LT35HD alignment issue

Mt406 · March 28, 2018, 01:27:01 AM

I have a LT35 also and have a similar problem a slight high spot almost center line of mill.
And yes the mill is set up correctly.
I work on a concrete slab so I have wood blocks under the ends if one works out I know instantly I will have a big hump in the middle.
I Have a 12 ft strait edge when I lay it down round rod it will rock from side to side.
I cut mainly 1x and 2x and haven't had any complaint's it just drives me nuts.
Hoping you find a answer and maybe I can learn something to.

Scott

John S · March 28, 2018, 08:05:19 AM

Like WV said, the mill is under warranty, bring it in and have the experts check it out. Why go through all the aggravation and guess work?

Deere80 · March 28, 2018, 08:47:35 AM

Quote from: John S on March 28, 2018, 08:05:19 AM
Like WV said, the mill is under warranty, bring it in and have the experts check it out. Why go through all the aggravation and guess work?

I live 10 hours away from the dealer so I do not want to drive back if all possible.

Deere80 · March 28, 2018, 08:58:35 AM

Last night I took a 6ft level because that is the longest I have and started running it down the rod the mill rides on to see if I have any dips or bends in it and when I got above the axle where I always get the bad cut in, the rod is bent down and out. I took some pictures so you can see. Then I took the pressure off the jacks on the rear and it did not change it a bit. The level shows the same thing when I put it on the big tubing of the frame where the rod is welded to, it is bent down. I am only using the level for a long straight edge not looking at the bubble. So do I call the dealer and see what he has to say or is it something else. You can see with the naked eye when you look down the rod that it has a bow outward, you can not see it dip down though.

SawyerTed · March 28, 2018, 09:07:40 AM

Yes your next call should be to the dealer. Give them an opportunity to respond with a solution.

Magicman · March 28, 2018, 09:45:15 AM

Absolutely call the dealer and supply him with the pictures. It's disheartening but at least you now know what the problem is.

YellowHammer · March 28, 2018, 10:51:24 AM

Call em, let us know what they say.

Deere80 · March 28, 2018, 11:27:55 AM

Talked to the dealer he thinks it is a set up issue but referred me to headquarters tech support so will be contacting them.

terrifictimbersllc · March 28, 2018, 11:43:29 AM

Quote from: Deere80 on March 28, 2018, 11:27:55 AM
Talked to the dealer he thinks it is a set up issue but referred me to headquarters tech support so will be contacting them.

Probably ought to get a convincing pic of the place the rail dips down for your interaction with WM. 2 of your pics show the end or most of the level up in the air and from the photo I cant see why that is. If there is a dip, can you not span the dip with the 6' straightedge to show it?
Sideways bend won't make a difference for what you have mentioned so far.
Just throwing out 2 other things hoping to help. In a proper setup the mill needs to be jacked up enough so that at least some if not most or all of the weight is taken off of the axle spring. If you see the feed motor rubbing on the tire as it goes past in a 1" cut, it isn't jacked high enough. Also I think you mentioned earlier that your mill cuts perfect lumber except for the last board. If you had a dip in the rail that matters, then you should have a dip in the lumber or cant at that place.

Deere80 · March 28, 2018, 12:23:31 PM

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on March 28, 2018, 11:43:29 AM
Quote from: Deere80 on March 28, 2018, 11:27:55 AM
Talked to the dealer he thinks it is a set up issue but referred me to headquarters tech support so will be contacting them.
Probably ought to get a convincing pic of the place the rail dips down for your interaction with WM. 2 of your pics show the end or most of the level up in the air and from the photo I cant see why that is. If there is a dip, can you not span the dip with the 6' straightedge to show it?
Sideways bend won't make a difference for what you have mentioned so far.
Just throwing out 2 other things hoping to help. In a proper setup the mill needs to be jacked up enough so that at least some if not most or all of the weight is taken off of the axle spring. If you see the feed motor rubbing on the tire as it goes past in a 1" cut, it isn't jacked high enough. Also I think you mentioned earlier that your mill cuts perfect lumber except for the last board. If you had a dip in the rail that matters, then you should have a dip in the lumber or cant at that place.

The level is being held tight down to the round rod for the first foot of the level, in the 6 foot of the level that is how much it is not straight on the rod if that makes sense. I will try tonight when I get home from work to put more pressure than I even have on the rear jack to see if that makes any difference.

