Average cost to tongue and groove

Crhall · May 18, 2018, 10:54:55 PM

What's the going rate to plane one side and tongue and groove some rough cut? 5/4" hickory. Haven't done any pricing yet, just wanted to check what going rate is?

Ljohnsaw · May 19, 2018, 12:23:41 AM

:P
I'm going to have a LOT of 2x pine and aspen and some 1x cedar to T&G and was wondering the same thing.

NorcalMatt · May 19, 2018, 01:16:14 AM

Nice John! I'm a little down the hill from your build and don't get any aspen. I tongue and groove a lot of cedar though. I know that a guy in Grass Valley does T&G pretty cheap, but I like to do it myself

Ljohnsaw · May 19, 2018, 10:01:15 AM

Matt,
I'd like to do it myself but it a matter of time and tools. I have a shaper that does well on the cedar (1") but I can't find a cutter for the 8/4 stock. Plus it would be better to run the 8/4 through a 3 sided to true up the boards and make them uniform. I figure it would take me a couple weeks to shape it all and I just have too many other things that need to be done. I'll have around 3,000 linear feet of pine, 2-2,500 of aspen and 3-4,000 of cedar.

What kind of setup do you have for the cedar you do? Can you PM me the contact info for the guy in Grass Valley? I could take trailer loads of the 8/4 over Highway 20 or maybe come down to Colfax and take 174.

curved-wood · May 19, 2018, 01:03:30 PM

You could get custom knifes done on your profile at : http://www.napgladu.com/products.html. So 1 1/2'' is no problem. That is where I got mine done.
They are very profesionnal by keeping your profile in memory so you could get it resharpen or get a new one. If you want they will sharpen the profile right on your planer's head and balance the weight to avoid vibrations

Greyhound · May 19, 2018, 07:13:42 PM

I'd definitely go with paying a good millwork shop. They have access to much better machinery that will do T&G much more accurately than home made. Also, they have huge economies of scale, so it usually costs less than doing it yourself anyways.

Ljohnsaw · May 19, 2018, 11:27:46 PM

Quote from: curved-wood on May 19, 2018, 01:03:30 PMSo 1 1/2'' is no problem.

I have a little Delta shaper. It works quite well but only has a 1/2" spindle. But, I'm doing 8/4 - a FULL 2". I think it would have a hard time with that. If, a big IF, the price of doing all the work was about the same buying a decent 3-sided planer/jointer then maybe...

NorcalMatt · May 20, 2018, 09:27:58 AM

Hi John,

That's a lot of lumber to T&G! I have a similar setup to you, just a shaper. I've yet to T&G anything over 1 1/4" with it. Most of mine ends up at 3' long to use as vertical wainscoting, so it's not as important to get it perfectly straight. When I do need it straight, I plane, then rip one edge with a track saw, then send through the table saw, and then the shaper. It's a pain, and I understand wanting to have someone else, who's set up for it, do it.

I sent out a couple texts trying to track that guy down, I'll let you know if/when I hear back.

scsmith42 · May 20, 2018, 09:29:47 AM

Quote from: Crhall on May 18, 2018, 10:54:55 PM
What's the going rate to plane one side and tongue and groove some rough cut? 5/4" hickory. Haven't done any pricing yet, just wanted to check what going rate is?

At least two local places charge $1.50 per board foot (roug sawn measure) to take a rough sawn board and return a S4S T&G product. They will pre-size the blank in thickness, straight line rip one edge and then rip to width, then run through a Moulder to complete it.

sawwood · May 20, 2018, 10:21:58 AM

Depending on the shape of the lumber I have had to joint one side before planning. I have the Woodmaster two sided tongue and groove set up.
my Woodmaster is a 18" so I can plane a lot of different sizes. I charge .45 cents for jointing and the same for planning. Them for the T&G I get
$1.25 per linear foot. That covers my set up time and running them threw. You need a good dust system and a place to dump the saw chips. I
don't do a lot of t&g so may be a mill shop would be your best out let if you have a small amount to do.

Lester

Brad_bb · May 20, 2018, 12:57:32 PM

The hardest part for me was finding a shop that would use my wood. Most just said no, they didn't want to take a chance on customers wood. They wanted to provide their own wood and finished product.

I finally found one that would. I hadn't realized all the steps involved. As scsmith said, it as to be dried, planed to consistent thickness, and ripped to consistent width before it ever goes into the moulder. Each of those steps has a cost associated with it. I don't have those costs handy, but scsmith is pretty close, I'd say $1.50-$2.00. My wood is being processed now (2x8 T&G Ash for barn stalls).

ellmoe · May 20, 2018, 01:12:47 PM

We charge $.40 per bf to t & g most well sawn, dried lumber through a 5 head moulder.

Ljohnsaw · May 20, 2018, 01:51:52 PM

Interesting - most seem to be quoting BF prices. So planning or T&Ging is only half the work on a 1" board as a 2" board? ;) Sure, the 2x is heavier but twice the cost to process?

I will have 5,500 BF of pine for the roof, another 4,000 BF of aspen for the floors and a minimum of 2,500 BF of cedar. That's 12,000 BF of product. At a buck to buck fifty a BF, that's $12-18K.

Knowing these prices, the WM MP260 (I don't have 3phase) is looking pretty attractive at $11k :-\ Wonder if WM has some used units from people upgrading to the MP360...

