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Wood-mizer gremlins

Started by pnyberg, December 19, 2009, 01:37:58 PM

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pnyberg

My mill hasn't been getting much exercise lately, so I went out this morning to run the engine for a bit, and to change the blade in anticipation of doing some milling demonstrations for friends and relatives who will be visiting over the holidays.  It's been below freezing here in Connecticut for several days, and was in the mid-twenties this morning.

In the course of trying to do this simple chore, I discovered not one, not two, but three problems with my almost new machine.

First is the power feed motor.  I couldn't get the head to move on the rail, and I traced the problem down to the motor.  It wouldn't turn when power was supplied, and I was unable to turn the shaft by hand.  I brought it into my heated shop to warm up.  I had little confidence that this would solve the problem, but it did.  After a short while, I was able to turn the shaft.  So I reinstalled it, and the power feed is working again.  There was no water on my work bench where the motor sat, so if there was water in there, I think there still is.

Second, my Accuset stopped working.  When I first turned on the mill this morning, it was working.  I used the reference mode to move the head up to 12", so that I could move it to the back.  But at some point during the analysis of the power feed problem, I noticed the display now read "ERROR - transducer problem". 

Third, the head will only go up.  Push the lever up, the head goes up.  Push the lever down, the head also goes up.

Since I've started writing this post, I've discovered that the second and third problems are intermittent, and related.  When one goes away, the other does too. I haven't figured out if there's anything I can do to either cause or prevent them.

If anyone has any thoughts about what might be behind any of these issues, I would appreciate it.  It's going to be embarrassing if I have to tell my friends and relatives that my new sawmill isn't working.

--Peter

No longer milling

Magicman

Quote from: pnyberg on December 19, 2009, 01:37:58 PM
and to change the blade  --Peter 

What caught my eye was the blade thing.  Does "changing" mean that you leave the blade on the mill when it is not in use?  If it does, several bad things happen.  The blade rusts, sawdust becomes inbeded in the B57 belts even with the tension off,  safety.

The other issues could very easily be moisture related.  The feed motor could have been frozen and the moisture simply evaporated as it thawed.  Do you have covers on your control unit?  I'd use a hair dryer, etc. to completely dry everything out.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

pnyberg

Quote from: Magicman on December 19, 2009, 01:58:55 PM
What caught my eye was the blade thing.  Does "changing" mean that you leave the blade on the mill when it is not in use?  If it does, several bad things happen.  The blade rusts, sawdust becomes inbeded in the B57 belts even with the tension off,  safety.

The other issues could very easily be moisture related.  The feed motor could have been frozen and the moisture simply evaporated as it thawed.  Do you have covers on your control unit?  I'd use a hair dryer, etc. to completely dry everything out.

I do leave the blade in the mill with the tension relieved.  I thought this was SOP with bandsaw mills. 

The control station and the engine covers are in place whenever the mill in not being used.

I'd like to think that whatever moisture that may have been in the motor evaporated, but it seems like a pretty tightly sealed unit, so my fear is that it just melted, and will now re-freeze.

Thanks,
    Peter
No longer milling

Magicman

Quote from: pnyberg on December 19, 2009, 02:42:06 PM
I do leave the blade in the mill with the tension relieved.  I thought this was SOP with bandsaw mills.  Thanks, Peter

I'm sure that everyone has their own train of thought on this subject, but I personally do not leave a band on the mill.  Not even overnight.  They are too easily removed and re-installed.  The sawdust under the blade imbeds into the B57's, and the blade rust/tarnishes when exposed to this tanic acid, etc. overnight.  Every time I remove the band, both belts get cleaned with a wire brush to remove the sawdust buildup.  Also heavy dew or if it happens to rain, the blade will start rusting.

I'm not suggesting to anyone what they should do......I'm just saying what I do.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Bibbyman

The head not moving in freezing weather well could be frozen sawdust and such built up in places like the cam rollers and other close parts around the sawhead and frame.  You may try taking the dust covers off the head cam rollers and checking for a buildup of damp (frozen) sawdust.  ATF oil on the rails and up and down the mast post will help too.   That could explain the problem with the AccuSet.  If it encounters too much resistance, it will go to Error.

Also,  I think if you're in the "go to" mode, it probably don't make a difference if you push the up/down lever up or down.  It's still going to try to go to that setting.  At least it does in the Pattern mode when you under the last setting – you hit the down switch and it'll go up to the last program dimension.

If you're still having problems on Monday,  call Wood-Mizer and talk to Rick (a.k.a Sparks).

P.S.  We're of the "knock the tension" down group on the blade.   But our mill is under roof – if that makes any difference.  And most of the year we use it almost every day.   
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

bull

The mill was sending you a message!!!   Don't bother me it to freekin cold and I am not working... My mill will do the same thing when it hasn't been used and the temp is under 20 degrees...... wait for warmer weather or garage the mill...... She's only human!!!! :-\

DR_Buck

My blades are always left on the mill and have been since it was new 5 years ago.  I run the blade with full stream lubmizer until it's clean at the end of sawing.  Then I drop the tension to something less that 500psi on the gauge.      Any rust comes off on the 1st pass down the next log.
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

Chuck White

I never leave a band on my mill when I'm not sawing, even for a few hours!
I have found as MM stated they will rust wherever they are touching the belts!

I have had customers ask "why do you take the blade off at night"?  It's almost like I don't trust the customer, in their eyes!
My answer is always "if I leave it on, it will rust"!

