Trying to decide on chamber dimensions

[Southside]

So I have a KD250 on the way and I am trying to decide on exactly what dimensions to make my chamber.  I did read the operators guide that Nyle has on their website and now it's about as clear as mud to me on what I should build.

Typically I don't produce anything over 16' long, however there is nobody around who produces 20' KD material so I figure since my mill can do it then it would be a good idea to have the capacity in the kiln to be able to do it should the market be there for longer timber, unique flooring, siding, etc.  As a result I would like to have this capacity and plan on baffling it down most of the time otherwise.  

A lot of what will run through the kiln will either be 1" yellow pine, rather green I fear, or 1" reclaimed hardwood, of course you really can't get any more opposite spectrum there, but that is my market.  The reclaimed can run all sort of length as it comes from old beams, but I can usually sticker them into some what of an organized stack from 8' - 16' with most being in the 10' long area.    

I don't see the usual charge being 4000' of hard wood, but 1,500 ft of pine is not a problem, so again with the baffling.  I am going to set the chamber off the mill building the long way and use a cart system as that lets me keep everything under roof either off the saw or from the time it backs in on a flat bed until it leaves again.  I plan to put a set of doors on one side as well so should the opportunity be there to air dry first and then finish in the kiln, especially for pine, then I can eliminate some labor.   

Anyway I thought I would ask what others have built, what they would do differently if they did it again, etc.  Any advice is greatly appreciated here.

Thanks

[YellowHammer]

I'd build a reefer container, with two 18 foot long carts tied together, you could dry up to 36 feet long.  Use drop down tarps as baffles, and done.  This is how mine is configured.  

[YellowHammer]

Here's a lot more info, a topic "High Cube Reefer Kiln Build" on the complete construction and usage process.  I have put a load through this kiln about every 7-9 days since I built it, and it works like a champ.  Very simple and predictable, zero maintenance so far, other than the canvas tarps have been replaced once. 

 http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=82071.msg1472052#msg1472052

So the WM KD250 is a Nyle 200, a workhorse.  A normal, painted Corten steel shipping container is designed to passivate (rust) so will be eaten out in a few years due to the acidic nature of the kiln vapors.  A high cube reefer has a stainless interior, aluminum floor, and aluminum exterior.  The insulation is still sound after years of usage, and it looks as good as it did the day I installed it.  I had the container company replace the door seals when I bought it, and they are still in new condition.  The extra height of the High Cube will get the capacity up, and the stacks should only be 42" wide to get proper airflow.

Also, the capacities listed in the literature are correct but don't tell the whole story.  Its 1,500 of green softwood, but if the pine has been air dried, or better yet, fan dried, then it will take a full 4,000 bdft load at a time.  Fan drying pine will only take a few weeks, and will eliminate sticker stain and save money running the kiln.

With an insulated container, I've never need any extra heat.  My other stick built kiln, however, needs it.      

[Southside]

Well, a box kiln it is.  I found and paid for a 40' HC reefer box today, like YH said, aluminum exterior skin and floor with stainless inside.  Delivered here for 11 SGU's, cheaper than I could stick build something I figure and a whole lot less time.  Need to lay the pad for it so they can drop it early next week.  Fed-Ex freight called and said they have my 250 ready to deliver so all the pieces will be here pretty soon.

I can get crushed clam shells cheaper than 57's or crushed concrete, but they won't have a trailer load ready for a month, so the rail road portion will have to wait a little bit, the first couple of loads won't be much fun for sure, but from reading the other post Yellow Hammer did I have plenty of work ahead of me so maybe in the end it won't make a difference.  

The Wilsons Mills spur line depot is about to become a reality!!  

[YellowHammer]

Congratulations, you will really like this design for long wood, or any kind for that matter.  If you haven't built some, I'd fabricate two pallets of skids, open bottom. 16 inch center, 42 (not 48 inch) wide.  These will be used as templates for when you make the carts, to make sure they fit in the right positions, two to a rail cart.

Make sure you spend extra time getting the crossties dead flat in the gravel, which is pretty easy if you have a laser level or transit and pull strings across the tops.  That way when the guy delivers the container, he just drops it in place and is done.   

[Southside]

YH -

I am not going to run it full length at first, I have several pine orders to address, so I figured I would create a portable bulkhead wall that can be placed in to shorten the overall chamber when needed.  What is the correct clearance to leave at the end and beginning of the stacks?

I do plan to shamelessly steal a bunch of your ideas from the other post.  

