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Author Topic: Diesel on the Rise  (Read 4725 times)

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Offline POSTON WIDEHEAD

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Diesel on the Rise
« on: March 30, 2018, 09:09:48 PM »
I called and had them fill up my mill tank today.
Bought 200 gallons for $500.

The guy said glad you got it when you did. Its gonna keep going up.  :o :o :o
Where's the Spoon?

Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2018, 09:33:10 PM »
Do you use off road, no tax stuff??
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Offline PA_Walnut

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2018, 09:43:27 PM »
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
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Offline sawguy21

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2018, 09:52:47 PM »
Onroad diesel is staying constant at least for the moment. Gasoline is all over the map, I think the execs get wired on espresso and throw darts at the morning meeting.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline POSTON WIDEHEAD

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2018, 10:06:55 PM »
Do you use off road, no tax stuff??
Yes
Where's the Spoon?

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2018, 06:30:00 AM »
Crude is up about 50% since last June.  The boys from the Middle East turn back the taps to raise the price of crude and better their bottom line.  The price fell when ISIS took over some of the oil fields and was using crude to fund their army.  The Saudis opened the taps to bring down the price.  In addition, a lot of US crude came onto the market, which swelled supply.  The ISIS factor has changed.

In recent months, the value of the dollar has dropped about 5% since November.  That adds a bit more to the price of crude.  Currently, the Chinese are going to add crude to their commodity trading.  They're trying to bust the petro-dollar cycle and deal directly with oil producers by using the yuan.  That might also add a bit to the price by driving down the dollar.  

According to the local gas station, diesel is just home heating oil with tax.  The usual trend is for diesel to go up in the winter as more homes are using heat than AC.  That causes more demand for diesel, and that sends the price up.  Winter is hanging on a little longer than normal this year, so the price hasn't gone back down yet.
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2018, 06:51:07 AM »
Yes, all the same, off road has no tax and is red.
2008 LT40 super,2008 edger, Cat telahandler, JD 5410 And can cut up to 45' long
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Offline snowstorm

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2018, 07:40:59 AM »
its not all the same. on and off road is uls. heating oil is not according to my fuel supplier. there was talk of it. dont think its happened yet. thats why off road is higher priced than heating oil. the cheapest way to get off road is to buy on rd and apply for the tax refund from the state and fed

Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2018, 07:57:02 AM »
Oil producing countries that sell to the US try to walk the fine line where they can get a premium for their crude and still keep the price per barrel just under where its not quite profitable enough to cause extensive new drilling or extracting to get underway.  Banjo
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Offline Matt601

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2018, 08:01:38 AM »
Crude is up about 50% since last June.  The boys from the Middle East turn back the taps to raise the price of crude and better their bottom line.  The price fell when ISIS took over some of the oil fields and was using crude to fund their army.  The Saudis opened the taps to bring down the price.  In addition, a lot of US crude came onto the market, which swelled supply.  The ISIS factor has changed.

In recent months, the value of the dollar has dropped about 5% since November.  That adds a bit more to the price of crude.  Currently, the Chinese are going to add crude to their commodity trading.  They're trying to bust the petro-dollar cycle and deal directly with oil producers by using the yuan.  That might also add a bit to the price by driving down the dollar.  

According to the local gas station, diesel is just home heating oil with tax.  The usual trend is for diesel to go up in the winter as more homes are using heat than AC.  That causes more demand for diesel, and that sends the price up.  Winter is hanging on a little longer than normal this year, so the price hasn't gone back down yet.
Oil dropped because of rising in US oil out put and Iran trade was lifted. That put 1.5 million bbls on to the open market which drove prices down. Iran has more oil than anyone in the middle east. There just so far behind the rest of the world they cant produce that much.  
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Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2018, 08:28:01 AM »
its not all the same. on and off road is uls. heating oil is not according to my fuel supplier. 
Guess it all depends who you believe and who the supplier is. My supplier, off road and heating oil is all the same. When he delivers to the farm he fills my bulk tank and heating oil tank with the same stuff. 

Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2018, 09:58:14 AM »
My off rd was $2.09.9 last July with a $.10 per gallon discount for cash and home heating oil about $.50 more due to taxes.
I'm sure I'll pay substantially more this yr.
My 150 gal tank usually lasts me the year between the mill, tractor and RTV.
I use very little at the house.
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2018, 12:34:50 PM »
The load I just got 4 weeks ago came off the boat, [Portsmith NH] 2/3 Diesel 1/3 kerosene, Winter blend. ;D
2008 LT40 super,2008 edger, Cat telahandler, JD 5410 And can cut up to 45' long
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Offline bodagocreek2

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2018, 01:23:27 PM »
when they would fill our locomotive switch engine it was just #2 off the truck. He would leave a gallon of red dye to dump in the tank, now it was off road.