~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Brucer

When I saw in really cold weather, I'll often find the carriage is "frozen" to the bed first thing in the morning. A little cautious pressure between the carriage and the mill with a 6' steel bar will break it free. After that it rolls just fine.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

bandmiller2

This may be blasphemous but I prefer a mill with dumb old hydraulics not low voltage motors, transducers, microswitches,and computers.When everything is working well their hard to beat but theirs too much that can/will go wrong with a machine that sits out in the weather.Flack jacket on Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

ljmathias

Frank, I pretty much agree with you on this discussion; maybe we should try to list modifications and options in order of increasing cost and complexity versus benefits?  I have no doubt that hydraulics add complexity, definitely add cost, but are totally worth it: had an LT30 manual and when I switched to an LT40 hydraulic, realized I'd never go back, no matter how much upkeep or repair was required- back and arms wouldn't let me (they get most of the votes in my work decisions nowadays).  Going to setworks and other fancy stuff?  Not so sure.  Might be a "law of diminishing returns" playing out here.  Sure, you can add a coffee maker to your sawmill, but does it really pay for itself in productivity, safety and enjoyment/satisfaction?

You don't need a flack jacket so much as a really big shovel for scooping up the...  just kidding!  :D :D

Lj
LT40, Long tractor with FEL and backhoe, lots of TF tools, beautiful wife of 50 years plus 4 kids, 5 grandsons AND TWO GRANDDAUGHTERS all healthy plus too many ideas and plans and not enough time and energy

Bibbyman

Well,  I'm kind of partial to the electric drive with V belts in the power chain.  When something gets bound and things won't move,  they tend to stall out or belt slip and nothing really gets hurt.  To really bust something take MORE POWER.  Also, in cold or hot weather, electric motors are constant.

We've got about 4500 hours on our LT40 Super and have only recently replaced the V belt on the head forward/reverse pulley.  We replaced a gearbox on the up/down drive system trying to solve another problem so I don't really think the old one was bad.  I've checked the brushes on the motors and they still had a lot of life left in them.

Wood-Mizer introduced a hydraulic drive mill a couple of years ago.  I don't think they've sold many of them.

Nothing works well in cold weather except making ice-cream.  I don't know how you guys in the frozen north manage working in prolonged cold weather.  Also, a machine setting is just looking for gremlins. 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

red oaks lumber

i like the idea of adding a coffee maker to the mill! cold weather brings out a host of problems. whats the saying an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of pain. up here we only have maybe 4 months before were back above freezing for good, thats not so bad, come on spring!!!!!!!!lol
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

ladylake

 10 above works here, the diesel starts and the hydraulics are a little sluggish for 10 or 15 minutes.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Bibbyman

Quote from: ladylake on December 20, 2009, 02:14:04 PM
10 above works here, the diesel starts and the hydraulics are a little sluggish for 10 or 15 minutes.   Steve

My hydraulics don't start working until it's above 40... ;)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Chuck White

I always thought that the real "gremlins" were the ones that raised the log stops when you weren't looking,
or raised one of the toe boards when you were half done with a cant!  ;D
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

pineywoods

Quote from: Chuck White on December 20, 2009, 03:08:49 PM
I always thought that the real "gremlins" were the ones that raised the log stops when you weren't looking,
or raised one of the tow boards when you were half done with a cant!  ;D

Dang them gremlins must migrate south for the winter. They've definitely visited my mill :o
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

ladylake

Quote from: Bibbyman on December 20, 2009, 03:03:33 PM
Quote from: ladylake on December 20, 2009, 02:14:04 PM
10 above works here, the diesel starts and the hydraulics are a little sluggish for 10 or 15 minutes.   Steve

My hydraulics don't start working until it's above 40... ;)

  Are you sure that it's the hydraulics that don't start working. Up here 20 above is a nice balmy day.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

LeeB

Quote from: pineywoods on December 20, 2009, 03:18:01 PM
Quote from: Chuck White on December 20, 2009, 03:08:49 PM
I always thought that the real "gremlins" were the ones that raised the log stops when you weren't looking,
or raised one of the tow boards when you were half done with a cant!  ;D

Dang them gremlins must migrate south for the winter. They've definitely visited my mill :o

Winter ain't got nothing to do with it. They live around my mill all year round.  >:(
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

bandmiller2

Them mill gremlins rat on you when you try to sneek anouther piece of machinery home.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

sdunston

I think the gremlins moved south because I sawed all dat today in the cold and the wind problem free except for the fact I am still freezing :-[, The wind was out of the east today,(most of the time from the west) so saw dust in the eyes was a factor and it sure filled the pockets with frozen dust, high temp today was 18deg
Stay warm, Sam
WM LT28, American fordge 18x8 planer,Orange and white chainsaws, NH TC33, IHT6 dozer, IH-H tractor and alot of other stuff that keeps me agravated trying to keep running

ljmathias

You guys keep reminding me why I moved South in the first place and why I'm so happy I did... can't take the cold anymore, at least the wet cold we have here.  We had a dry spell the other day and it was really nice- cold, sunny but didn't chill you to the bone.

And it's not the gremlins that rat on you, it's the disappearing funds from the checking acount blues that catch you (at least me... the wife balances every day to the penny, literally).  So, I have my own account, and when something gets sold, the money goes there- keeps the machines running, buys the supplies for the shop, and gifts the wife and kids as needed; and of course, that new tractor or truck engine as opportunity arises.

Christmas eve on Thursday, people: Merry and Happy and stay warm.

Lj
LT40, Long tractor with FEL and backhoe, lots of TF tools, beautiful wife of 50 years plus 4 kids, 5 grandsons AND TWO GRANDDAUGHTERS all healthy plus too many ideas and plans and not enough time and energy

woodmills1

gremlins come and gremlins go, you have to fix them
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

bull


zopi

Quote from: bull on December 21, 2009, 10:13:02 PM
spayed or nuetered

Clubbed.  One of those card suits anyhoo..
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

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