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Diesel in lube tank

Started by Crossroads, November 13, 2018, 12:32:00 PM

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Crossroads

I see in some posts that guys use diesel for blade lube. Is it going straight into the lube tank and is there any concern about the petroleum product breaking down any seals or orings in the system?
With the right fulcrum and enough leverage, you can move the world!

2017 LT40 wide, BMS250 and BMT250,036 stihl, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins, l8000 Ford dump truck, hr16 Terex excavator, Valley je 2x24 edger, Gehl ctl65 skid steer, JD350c dozer

reswire

I love to use diesel in my tank, only problem is it wears out the wheel belts very quickly.  If it can wear out a belt, then it probably will be tough on any o rings, etc..
Norwood LM 30, JD 5205, some Stihl saws, 15 goats, 10 chickens, 1 Chessie and a 2 Weiner dogs...

47sawdust

I've run diesel and bar oil in my LT30 for 8 years.No belt problems or any other for that matter.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

DPatton

With diesel you only need a few drops every once in a while. You don't want to run it with a steady stream or drip. doing that defeats the purpose and will causes excess wear or deterioration on the blade belts. When cutting sappy logs that build up on the blade quickly I try and set my flow at 1 drip per ever 3-5 seconds. When cutting hard woods I hardly ever even turn it on anymore. Most the time I only use it to clean off the blade occasionally if I'm getting buildup on the blade. I don't have the experience or hours many of the other sawyers on this site have but I haven't noticed a problem with premature band belt failure, or with my poly tank and valves. However it does make the clear vinyl tubing brittle. The best part is a tank full will last you a very long time. I personally got tired of filling the tank with water and detergent twice a day.  
TimberKing 1600, 30' gooseneck trailer, Chevy HD2500, Echo Chainsaw, 60" Logrite.

Work isn't so bad when you enjoy what your doing.
D & S Sawmill Services

WV Sawmiller

   I don't use diesel in my tank. I probably should get a squirt bottle to try on occasion. 

   I know I don't saw the volume many of you guys do and I saw less softwood and maybe I am not using enough lube but I have never had to fill a lube tank during the course of a days sawing. I doubt I have ever use half a tank. If I didn't forget to turn it off or bump the valve on occasion and let it run dry overnight I don't know that I'd ever have to fill the thing. Maybe I need to run more lube?
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

To each his own.  I am ending my 16th year of sawing and have never seen the need to use Diesel as a blade lube.  Soapy water does just fine.  ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WV Sawmiller

Lynn,

   You saw lots of SYP it seems. How many tanks of soapy water do you typically use for sawing say per 1,000 bf of lumber produced?
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

Generally ¾ of a tank.  I do not recall ever emptying a full tank during a day's sawing.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Banjo picker

I use diesel just like DPatton described in his above post.  It works pretty good and I use very little.  The tank for the drip system is built into the structure of the mill and has a tube connected to a filter just before entering into the metering valves.  I normally only use one of the drips.  You never have to worry about draning anything because its gona freeze, just one less thing to think about.  If you want to cut in cold weather no problem.  Also right before I go to take a blade off the mill to sharpen, I open the drip wide open and get some diesel on the band so that it  won't rust before I use it again.  Only draw back I can think of on my mill is: you have to shut it off or you will drain the tank.  I have done that once or twice.  I did try soap and water formula once.  The soap stopped up my filters.  I could have taken them off if I had wanted to continue using it, but just didn't like it as well as the diesel.  Since the tank is built into the Cooks, its not replaceable, and I have read where one man that bought a used machine that had had the tank filled with water and it was a pain to get all the rust out.  So you just have to make the call according to your own circumstances.  If I ran a woodmizer I might do differently.  Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

Skipper11A

I started using a diesel lube because the water lube was staining the seasoned post oak I was milling.  I mean lots of blue staining wherever the lube water touched the post oak.  Completely unacceptable.  So I tried the diesel lube and that solved the staining problem.  The diesel also eliminated pitch buildup on the blade and because I've got it set for 1 drip every 3-4 seconds, I use so little diesel that I can't even remember the last time I needed to fill the lube tank.  