Offline snowstorm

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2018, 05:16:27 PM »
look on the epa website. it says off road must be uls. fuel truck comes every 2 weeks when the law went into effect the driver said it was a 10k fine for putting heating oil in the off rd tank

Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2018, 07:13:54 PM »
My fuel guy has told me numerous times that it is the same stuff and there is no difference from his distributor thus no difference from him... said it makes his life easier as he has one less product to worry about seperating.

Offline gspren

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2018, 07:56:01 AM »
  I'll add to the confusion between off-road and heating. My oil supplier can sometimes get the older style low sulfur heating oil but often has to get the ultra low sulfur so if you ask him if it is the same he says "sometimes".
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Offline PAmizerman

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2018, 11:56:52 AM »
Yes, all the same, off road has no tax and is red.
Tell that to PA. The state now taxes off road. I think I need to move
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Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2018, 12:22:55 PM »
no dog in this, but, fuel oil sees to have a lower ignition point than diesel, only a time or two that I experience it making back fire fuel.
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Offline barbender

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2018, 01:31:31 PM »
Up here it is all the same, except off road and home heating get the dye.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Ken

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2018, 02:50:54 PM »
The price of diesel is making a substantial dent in the bottom line.  What I can't figure out is that when fuel took a large jump in 2013-14 the price of a barrel of oil was north of $125 as opposed to todays price which is less than 70  I'm not very smart but the math doesn't add up ::)
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Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2018, 07:07:35 PM »
Exactly Ken.  I try to stay informed as to whats happening on the world scene, and I have not heard any real reason why diesel is making the jump. Gas too for that matter.  We do have one gas burner car and a wielder.  Banjo
Cooks AC 36--Prentice 210C--Morgan edger--Kubota M7040 with loader--Case 580 K with extendahoe--Case 850C dozer--Int 1700 series twin cylinder dump/log/flatbed truck--logging arch--2 Logrite mill sp.--Cat claw sharpening system--And a bulldog to make sure it all stays here.

Offline coxy

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2018, 08:16:59 PM »
My off rd was $2.09.9 last July with a $.10 per gallon discount for cash and home heating oil about $.50 more due to taxes.
I'm sure I'll pay substantially more this yr.
My 150 gal tank usually lasts me the year between the mill, tractor and RTV.
I use very little at the house.
pete there should be NO tax on heating oil but there is a tax on off road 

Offline Southside logger

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2018, 09:22:59 PM »
The price of diesel is making a substantial dent in the bottom line.  What I can't figure out is that when fuel took a large jump in 2013-14 the price of a barrel of oil was north of $125 as opposed to todays price which is less than 70  I'm not very smart but the math doesn't add up ::)
Supply and demand, the refineries are taking profits and pushing prices as they know the economy is strong and folks are going to pay, basically it is inflation, only for some odd reason here in the US we don't include energy costs into the inflation equation, so the official story is we don't have any inflation.  
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Offline Matt601

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2018, 01:44:06 AM »
The price of diesel is making a substantial dent in the bottom line.  What I can't figure out is that when fuel took a large jump in 2013-14 the price of a barrel of oil was north of $125 as opposed to todays price which is less than 70  I'm not very smart but the math doesn't add up ::)
Supply and demand, the refineries are taking profits and pushing prices as they know the economy is strong and folks are going to pay, basically it is inflation, only for some odd reason here in the US we don't include energy costs into the inflation equation, so the official story is we don't have any inflation.  
In 2014 we was building a stock pile of oil at the rate of 2.5 million bbls a day. Oil prices crashed because the supply was way over what the world needed per day. OPEC and Russia cut out put 1.5 million a day That with the other natural decline of wells in the last 3 years has used up a lot of our stock pile. When Oil prices crashed from $120 bbl to $30 bbl oil company's stopped drilling new wells. Now we are getting balance oil prices are coming up. What it looks like in the oil world by the end of the year prices will be near $80 bbl if OPEC and Russia keeps the cuts. OPEC has another meeting in Nov if they remove the cuts and open everything back up oil will fall to $30 bbl. USA shale drilling has a lot to do with prices. If they produce too much OPEC will make prices crash to hurt them again. USA shale production need $70 to $80 bbl oil to keep drilling because those well dont produce good but a few years if not months. They have to keep drilling to keep the out put which has a big over head. In Saudi I have seen wells that was Drilled in 1975 still producing 5,000 bbls a day. Low over head. Saudi price per bbl is around $10 break even where in USA its $50 to $70.   
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2018, 06:23:42 AM »
The dollar has a lot to do with the price of oil.  When crude was at it's highest price, the dollar was at it's lowest.  If you look at the price of gasoline and home heating oil, they are right in line with crude prices, with some seasonal fluctuations.  Put 2 charts of the dollar and crude up and you'll see the correlation.  Right now, the dollar is declining since January.