Brad_bb · May 20, 2018, 06:14:17 PM

I was including the whole process kiln drying, planing, edging, and T&G.

Southside · May 20, 2018, 07:47:50 PM

John, don't forget about post drying ripping off your lumber, before you run it through the moulder, the tolerance has to be exact. I would not want to run 12,000 bft through a table saw.

Ljohnsaw · May 20, 2018, 09:08:36 PM

Quote from: Southside logger on May 20, 2018, 07:47:50 PM
John, don't forget about post drying ripping off your lumber, before you run it through the moulder, the tolerance has to be exact. I would not want to run 12,000 bft through a table saw.

Hm-mm, so the molding/edging is not capable of truing up the stock? Guess I was assuming too much. I was hoping the MP260 would take stock with a +1/4" /-1/8" and give me a good end product. I suppose I should be able to true up a stack of boards (10 @ 2") at a time on my mill to within an eighth or less. That would be faster then a table saw!
Or maybe there is enough room in the budget to get an edger... If I can find both used and then sell when I'm done...

JRWoodchuck · May 20, 2018, 11:33:44 PM

I would look for an outfit nearby and give them a call. We have an outfit here that was able to run 1200 bd/ft of 2x6 t & g Larch at the end of a big run for someone else and it cost me tuning up his bicycle. I just had to wait until they were running that. Not saying that is how it will go because 12k is a lot different the 1.2K but I would make a call to see what is available. Also they have a 6 head molder and it was able to chew through + or - a 1/4. Its a pretty stout machine though.

Southside · May 20, 2018, 11:55:50 PM

I can't specifically speak for the MP260 as I have never run one, I had my hands on one this weekend along with an MP360 and I can say that my WM4000 works on the exact same principle and 1/4" too wide and you are either going to jam your work piece on a fence, trip a breaker, or destroy a belt as the cutter head will slam right into the stock and I don't care if it has a 40hp motor behind it she is just not going to cut when it's past the blade cutting surface and into the spindle. 1/4" too narrow and you are going to be missing either a tongue or a groove, so the piece becomes junk. 1/8" off of your target size - maybe you are OK, maybe not, keep it to within 1/16" and the results are awesome.

I tried to edge on my sawmill ahead of the moulder, the results were passable, but not great, the cull was not horrible on small orders, but on 12K feet you would have maybe 1K of waste, plus it's slow, really, really, slow. Does not take much deflection to turn a group of 8" target boards into 7" or 6" because of a knot or other grain change to the band, that or you need to have a cross cut in line before the moulder to cut out any obvious wide spots.

One option is if you can find someone with, or pick up a used SLR you will be very happy with the results, I had a guy with a SLR run mine until my Riehl edger arrived, I ordered it with additional glue line blades for dry lumber so I can use it with green lumber off the mill or dry out of the kiln. Using an SLR you need to make two passes, so there is the double handling that I don't have using the edger.

Now my prep is simple, just set the blank against the left fence and repeat, 75 FPM out the other side, no deflection, no issues at all, and the moulder, along with the operator, is happy and not getting frustrated.

I have a load of pine in the kiln that finished up this evening, it's cooling down now and I will be running it through the edger and moulder starting in the morning, some is flooring, some is ship-lap.

petefrom bearswamp · May 21, 2018, 08:00:03 AM

Southside I tried the sawmill edge method too on some EWP.
Didnt get the results I had hoped for.
Glad i only did about 500 bf.
The thin strips i got did make great kindling wood tho.

nativewolf · May 21, 2018, 08:07:15 AM

Quote from: Southside logger on May 20, 2018, 11:55:50 PM
I can't specifically speak for the MP260 as I have never run one, I had my hands on one this weekend along with an MP360 and I can say that my WM4000 works on the exact same principle and 1/4" too wide and you are either going to jam your work piece on a fence, trip a breaker, or destroy a belt as the cutter head will slam right into the stock and I don't care if it has a 40hp motor behind it she is just not going to cut when it's past the blade cutting surface and into the spindle. 1/4" too narrow and you are going to be missing either a tongue or a groove, so the piece becomes junk. 1/8" off of your target size - maybe you are OK, maybe not, keep it to within 1/16" and the results are awesome.

I tried to edge on my sawmill ahead of the moulder, the results were passable, but not great, the cull was not horrible on small orders, but on 12K feet you would have maybe 1K of waste, plus it's slow, really, really, slow. Does not take much deflection to turn a group of 8" target boards into 7" or 6" because of a knot or other grain change to the band, that or you need to have a cross cut in line before the moulder to cut out any obvious wide spots.

One option is if you can find someone with, or pick up a used SLR you will be very happy with the results, I had a guy with a SLR run mine until my Riehl edger arrived, I ordered it with additional glue line blades for dry lumber so I can use it with green lumber off the mill or dry out of the kiln. Using an SLR you need to make two passes, so there is the double handling that I don't have using the edger.

Now my prep is simple, just set the blank against the left fence and repeat, 75 FPM out the other side, no deflection, no issues at all, and the moulder, along with the operator, is happy and not getting frustrated.

I have a load of pine in the kiln that finished up this evening, it's cooling down now and I will be running it through the edger and moulder starting in the morning, some is flooring, some is ship-lap.

Is that your solar kiln?