The lube I use is actually a 50/50 mix of diesel and bar & chain oil.  I also keep a spray bottle of lube and use it all over the mill on anything that looks like it needs lubrication. 

esteadle

Almost a decade ago, I ran diesel as lube for about a month. After replacing all the rubber on the side of the mill that the lube sprayed onto (mainly the drive belts, one of the bandwheel belts, and my main hydraulic motor drive belt), I switched back. 

I'll never use diesel for lubricant again after that experience. Water is cheap and easy and works just fine, and I just add a little soap or Pinesol if I need it to clear the pitch on my blades. My engine blows it's warm cooling air right on my drip tank so I don't need to worry about using water in winter either, as long as I fill the tank after it's warmed up, and run it out before I shut it down. 



Chuck White

I've used diesel a few times, in a spray bottle!

I primarily use water and dish soap!

One full tank of lube/coolant will usually last me about 4 days!

Slow drip!

I mostly saw White Pine & Hemlock, a little bit of hardwood gets thrown in once in a while!

Sawing Ash is when I use the most lube/coolant, the sugar in the logs really gum up the blade, sometimes to the point that the water and soap won't even touch it, that's where the diesel spray comes into play!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

WV Sawmiller

Chuck,

   Your experience with the lube tank appears to match very well with mine. Yes, ash coasts the bands badly. I once cut some buckeye with a blade I'd used on ash and it cleaned it slick as a new band. I've heard red cedar will do the same as to  cleaning blades. I'm tempted to keep a scrap buckeye log around just to clean blades. Probably easier ways to do that. I've still got to try the diesel in a spray bottle.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Southside

With fresh yellow pine in the summer months I just about run zero lube and don't have any issues with pitch. I used to run a lot more but the results are better now.  White pine is a whole different animal however, I find I need to run the lube quite a bit heavier and now and then flush the blade.  Never tried the diesel spray but I can see where it would work well in white pine.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
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White Oak Meadows

AlpineCutter

I run water with pine sol for milling mainly doug fir. I do get sap buildup once in awhile though. Has anyone ever tried just giving the band a few squirts of WD-40?

Crossroads

That's some food for thought. I've always ran pinesol and dish soap with good results, but now that I'm in a cold climate area, I was thinking about the diesel for a preventative to freezing. Thank you for the info 
With the right fulcrum and enough leverage, you can move the world!

2017 LT40 wide, BMS250 and BMT250,036 stihl, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins, l8000 Ford dump truck, hr16 Terex excavator, Valley je 2x24 edger, Gehl ctl65 skid steer, JD350c dozer

Magicman

For cold climates Wood-Mizer recommends low temp windshield washer fluid.  I can get by with adding a couple of gallons of 0° WW fluid which is the lowest available here.  At shutdown I purge the system with that same 0° stuff.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

DPatton

Prior to diesel, Pinesol Cleaner or Zep Degreaser were my go to additives in water. I also tried MM's prescribed glugs of his liquid detergent in water, but on my TK 1600 with a gravity drip system none of them come close to diesel. Many of the guys on this forum have the Lube Mizer system that may do better with water and detergent Than the drip system on my mill. If you have a drip type system I would say give diesel a try. But I might be relucantant to dump diesel in a pressurized Lube Mizer type system that sprays the blade for fear of damaging internal seals, rubber, or plastic.
TimberKing 1600, 30' gooseneck trailer, Chevy HD2500, Echo Chainsaw, 60" Logrite.

Work isn't so bad when you enjoy what your doing.
D & S Sawmill Services

redneckman

I know everyone has thier opinion on this, so I thought I would toss mine in too.  First of all, I dont think one type of lube works for all cases.  For example, a smaller HP gas mill my do fine with plain water and soap.  A higher HP mill turns the blade faster through denser woood, and water and soap may not be enough.