That's not to say that supply doesn't have an effect on prices.  It does.  It takes awhile to build or decrease supply, so the effect is more subtle.  The dollar impact is more immediate.
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Offline PA_Walnut

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2018, 07:06:55 AM »
Let's not forget the "roads and bridges". All that tax is going to fix them.  :D :-\
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2018, 09:13:20 AM »
I suppose you know that Lancaster county has 302 projects on the books that are scheduled or have been completed for a total of $630 million.  The current construction projects just for Lancaster county total 50 projects at $41 million.  Most of those are bridge replacements or rehabs.  So, yes, the high tax is fixing them.
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Offline PAmizerman

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2018, 07:37:53 PM »
Let's not forget the "roads and bridges". All that tax is going to fix them.  :D :-\
Yes PA cause I'm running my diesel mill out on the highway and my big forklift I sure do appreciate that extra tax they put on OFF ROAD.  >:(
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Offline PA_Walnut

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2018, 08:54:34 PM »
Most of those are bridge replacements or rehabs.  So, yes, the high tax is fixing them.


Excuse my skepticism, but I don't particularly put much merit in statistics published by Penn Dot's reports.

The siphoning of the "roads and bridges" revenue has already been reported.
And so it begins...

Hey, it's only $750M, so who's counting!? :-\
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
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Offline Southside logger

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2018, 09:06:18 PM »
Do they ever actually complete any road construction in PA?  
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2018, 06:46:05 AM »
PennDOT takes money and moves to the state police, and the Turnpike Commission takes money and moves it to PennDOT.   http://fox43.com/2018/03/19/truck-driving-companies-file-lawsuit-against-pa-turnpike-commission-penndot/

Taxpayer money has always been a shell game in PA, so it shouldn't surprise anyone.  I imagine other states have the same level of political gamesmanship. 

The local gas station has off road diesel and home heating at the same price.  When I worked at the mill, we used only off road and we could lock in prices for a year.  That got rid of fluctuations in price and we weren't open to price spikes in the market.  The same can be done with an option on #2 fuel.

Too much freezing and thawing and a whole lot of bridges means that there's a lot of construction projects in the state.  Add in the pounding the main roads take from the amount of traffic that flows through the state and you get lots of construction.  There are nearly 32,000 bridges, and 20% need repairs.  
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Offline PA_Walnut

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2018, 06:57:06 AM »
Taxpayer money has always been a shell game in PA, so it shouldn't surprise anyone.  I imagine other states have the same level of political gamesmanship. 


Yes indeed. Once noblesse oblige left politics and went to career politics, this was the game: talk like preachers and act like gangsters.

This thread (oil, pricing, increases) cries out for political discussion and I took the bait. :-\ This is a HAPPY place to visit, since wood and forestry is largely a good thing. Unfortunately over-taxation, legislation and burden plagues us all. I apologize and digress and will keep politics to another forum, so as to remain HAPPY HERE! ;D:D

Speaking of happy, I recently got a 50 gallon tank, built a pallet for it, which I fork on and off my truck in order to fill with offload at local farm center. Has an electric pump and nozzle, powered/recharged by a small solar panel. Works like a champ--it makes me HAPPY! 
8)
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
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Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2018, 06:45:10 PM »
Got delivery of 146 gallons of off rd diesel today
209.9 last yr 249.9 now.
Home heating oil varies from 279.9 to 309.9 here and IS subject to taxes, sales etc.
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Offline tawilson

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2018, 08:27:36 PM »
I don't know what's going on here but I ordered 150 gallons of off-road today and was told it would be $473.95. I did a little quick calculation and tried to convince the girl on the phone that shouldn't be more than on road at the pump. She said it was 2.75 but the taxes brought it up to that. I cancelled. 
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Offline chet

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2018, 09:35:06 PM »
On road diesel jumped 30 here today, I didn't look at the off road price.  :(
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the arborist

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2018, 09:00:57 AM »
TA wilson, Is there a Mirabito energy prod dealer near you?
They are the best price around here.
Got a notice from gasbuddy yesterday that said that gas prices are the highes in 2 years.
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Kubota 8540 tractor, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 550 Sportsman ATV
1 Husky 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo
241 acres of woodland

Offline tawilson

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2018, 09:04:24 AM »
TA wilson, Is there a Mirabito energy prod dealer near you?
They are the best price around here.
Got a notice from gasbuddy yesterday that said that gas prices are the highes in 2 years.
I just got 64 gallons at the pump. I'll give them a call when that's gone. Thanks.
Tom
2017 LT40HDG35 WIDE
BMS250 and BMT250 sharpener/setter

Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2018, 05:57:16 PM »
You're  welcome
LT40SHDD51
Kubota 8540 tractor, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 550 Sportsman ATV
1 Husky 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo
241 acres of woodland

Offline maple flats

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2018, 01:44:44 PM »
My last farm diesel delivery worked out to be $1.95/gal after adding the Haz Mat charge. That has fed taxes but no state taxes on it.  I don't know what farm diesel is now, but since August the pump prices have gone up over $.50/gal.
I just filled my truck yesterday  and that was $3.049 a gal. For Farm diesel I usually only need 3-400 gal a year.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed,  Peterson ATS upgraded to WPF mill, maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Offline coxy

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2018, 07:38:47 AM »
its 2.979 here at the pump and thought that was high guess ill stay away from up state ny  :D

Offline Southside logger

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2018, 07:51:09 AM »
The high price might explain why some folks try to put cheaper GAS in their DIESEL truck.  :D
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Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline POSTON WIDEHEAD

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2018, 08:35:44 AM »
😳😳😳😳😳
Where's the Spoon?

Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #43 on: April 17, 2018, 11:01:30 AM »
I am in New Jersey at present an diesel is well above 3:00, if its not went up too much when i get back home i am going to top off my transfer tank. Had a load of oak come in right before i left.  Banjo
Cooks AC 36--Prentice 210C--Morgan edger--Kubota M7040 with loader--Case 580 K with extendahoe--Case 850C dozer--Int 1700 series twin cylinder dump/log/flatbed truck--logging arch--2 Logrite mill sp.--Cat claw sharpening system--And a bulldog to make sure it all stays here.

Offline Southside logger

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2018, 05:19:59 PM »
Banjo - you up there looking for Poston?  I heard he is telling folks that is from New York!!!  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2018, 08:21:09 PM »
Did see a couple folks that favored him.  But we were looking for muskie didnt find them either. 
Cooks AC 36--Prentice 210C--Morgan edger--Kubota M7040 with loader--Case 580 K with extendahoe--Case 850C dozer--Int 1700 series twin cylinder dump/log/flatbed truck--logging arch--2 Logrite mill sp.--Cat claw sharpening system--And a bulldog to make sure it all stays here.

Offline maple flats

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2018, 09:20:01 AM »
I just topped off my truck Friday. The pump price was 3.159 but a local grocery store give you cents off, with each $50 you buy at that grocery store. I had $1.03/gal off, thus I paid $2.129, that's only about double what is should be.
Back in the 80's I had an International 28,000# GVW with a 9 liter diesel. With it I got 14 MPG seemingly regardless of the load on it. Back then I paid $.999/gal for on road diesel.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed,  Peterson ATS upgraded to WPF mill, maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2018, 10:29:05 AM »
You must buy a lot of grocreys. Banjo
Cooks AC 36--Prentice 210C--Morgan edger--Kubota M7040 with loader--Case 580 K with extendahoe--Case 850C dozer--Int 1700 series twin cylinder dump/log/flatbed truck--logging arch--2 Logrite mill sp.--Cat claw sharpening system--And a bulldog to make sure it all stays here.

Offline tawilson

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2018, 11:16:10 AM »
Really. I filled up Friday and only saved 43 cents per gallon.
Tom
2017 LT40HDG35 WIDE
BMS250 and BMT250 sharpener/setter

Offline reedco

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2018, 09:14:16 PM »
         Diesel 3.05 today in Douglas Wy.  What did houses and trucks cost in the 80s?
Not many trees

Offline Magicman

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2018, 10:12:56 PM »
Hey @reedco I have stayed at the city park in Douglas many times.  Even caught a few Rainbows out of the N. Platte River and took an Antelope or two at Bill.  Even ate a few Prime Ribs at Clementines.  ;D  
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Offline reedco

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2018, 10:58:54 PM »
       Born in Douglas  Went to country school at Bill for 8 years. Worked the oilfields a big part of my life. Allways did better when fuel was higher so I am on the other side of this discussion. But 100.00 crude is to much. also makes things really crazy.  traffic, rent etc.
Not many trees

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2018, 11:10:54 PM »
That means that you are a member of the Bill Yacht Club.  ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline Logger RK

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Re: Diesel on the Rise
« Reply #53 on: April 30, 2018, 07:59:45 AM »
And with are refinery blowing up & burned for a day,it won't lower the price I'm sure. Even though it was asphalt that burned. Or that's what they said was burning. My Niece & Nephew were both working there at the time,so maybe they'll know,The Rest Of Story 


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