Thanks

[Southside]

@YellowHammer  What spacing / arrangement did you use for the RR ties under the container and track? Thanks

[YellowHammer]

Seems like there is about a foot or,two on either side of the stacks on the cart.  It's just enough to walk abround.  I cut a two foot wide strip of the the canvas tarp and attached it to the end of the fan baffle so it would drape down between the wall and the stack of wood.  It makes an ok  seal, but is so easy I don't want to try anything better.  
I don't remember the spacing on the crossties, I'll measure them tomorrow. 

[samandothers]

Look forward to following your your progress!

[YellowHammer]

The ties under the container are at 5 foot intervals, and the ties under the track are at 3 foot intervals.  I didn't really worry about the exterior track part until I had the container set and perfect, because its floor is 11 inches higher than ground level, and I worked the track ties to match its floor height after install.  A transit or a good laser level was invaluable, as both tracks need to sit dead level, because I didn't want to have a runaway train.  Setting the ties went pretty easy, I have hard clay right under the grass, so I scraped down to it.  Then a bed of washed gravel with no fines, so it won't settle, level it out, lay the ties on the surface of the gravel, leveling and fine tuning as necessary, then backfill all the gaps between them with more gravel.  Just like a RR bed.  When they put the container on it, in sat flat as a pancake when it landed.  It still hasn't settled at all that I can detect, after these years.
If you use unwashed gravel, it will settle so needs to be compacted.

[rjwoelk]

What is the R rate on the walls. And floor , ceiling.

[YellowHammer]

From what I've found it's R14 for two inches, however, most of the heat in my stick built kiln is lost through the door seals, and reefers are designed for continuous sub zero operation, so the seals are double and triple lipped. Very tight.

I lose most of my heat through the Nyle vents, and duct tape them in the winter during the sterilization cycle.  

[Southside]

I was told by the yard that sold me the container that it is rated at R20, but it's not here yet so I can't verify that.  The stone and kiln unit itself arrive tomorrow.  The RR ties on Wednesday so my plan is to have the bed set by this time next week at the latest so I can get them to deliver the box next week.  

[YellowHammer]

I didn't realize the R value is that high.  Either way, it works nice.

Did you get the Nyle kiln cart wheels for riding on the angle iron tracks? They are excellent.  

[PA_Walnut]

OK...so, now I've changed my mind on my new stick-built kiln also. Same unit, so wish to do the reefer also.
Where can I obtain one? I've looked a couple of times locally, to no avail.
THanks!

[Southside]

Did you get the Nyle kiln cart wheels for riding on the angle iron tracks? They are excellent

Not yet - when I ordered the unit I was going to build a chamber, but things have changed so I do need to call and order wheels.  Thanks

[Southside]

OK...so, now I've changed my mind on my new stick-built kiln also. Same unit, so wish to do the reefer also.
Where can I obtain one? I've looked a couple of times locally, to no avail.
THanks!

The best response I got was from Container Management Group, they have a yard in Virginia Beach and I believe Philly, along with others.  I tried all the CL listings, private "yard owners", etc.  Got some outrageous prices from a few brokers who are really just truckers that buy a unit with your money then mark up and deliver it.  

[K-Guy]

You can expect to pay around $8000 for container. Try Western Container Sales in Norfolk, or Container Alliance.

[YellowHammer]

I Craigslisted some of the big cities next to shipping ports, as they have thousands of these, and talked to them.  When they found me one in their inventory, (it had a bad refrigeration unit) they took it out of service, salvaged the cooling system to lower my price, and then had it shipped to their nearest distribution rail yard in their network.  

I only just had to hire a local guy to fetch it at their yard and bring it the last 30 miles.  

[Southside]

I paid 11 SGU's for mine delivered.

[Southside]

Nyle did not say they shipped in "discreet packaging for my privacy"  ;D


 

[YellowHammer]

Some assembly required. :D

It's amazing how a few cardboard boxes of stuff can turn into a working kiln, but it does.  

[Southside]

Well, no cardboard boxes to discreetly hide the contents, but more critical parts are now here. 


 

[PA_Walnut]

Well, no cardboard boxes to discreetly hide the contents, but more critical parts are now here.  

The railroad at the bottom of my hill was replacing ties yesterday, so I tried to score some of the old ones. No deal. :-\ Foreman told me that they are sold before they even come up. "A truck follows behind us". Gonna try to find said truck today and see what I can work out.

Here's a glimpse of their ops. There's about 6-7 different machines, each with a task. Pretty cool to watch. This one was sliding the old ties out from their resting spot.

[flatrock58]

Has anyone looked into the Nyle container kiln?  https://www.nyle.com/lumber-drying-systems/lumber-kiln-drying/container-kilns/