That is exactly what I found.  In the beginning, I was runing water and soap.  I used Dawn dishwahing liquid, Pine sol, and Cascade dishwashing cleaner.  Magic man put me on that one.  Out of all, the Cascade worked the best with pitch build up.

The issue I was runing into was blade temp buildup.  My blades would get so hot, that steam would come off the blades when the lube sprayed on it. I am talking new blades out of the box.  I was stretching blades, breaking baldes, had diving cuts, etc.  On one day, I went though 25 gallons of water / soap cutting chestnut oak.  I had to run it at wide open to try to keep the blade cool.  

I had heard about others using diesel fuel.  I know Cooks reccomends this in thier mills.  So, I decided to give it a try.  What a difference!  I have mine set to spray seldom, and when I see pitch build up, I turn it to continuous, run it for 10 seconds, and the pitch is gone.  Turn it back to intermediant, and keep sawing.

I wondered why the big difference, and here is what I came up with.  Diesel has cleaning properties, and is oil.  Oil lubricates.  I think the lubrication reduces friction, therefore reducing heat.  When I put on a new blade, I run it for a few seconds and let the DF coat it before entering a cut.  I think that little bit of lubrication goes a long way.  Trying to cool a balde once it gets hot is defeating the purpose, and likely ruins the blade.  Some of my blades came off the mill blue from the heat before I switched to DF.  Now, my blades look just like that did when I put them on.  Oh, one more thing, if you run the blade a few seconds spraying DF on it before removing it, it helps it from rusting in storage.

Another added benefit is that the diesel helps to clean the mill around the guides and blade covers.  When I was runing water, these areas got really dirty and was real hard to clean.  Now, I can wipe them off with my finger.  Finally, water corrodes.  Diesel does not.  Nuts, bolts, and screws will be alot easier to remove.  I actually rung off two bilts from the guides of my mill with 150 hours on it from runing water.  Finally, unless it gets really cold, diesel will not freeze and bust your tank and pump.

I know Woodmizer does not recommend diesel fuel.  And, I am not sure what the long term effect on seals, wheel belts, etc are.  I inspect my wheel belts every time I change a blade and I have not noticed anything different other than that there is not as much pitch on them.  But, I will never run anything other than diesel fuel on my mill form now on.   I can cut for three solid days on 5 gallons of diesel fuel when before I was going through 5 gallons of soap and water for one log.

Give it a try.  If it is not for you, try something else.




POSTON WIDEHEAD

Don't let this lube thing give you grey hair. 
Its pretty simple.

I've tried Diesel mixed with water in my tank. It doesn't stay mixed and its not worth the time.
Basically what Magicman said.....jug of water, a couple of shots of dawn and you've got it.
Keep you a spray bottle of diesel for a quick clean if ya need it and that's it. Simple!

Just a spray of diesel on a nasty blade will clean it and will not affect your lumber.
Too much diesel WILL soften your belts and make them mushy and the belts will need to be replaced sooner than expected. 

The End!  :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Chuck White

Quote from: AlpineCutter on November 13, 2018, 07:38:47 PM
I run water with pine sol for milling mainly doug fir. I do get sap buildup once in awhile though. Has anyone ever tried just giving the band a few squirts of WD-40?
I have, works well, just don't overdo it or you'll experience belt slippage!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

curved-wood

I used fairly much what Magicman is using. In wintertime water+windshield washer, and just a small drip of diesel if gum built up. I dont used anymore all time diesel because I had complain from a woodworker that he has oily stain that show up when he varnishe . I guess it was drips that spill out when the side of the block is exposed. Not shure how deep the diesel goes, may be the woodworker didnt plane at all !

trapper

Kerosene same as diesel to use?
stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

armechanic

Kerosene is diesel with less oil in it and more expensive.
1989 Lt 40, D6C CAT, Home made wood processer in progress.

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