Yes it is just in the last board, but even tech support could not explain why I have the same measurement from the bottom of the back of the blade to the rails and come up with the same measurement but if I take a log make a cut, roll it 180 degrees so that cut is laying on the rails why is the first and the third rail lower than the second and forth(talking just the solid mounted rails not your swinging ones). Tech guy is referring this to his supervisor now. I wish I didn't live so far from the dealer.

terrifictimbersllc · March 28, 2018, 12:30:18 PM

Yes that makes sense. But what you've shown so far in the photos I wouldn't call a dip. That's what I would expect to be able to jack out by lifting up on the end of the frame with the jacks. Not saying I think you don't have a problem. But with my mill I can, with the jacks and the weight of the head, make either a dip or a crown over the length of the main rail which depends on the setup. Mostly during a sawing day, I am correcting once or twice for a falloff at one end or the other. This is over one or the other of the swing rails, not the fixed ones.

I can't explain your high-low-high-low bunk issue. If there is an experienced sawyer esp. a WM owner, closer who could drop by maybe he could help spot the issue.

Kbeitz · March 28, 2018, 07:35:04 PM

Even the strongest beams if long enough will bend...

BEAM FALLS OFF TRUCK | FLIPS TRUCK | OVERSIZE LOAD | BAD DAY AT WORK? - YouTube

Southside · March 28, 2018, 08:36:03 PM

Well - the beam was well secured to the tractor, no question there.

Josef · March 28, 2018, 09:26:14 PM

Interesting anomaly, if the top round bar is truly offset sideways as the OP suspects (which while improbable is not technically impossible if the welding jig was disturbed during fabrication) then the sawmill head vertical mast could tilt sideways in that section of the mill. This could allow the blade to rise or fall in relation to the bed in that section. If the OP was aligning the bunks to the blade they would follow the blade horizontal plane and be uneven over the length of the mill. All said I'd be interested in what WM finds in this case, I don't have a WM mill but have the utmost respect for the manufacturer and the design. Please keep us updated on your and WM's determination.

I'm told one of the advantages of the monopost configuration is the ability to saw straight lumber even if the mill is not perfectly level, the WM mills I've run were quite stiff and rigid in their beam construction. I'd be surprised if you could twist that beam enough with the leveling feet to cause the offset in the round bar that appears in the OP's pics if the pics truly represent that offset. Interesting.

Joe

POSTON WIDEHEAD · March 28, 2018, 09:32:04 PM

If the legs are down on hard ground and and the bed is level the only way that beam can be twisted is it had to be hit pretty hard with something to bend it.

Southside · March 28, 2018, 09:45:06 PM

Now the rest of the story comes out, the whole "I jumped out of the back hoe and landed on a chunk of asphalt" was just a cover to you head butting his mill. It is true goats will climb on anything. :D

Crossroads · March 29, 2018, 10:06:09 AM

I have had a couple of times where I had the last board be thin on one end and correct on the other. The first thing I noticed was the can't wasn't touching the bunk on the front of the mill.First I thought it was debris under the log. Nope! Then I thought it was stress in the wood and made sure to flip the cant, but the gap was still there. Next I thought one of the bed rails was high and holding the end up. After several checks, I only found about 1/32" of variance. So, now the head scratching really begins. Then I read this post the other day and whenI set my mill up yesterday, I looked down the beam and could see a definite crown in the round rod. I gave the back outrigger one more notch and the crown went away. That will definitely be a step in every setup from here on out. Thank you for posting this thread, I was pulling out what little hair I have left..

Deere80 · March 29, 2018, 11:42:08 AM

When I talked to the tech support guy at Wood-Mizer yesterday he told me there is supposed to be a crown up and out on the rod, that is the way they are made for any of you that did not know that. I did not know that I thought it way supposed to be straight. I still haven't heard anything back from them though.

uler3161 · March 29, 2018, 12:09:04 PM

Have you tried putting your cant or straight line across the rails when the head is in the middle of the mill? I wonder if the weight of the head at the right point will straighten it out. Perhaps that's the reasoning for the crown. Maybe having no crown will cause it to dip in the middle when the head gets there. Just a theory.

ladylake · March 29, 2018, 01:44:30 PM

Quote from: Deere80 on March 29, 2018, 11:42:08 AM
When I talked to the tech support guy at Wood-Mizer yesterday he told me there is supposed to be a crown up and out on the rod, that is the way they are made for any of you that did not know that. I did not know that I thought it way supposed to be straight. I still haven't heard anything back from them though.

Sounds like you are getting the run around, I'd send it back and have them straighten that rod and then realign the bunks. Steve

Remle · March 29, 2018, 03:29:42 PM

Quote from: Josef on March 28, 2018, 09:26:14 PM
Interesting anomaly, if the top round bar is truly offset sideways as the OP suspects (which while improbable is not technically impossible if the welding jig was disturbed during fabrication) then the sawmill head vertical mast could tilt sideways in that section of the mill. This could allow the blade to rise or fall in relation to the bed in that section. If the OP was aligning the bunks to the blade they would follow the blade horizontal plane and be uneven over the length of the mill. All said I'd be interested in what WM finds in this case, I don't have a WM mill but have the utmost respect for the manufacturer and the design. Please keep us updated on your and WM's determination.

