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Author Topic: LT35HD alignment issue  (Read 3324 times)

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Offline Deere80

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LT35HD alignment issue
« on: March 27, 2018, 10:26:06 AM »
To give you some history when I got this new a year ago it was cutting a 1/8" thicker on the tail end of the mill than the head end (hitch side) of the mill.  So example if I put a log up and cut a 6" cant out of this 12' log when I got done cutting the cant it would be 6" on head side and 6 1/8" on the tail end.  But if I wanted to cut boards out of that cant all the boards would come out the same thickness as I went down on the cant other than the last board would be an 1/8" thicker on the tail end.  So I thought that maybe a didn't have enough down pressure on the jacks on the tail end so I put more pressure on them and adjusted the other ones to compensate but that didn't do anything.  Then I put a straight edge across the rails, on the 1st and 3rd,it is 1/8" lower than the second and forth, I am not counting the first swinging or the last swinging rails. So straight lined the four stationary rails   that didn't help.  Then I just lived with it and cut for a couple more months because I mostly just cut for my own use and do not cut much thru winter so last weekend I did a complete alignment by what the manual tells you to do other than I did not put on new drive belts(I only have 43 hours on the mill).  That helped but it is still 1/16" off now on the tail end and I adjusted all the bed rails again and when you lay a straight edge across them the first and third are 1/8" higher than the second and forth.  I took some pictures so the pictures are in order from the first to the forth rail.  This is getting frustrating, I know it isn't much but would like it to be perfect. 

 

 

 

 

 
Wood-Mizer LT35HD

Offline Deere80

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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2018, 10:38:44 AM »
Also the measurement from the blade to all the rails is the exact measurement so how can two of them be lower?
Wood-Mizer LT35HD

Online Southside logger

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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2018, 11:04:02 AM »
Check your rail to see if it's straight or crowned.
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Offline Deere80

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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2018, 11:12:56 AM »
I put a straight edge on them and they are straight.
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Offline POSTON WIDEHEAD

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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2018, 11:28:14 AM »
Anything you saw needs to be supported (under the cant) at least within an inch of the end of your cant.

If your blade is in line and the bed is level and you get the same distance from blade to bed then your cant may not be properly supported on the end or you have sawdust or chips under your cant.
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Offline uler3161

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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2018, 11:28:44 AM »
How confident are you that the cant in your photo is perfectly straight? Though, I suspect that much difference is more than just a wavy cut.

Also, I wonder what it looks like if you took the same photos with the cant on the loader side of the rails.

Any chance when you measured from blade down to the rail that your tape measure was angled? I always use a tape, but now that I think about it, putting a machinist square on the rail and bringing the head down to touch the square, then just move the square and head down to each rail would probably be the best way to know they were all at equal height.
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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2018, 11:48:17 AM »
I put a straight edge on them and they are straight.
I was referring to the main rail / frame that the head rides on.
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Offline Deere80

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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2018, 12:03:23 PM »
Anything you saw needs to be supported (under the cant) at least within an inch of the end of your cant.

If your blade is in line and the bed is level and you get the same distance from blade to bed then your cant may not be properly supported on the end or you have sawdust or chips under your cant.
There is nothing under the cant, and it isn't stress in the log either.  So why would I get the same measurement from blade to rail on all of them but when you straight line it from end of mill to end of mill the rails are at different height?
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Offline Deere80

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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2018, 12:04:32 PM »
Check your rail to see if it's straight or crowned.
Sorry, I did not do that yet but can string line that also.
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Offline Deere80

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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2018, 12:07:54 PM »
How confident are you that the cant in your photo is perfectly straight? Though, I suspect that much difference is more than just a wavy cut.

Also, I wonder what it looks like if you took the same photos with the cant on the loader side of the rails.

Any chance when you measured from blade down to the rail that your tape measure was angled? I always use a tape, but now that I think about it, putting a machinist square on the rail and bringing the head down to touch the square, then just move the square and head down to each rail would probably be the best way to know they were all at equal height.
I used a string line when I checked them but that did not show up as good when I took pictures so that is why I used the board and It shows the same.
Loader side shows the same.
I used a 2 foot square and read my measurement off the square.
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2018, 12:47:47 PM »
I use a square too, but that takes care of measurement in one plane, the square could be leaning over not 90 degrees, not shortest distance, in the other plane. Especially a framing square.   I use the 32nd scale on a Starrett 12" combination square that sets flat on the rail but still pay attention to it being straight up and down in the plane it could be leaning in. Also I write down the numbers when checking multiple rails or if getting frustrated. Have my glasses on too.

I would ditch the string, straightedge, and levels from the procedure.  These set up conflicting standards and opportunity for inappropriate adjustments.

