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404 chain

Started by deastman, July 14, 2014, 05:47:03 AM

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deastman

I run 3/4 pitch chain on my Fabtek four-roller head but I had an operator of a dangle head tell me that he switched from 3/4 to 404 and his saw cut a lot faster.  Wondering if anyone has tried 404 or runs it on a Fabtek four-roller head?
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

BargeMonkey

 .404 could possibly cut faster if its super sharp, and maybe in small softwood. Ive got .404 on my wood processor and am planning on converting to 3/4. .404 is pretty expensive, your bar choices are somewhat limited. I can straighten a bent 3/4 bar, good luck on a .404 unless its a mild tweek. Call Comstock and price it,  he maybe able to find a bar and sprocket to fit, but I think your looking at a headache.

Gary_C

In general, faster cutting requires faster chain speeds and feed forces (with more HP) and along with faster cutting you get more wear and shorter service life. So if you change from 3/4 to 404 you need to adjust many things. I know that chain speeds can be faster for 404, but I'm not sure the change over is normally made for faster cutting speeds.

The last I knew 3/4 bars and chains were about 4-5 times as expensive as 404 bars and chains plus the 3/4 bars required a large press and a lot of work to even get close to straight after they get bent. I straighten 404 bars right in the woods and can get them very close to straight unless they are creased. No way with a 3/4 bar.

So I could understand wanting to switch to 404 for costs, but not sure about cutting speed. You should be able to get good cutting speeds out of the 3/4 bars and chains.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

sawguy21

.404x.080 is our most popular harvester chain, we stock little 3/4 because it doesn't sell which should tell you something.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Gary_C

One other factor I forgot to mention. The 3/4 bars are generally used on larger heads because they are stiffer in longer lengths. If you use a 404 in one of the longer lengths, the bars tend to get kind of "whippy" and can be deflected both before and in a cut.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

snowstorm

do you know what your saw motor rpm should be? i checked mine once with a photo tach. it was in spec. it was 9000rpm about i could look it up. i run sthil chain 404 and they are around $20. bars i have had gb...stihl...Oregon and the the i like the best iggesund. they have more spring to them straighten pretty good and last a long time. the sthil bars break way to easy. break crack. oregon easy to straighten and easy to bend. how is your bar mounted? 2 studs? the bar slot may be a different size. if so just have a machine shop make some new ones. so to set the record straight what do you pay for 3\4" chain and bars. i find it hard to belive they are less than 404

Corley5

  About 300 bux per bar for my Fabtek four roller, about 50 bux for a chain, and 65 for a new tip.  I've taken some pretty serious bends out of the bars with a 10 ton press.  A bag of presets for the chain is 12 something.  I've got parts chains for the rest of the parts.  I rigged up a half inch drill on my spinner to rivet the chains.  Saw shop told me the other day that Oregon is running a special.  Buy a bar get a free chain.  I've got an Oregon bar and a Gem bar.  The Gem takes an Oregon tip.  Both bars are the same quality.  I run Oregon chain. 
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

barbender

I thought 404 was way cheaper than 3/4. It has to take way more power to drive a 3/4 through a cut, that stuff has to cut a kerf at least twice as wide. From what I've heard, the only advantage 3/4 has is in abrasive conditions, it will stay sharp longer. FWIW, Ponsse harvesters all run .404 standard.
Too many irons in the fire

BargeMonkey

 The 3/4 is more expensive, about 50 per chain vs 20 for .404. Bars are more but you get 3-4X the life out of them. If your cutting small diameter stuff I think it could work great. I cut about 500cord of firewood a year, doesnt take much mud, the occasional rock or metal to smoke a .404 chain, if its close to new you can kinda bring it back, half worn out and in the junk pile she goes. Im running the 28" bars on my Timbco and if I can wrap the head around it, its going down.

deastman

Thanks for all the help. The firewood processor I just bought has 404 on it and it seems to cut thru hardwood pretty quick. The 404 does cost less but I didnt think it would be as durable as the 3/4.  I have 3 Chain-Serts carbide chains that work awesome but they take out a bigger kerf than regular 3/4.
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

chainsaw

I`ve run stroke delinbers for the last 16 or so years.ran both 404 and 18h.I`ve had both sizes last up to 5 or 6 weeks before going dull,and have seen both sizes break in the same conditions.The advantage I see to 404 is a narrower kerf and faster cutting that really helps prevent slabbing if the tree isnt in a perfect position while bucking.seems 18h needs to be just right or the weight of the top and the width of the kerf seems to cause the log to slab lots more than 404.I also noticed that 404 cuts much better when dull.If I had a choice between the two on the delimber I am running now,I would go with 404 over the 18h it has.
Earth first,we`ll log the other planets later

Corley5

Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

1270d

he may have meant 404 .63 gua.

BargeMonkey

 Now oregon did away with the .063 and went to .080 exclusively right ?  Stihl only manufacturer's .063 ?  I know I couldnt get .063 bars for my processor anymore, and got left with a bunch of stihl and oregon chain.

sawguy21

As far as I know the Oregon 16H (404 X 063) is still available but we sell very little.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

chainsaw

Quote from: 1270d on July 14, 2014, 10:49:41 PM
he may have meant 404 .63 gua.
sorry,I meant 11H,3/4 chain.
Earth first,we`ll log the other planets later

Corley5

I got a few loops of Carlton's 18H equivalent "Harvest Chamfer Chisel" for my firewood machine and I don't like it.  It's extremely sensitive to dirt.  I put them away to try next winter and got some more 18H.  Blount owns Carlton as well Oregon.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

North River Energy

Slightly off topic, but:

Quote from: deastmanThe firewood processor I just bought has 404 on it and it seems to cut thru hardwood pretty quick.

Which machine did you choose, and how do you like it so far?

deastman

I ended up buying a 2012 Bell's 4000 with 170 hours on it. I had ordered a new Bell's 6000 but it was gonna be the middle  of August before i could take delivery of it. I went with the 4000 cause it was almost new and I could get it two months sooner, and I should be able to get most of what I paid for it on trade-in if I want to upgrade to the 6000. So far I've been pretty happy with it. We've made a few small modifications to it and the only other thing I may do is add a third live deck strand. The Cat engine is great on fuel and the joystick control makes it very comfortable to run.
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

North River Energy

^Nice.

Have you had any of the difficulties that the operator in Belgrade had with his 6000?

deastman

The only problem I've had like his machine had was the arm that holds the log while it's being cut didn't close down enough to hold small diameter logs. The factory sent him down another set of "teeth" to add on to hold better and we fabricated our own so the arm would clamp down and hold any size small diameter logs. Before on both our processor's the bar or rotary saw would grab and throw the small ends cause the clamp wouldn't close down enough to hold them. Also mine doesn't have the problem of the block bouncing when dropping into the splitter after being cut off like the 6000 does.
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

treeslayer2003

hey does iggusund make bars to fit the bell cutters?

has any one tried full chisel on one? i know it won't last but should be faster.

i have had better luck straightening with a sledge than any thing but a twist i havn't figured out.

North River Energy

^
^Thanks. Good to hear it's working out.


Just a guess, but for the twisted bar, probably some manner of adjustable fixture for the press bed that appears 'opposite' the damage.

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