I'm told one of the advantages of the monopost configuration is the ability to saw straight lumber even if the mill is not perfectly level, the WM mills I've run were quite stiff and rigid in their beam construction. I'd be surprised if you could twist that beam enough with the leveling feet to cause the offset in the round bar that appears in the OP's pics if the pics truly represent that offset. Interesting.

Joe

IMHO, I agree with Joe's assessment of the cause and effect of the rod being offset at different points along the length of the beam. While crown can be a matter of support the horizontal alignment of the rod is a different matter. Looking at my WM mill both the top and bottom rods are straight and proud of the beam's side, equal distances of the edge of the rod hanging over the beam. Hang a square over the top rail and compare this along the lenght of the beam. Any big deviations will certianly stick out. If as you suspect their are significant differances, then IMHO it would be a manufacturing issue.

Southside · March 29, 2018, 04:08:09 PM

Having a built in crown does not surprise me at all, look at a flat bed semi trailer when it is unloaded - crowned in the middle. I suspect the outward deflection in the round rod serves to act as a torsion rod to only allow the frame to flex to a certain point when loaded with a log.

If you read the alignment specifications the outward side of the head is also higher than the inward side to allow for flex from the force of the band in the wood.

At the end of the day if you are still convinced that the issue is with the mill and not stress in the cant you could always get a S4S dried beam, say poplar or white pine, that has a dead center pith, straight grain, no knots, etc and try sawing it, new band with tension right, and see what happens.

These machines put out high quality lumber, but at the end of the day it is still considered to be rough sawn. What looks like perfection becomes a bit less when you start to run a moulder, does not matter what saw it came off of.

starmac · March 29, 2018, 04:13:59 PM

I can agree with most mentioned in this thread, but none of it means it couldn't be a factory defect either, it happens to any manufacturer.

Deere80 · April 10, 2018, 12:56:04 PM

UPDATE..

Talked with Woodmizer at Indy and was referred to a Supervisor because the tech could not help me.

Supervisor had me try a few things which didn't change anything and told me the saw is cutting with in specs. If the saw cuts with in 1/8" it is what they consider rough cut lumber. As far as the bunks being high low high low he can't explain that. He said that was impossible to be. So I really got no where.

They were all decent to talk to but I have not got any where yet.

redneckman · April 10, 2018, 08:43:37 PM

Deere,
First of all. thanks for begining this post. It has a ton of good info and discussion in it. I have a 2017 LT 50. My mill has 30 hrs on it. I was sawing for a cutomer last week, and I noticed a couple of differnt things. One, was when I used the pattern mode, the last baord was just a little thinner on one end than on the other. The other thing I noticed had to do with the speed. If I set it really slow, once it got over the axle it would stop. I would have to speed it up a little to get it going. It was like it was riding over a hump in the frame, which makes sense to what has been posted. I figured the frame was crowned a little because I was siting on really soft dirt.

Stick with me here a minute. The cantilever design of a WM consists of the head moving along the beam. So, if the beam is straight, the head should move straight with it. So, set your mill up. Forget the level. Levels can get off. If someone went crazy on the paint on the mill in one spot and got it thick, it could through you off a little too. Move the head all the way to the front (tongue end). Tie a string from the bottom of the head to the other end of the mill, just off the rail. Slide a 3/4" thick block between the string and the frame at the head and the end of the mill. Do the same at the tail end. The 3/4 block sets the line off the frame 3/4". The string will be perfectly straight. Take a third 3/4" black and use it a guage block along the rail of the mill. Slide it between the rail and the line at every cross rail. The line should just kiss the block. If it is out, you will see the string down on the face of the block, or a gap between the line and the block. Use the levelers to get it perfectly straight. You can use a level to level it side to side.

Your situation reminds me of a shop teacher I had one time. He said that if you need to do good work, make a jig. Once you get the rail perfectly straight, make you a jig that you can slide down the rail and check the height of each cross rail off the main rail. If your main rail is straight, the height of each cross rail off the main rail should be the same all the way down the mill. If not, adjust it.

Once you a 100% sure that the cross memebers a set correctly, you can start the process of elimination. Just the other day, I had a bolt to fall out of my barker. The rest of the bolts were very loose. If someone left one of the cross rails on your mill loose, and if you loaded a heavy log with a knot on it that came done on that one rail, I could see how it would knock it out of adjustment.

Sometimes a simple string can do miralces. The Egyptians proved that. There is a simple explaniation for your troubles.

Hope this helps.