Distance from the band to each rail accurately and properly measured.  Once you know the blade travels parallel to the bunks then it becomes an issue of setup of the mill which is largely taken care of by sighting the main rail by eye from either end.   It is not hard with practice to be able to see whether your rail is straight over 26 feet.  But you have to remember that the head weight will deform the rail as it goes along, if the footing isn't solid under each support.  

Cant size within 1/16 at either end of 12 feet is a worthy but stringent goal.  That's one of the tests for adjustment of the jacks in a sawmill setup.  But understand that is necessary for stiff cants or beams not necessarily for 1x and 2x lumber that are flexible and lie flat on the rails even if the sawmill bed has some arch or dip in it.  
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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2018, 01:26:57 PM »
After you get everything perfectly aligned, never discount the fact that logs/cants release stress (energy) as boards are taken off.  Very often sawing one board off will allow the entire remaining cant to move.
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Offline Deere80

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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2018, 02:00:55 PM »
After you get everything perfectly aligned, never discount the fact that logs/cants release stress (energy) as boards are taken off.  Very often sawing one board off will allow the entire remaining cant to move.
MM I thought that was my issue at first and I am sure it affects it some times but it does it every time even with logs that I know do not have any stress. What puzzles me is the rails are the same height from the blade but when your cutting the cant is not touching them all.  So you can cut a cant and start cutting the boards off the cant and they are perfect from one end to the other but the last board that is laying on the rails is the one that is thicker on the tail end.  So if my rail that the head rides on (main frame) would be not straight or the frame flexing from not enough support on the jacks then when I would be cutting boards off the cant they would not be perfect.  It is just the last board you cut or if you want to cut a square cant with a cut edge laying on the rail. 
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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2018, 02:17:22 PM »
Quote
even with logs that I know do not have any stress
Not arguing, but how do you know this?

Quote
but the last board that is laying on the rails is the one that is thicker on the tail end
Your example is the perfect case of a cant that is not supported all of the way to the far end.  A cant will sometime sag downward as it is being sawn making each board slightly thinner on the ends.  And then when you get to the dog board, guess what?  It is thicker on the end.  It's additional thickness is distributed among the slightly thinner boards that have been taken off.

I am not saying that this is your situation, but it is something that will absolutely happen and has to be watched for.  If it has not happened to you yet, then it will and often sooner than later.

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Offline Deere80

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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2018, 03:37:22 PM »
MM, your right I can not prove that it doe not have stress but it happens every time so I wouldn't think every log would do the same exact thing.  I had a four post sawmill before this one and never had  that issue.

I am by far not a experienced sawyer by no means that is why I might have some dumb questions.

So can you explain to me why I have the same measurement from bottom of blade to all the rails like the manual tells you to do but when you have a cant laying on them the cant touches every other rail and is not laying flat on every rail? 

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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2018, 04:05:19 PM »
I put a straight edge on them and they are straight.
I was referring to the main rail / frame that the head rides on.
Check the main beam for deflection in its length.  The saw head may be riding the same distance from the individual bunks but the main beam may have sag in the middle.  So the head could riding in a bit of an arc.  Level would not be a bad place to start to ensure your adjustments are correct.
I had cants that were out of square.  One of the problems was how the mill was supported.  I reset all the jacks and that helped.  It is hard to believe as beefy as these frames are that you might get twist or sag, but apparently it happens.
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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2018, 04:13:24 PM »
 It is hard to believe as beefy as these frames are that you might get twist or sag, but apparently it happens.
I don't believe it....unless the mills has been damaged.  :)
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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2018, 04:18:42 PM »


I am by far not a experienced sawyer by no means that is why I might have some dumb questions.


Deere, we all respect your frustration and I promise you I have been in your position.....lots of times.
You're questions are NOT dumb and a lot of people that have not even replied to your questions are reading every word of your thread to learn something. Trust me.
Hang in there.....it'll get figured out.  :)
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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2018, 04:36:07 PM »
 
 If the bunks are uneven and the blade is the same distance from each bunk I'd be checking the round rod that the cam followers ride on for being uneven. There was a vid on youtube where they had to cut all the welds on that rod and re level it.  There is no mill made that the frame wont twist or sag without good supports from the jacks.  No matter what some are led to believe.  Steve 
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: LT35HD alignment issue
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2018, 04:39:43 PM »
Yes, hang in there.  Figuring this out is about understanding the possible variables and knowing what observations you can trust. 

For example, your observation that the band is the same height above all the bunks, but some of the bunks are lower than others, the only way that can be true is if your band is going up and down as you push the head over the higher and lower bunks. The only way I can imagine that happening on your mill, is if the main rail of the mill is not straight and the head is riding on it up and down in the manner you describe.  Sighting along this rail I think you should be easily able to see this-the rail not being straight- if it were there.  But if this were the case, then you would also see this by sighting along the cut line you just made, it would also not be straight. 

ps Ladylake just said it too, and shorter. 
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