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what'z a Bull edger?

Started by karl, January 02, 2008, 05:55:25 PM

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karl

Whats the difference 'tween an edger and a bull edger ?
We want to edge slabs before sending to the resaw- what do we need?
"I ask for wisdom and strength, Not to be superior to my brothers, but to be able to fight my greatest enemy, myself"  - from Ojibwa Prayer.

beenthere

From the source below:
bull edger
The first and usually largest edger behind the headrig to which low-grade cants are directed for ripping to
widths suitable for further manufacture on a resaw or trimmer.


http://www.uwex.edu/ces/ag/sus/wood/pdfindex/wmanappd.pdf
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ron Wenrich

Usually bull edgers rip cants into boards or they can be used to edge 2 sides of a flitch to make a cant or take a 3 sided cant and make boards and a cant.

Power requirements are a lot higher for a bull edger.  You're cutting a whole lot more wood, and you have a lot of fixed blades.

For what you're talking about, you need a pretty good edger that can pull that uneven surface through the edger.  You'll be cutting much more than a standard board.

I often wonder about sending a slab through an edger then through a resaw.  I don't see the utility in handling the piece more than once, and any grade is usually on the outside of the log.  To me, it makes more sense to make boards while pulling grade, then send your cant to the resaw to be broken down further when there is no more edging needed.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

karl

We run a MD and seldom turn the log- the edger is mainly to recover from the heavy bottom slab that we are left with.
Sounds like an edger that will accept up to 3" thick  and 16" wide would do the job as long as it can feed the lumpy side.

I've seen a few economical (WM,TK etc) edgers for sale, but thought they would be more hassle than help for our use- I am guessing that a belted feed with powered holddown would be best?????

Thanks for the response
Karl
"I ask for wisdom and strength, Not to be superior to my brothers, but to be able to fight my greatest enemy, myself"  - from Ojibwa Prayer.

Texas Ranger

Around the south I think the Bull edger killed more mill workers than any other piece of equipment.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Bro. Noble

When we're cutting low grade logs,  we slab them heavy and run the slabs through a scragg mill and then a resaw.  We also run small logs through the scrag mill.
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Ron Wenrich

Get yourself a good edger.  We have an Edminston, and it will take a 4" cut.  It has a hold down and antikickback fingers. 

Nothing against the smaller units, but, if you're going to be using it on a daily basis and putting heavy slabs through, then you'll need something that will withstand a daily pounding. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

StorminN

Karl,

How heavy of a slab do you normally leave on the bottom with your MD? Do you use the MD flip-up "toe boards" or put wedges underneath your logs when you are dogging them?

Just wondering...

-Norm.
Happiness... is a sharp saw.

karl

Norm,

small logs we use the flip ups at least on the top end, big ole logs are sometimes hard to get a grip on 'cause the bark just tears out and lets the log loose when we get past center- real PITA to get set back up and dogged- so we leave 'em down (at least on the butt)and get a slab large enough to pull 1 or more reasonable bds from, even if some are cut back in length.
I have my stops set so that the bottom edger clears the clamps by about 1/4-3/8" so I'm guessing a slab may be 2-2 1/2" thick not counting whatever bell may be past the first clamp.

Edminston eh? So many mfgers, so little info- will search.
Thanks for the tips.

Hmm, beginning to feel like this milling thing has become an expensive addiction.......
"I ask for wisdom and strength, Not to be superior to my brothers, but to be able to fight my greatest enemy, myself"  - from Ojibwa Prayer.

StorminN

Karl,

How about a lot of trouble for those last couple of boards, but without the expense of a dedicated edger??...

Do you think after you're done milling a log... if you unclamped the bottom slab and rotated it 180 degrees and put the wide flat side down, on the log bunks... maybe up on the flip-ups, maybe not, depends on the final thickness wanted. Then run the bottom edger over it again and surface it to the thickness you want... now you have a flitch, right?

Then rotate the flitch 90 degrees and clamp it like a bandmill would while edging... perhaps with the help of some custom taller backstops... would it be worth the trouble? Then edge it or split it with the edger blades, depending on the dimensions wanted... theoretically, you could get down to a 2.5" x 2.5" without using the flip-ups

-Norm.
Happiness... is a sharp saw.

Ron Wenrich

There's lots of different manufacturers for the medium sized edger.  Cornell, Lane, Miner, Frick are a few.  You can find these used.

But, why not turn the log?  It seems to me that a simple turn would eliminate the expense of the edger, the extra room it takes up, and the extra handling of the slab.  Turning the log would increase grade recovery in hardwoods, and some in pine.

I've always thought those MD mills would work very well on the front side of an old carriage.  Load the log on the carriage, set the tapers, dog it down, and let the carriage do all the indexing of the cuts.  Pretty easy to turn the logs on a carriage, especially if you have some hydraulics.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

karl

Norm

Been there- done that. makes for precious lumber with all the handling......even made jigs to help hold some of the big'uns from just breakin' off the slab edge and to thickness to 1".
Hard to get centered to edge on the big tapers- nothing to clamp on the top end.

Ron

We have given some thought to putting the money into a turner of some sort for the mill instead- small stuff isn't much of an issue to hop up there and flop 'em. the big'uns can be a handfull, 'specially with Arthur Itis and Bad Back joining the crew ::).
If we add an edger it will have to be economical for sure. It probably will contribute to every 10-15th board sawn. I can see us spending $3-4 grand on a machine, prob'ly not much more.
Guess we could do a turner for less....and that would help with beams too......
"I ask for wisdom and strength, Not to be superior to my brothers, but to be able to fight my greatest enemy, myself"  - from Ojibwa Prayer.

Ron Wenrich

Log turners go from $1500-2500 for a used one.  Helle has an onboard chain turner on their carriages.  I'm thinking you can devise something like that pretty easily. 

If I got the picture right in my head, you're just wanting to flip that bottom slab up 90° and secure it.  I've never seen an MD mill in action, just a few sales videos. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

karl

Ron

I wus kinda thinking of pulling my first side lumber, then raise the head to pull top lumber, turning 1/4 turn for next top lumber, roll for final top lumber leaving a cant to go to resaw......may take some retraining and a speed math course to pull it off. :-\ ???

As I say that- it sounds slow.... still think I would be more productive with an edger. Stockpile the bottom slabs at the end of the slab chain and run a whack-o-slabs at a time.

What you are suggesting sounds good, but I can't figure how to elevate the small end to keep centered. On nice balsam or rp with little taper it works ok if there is enough to dog into without the edge breaking off at the clamps. On large and or crooked pine or hdwd it can get frustrating fast( dangerous too) if part way into the cut things start coming detached :o :o
While we are wrestling with the slab- we could be decking another log.

Anybody thought of breeding square trees? ::)

Thanks for the ideas, it keeps me thinking.....



"I ask for wisdom and strength, Not to be superior to my brothers, but to be able to fight my greatest enemy, myself"  - from Ojibwa Prayer.

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