batten siding. The hardwoods side of things is a different story.


Dave

[David Freed]

Dave,

     In answer to your question about how the end user processes random width lumber, I will tell you how the process works for me. I make custom flooring, with many orders being for a certain width of clear, long lengths. On some species I have two choices. I can buy random width lumber or cut to width blanks. If I am going to use random width on a 1,000 sq ft order, I will have to buy 1400 - 2,000 bf of rough lumber to have enough to make the order. Depending on the width of the order I am making, there may be some usable strips left over that can be used on a future floor of a narrower width.
     There is a supplier not too far away that buys random width lumber of certain species and makes pre-cut blanks of all different widths. He has enough customers needing all different widths that his waste is minimal, and when I buy from him, the only waste I have is sawdust. Of course the blanks cost more per bf, but it can be less total outlay up front to get a certain job completed as well as cutting our labor costs for the job.

[woodmills1]

A new Lowes opened in nashua.  The 1x12 oak is avaliable only up to 6 foot long and all of them in stock were glue ups..................at 6.85 per bd ft.

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Also the extra width is lost when the boards are straight lined ripped and then edged to size.  So if you send in a board that is 8 1/2 wide and ends up at 7 1/2 wide, part is loss in shrinkage (hardwood shrinkage is twice of pine and lower MC levels) and then straighting it back up.
  Most of the time in grade sawing you are trying to leave a tie or cant on the center and that is the target as for size that you are sawing toward.