Virginia Pine?

[JimVA]

I've got nearly 40 decent size Virginia Pine on my property that I'd like to use to build a timber frame workshop. I know it's not the greatest material but does anyone see a reason why I shouldn't do it? I'm planning to cut it into timber/boards with an Alaskan chainsaw mill.

[Tom]

I don't see a reason you shouldn't attempt it. Forty pines with a chainsaw is quite a project but you'll have something everybody else will want. ;D

[Squirrell_Boy]

I'm not familiar with Virginia Pine. What is the scientific name?
My understanding is that most pines are stable, have good weight and strength characteristics, and are easy to work. How big are the trees? Do they grow in the same manner as white pine?

[JimVA]

Pinus virginiana

It grows all over the piedmont and mtn regions through the mid-atlantic. My understanding is it's used mostly for pulpwood and not for construction grade lumber. Most of these trees are 12-18" diameter and relatively straight for 20-30ft.

[raycon]

Find the trees structural properties(www or book) and compare to Eastern White Pine. Eastern White Pine is a popular timber framing material that has numerous reference's for sizing timbers for sustained load carrying.

[Squirrell_Boy]

Hi JimVA, What did you decide to do? 40 trees with chainsaw does sound like a lot of work, especially when a woodmizer can cut cut them into timbers so quickly. Have you done any timber framing before? Timber framing is strong, beautiful, and a great use of local resources. How do you plan to enclose the shop?

[beenthere]

Properties of the virginia pine can be seen at

http://www2.fpl.fs.fed.us/TechSheets/SoftwoodNA/pdf_files/pinusvirginmet.pdf

Properties of white pine can be seen at

http://www2.fpl.fs.fed.us/TechSheets/SoftwoodNA/htmlDocs/pinusstrobus.html

(to compare, you need to switch to either metric or english units when looking at the documents)

The Virginia pine is almost double the strength of White pine.

[etat]

Never been to Virginey but when I read the title of this thread it made me think of Ben Cartwright and them big ole pine trees on his ranch.  

[Jim_Rogers]

Yes, they sent their lumber to Virginia City, but they milled Ponderosa Pine. If you remember?

[etat]

Well I'll be gol danged if ye ain't correct!!!!!!!  Them was some pretty trees though!!!!!

[Greg]

Properties of the virginia pine can be seen at

http://www2.fpl.fs.fed.us/TechSheets/SoftwoodNA/pdf_files/pinusvirginmet.pdf

Properties of white pine can be seen at

http://www2.fpl.fs.fed.us/TechSheets/SoftwoodNA/htmlDocs/pinusstrobus.html

(to compare, you need to switch to either metric or english units when looking at the documents)

The Virginia pine is almost double the strength of White pine.

Did I read that right? Twice the strenght of white pine???

I though all softwoods generally were lumped into a SPF designation for engineering (spruce, pine, fir)

If its that strong I wonder why its primarily used for pulpwood...

Greg

[beenthere]

Greg
I assume you looked at the two references, and if so, you read it right. A good observation.  

 SPF (spruce, pine, fir) is a softwood grouping (black spruce, Engelman spruce, red spruce,balsam fir, alpine fir, jack pine, lodgepole pine). The SPF doesn't include all the pines.  White pine is in a group lumped as Eastern softwoods, and Virginia pine is in a group called Southern Pine Minor (lumped with pond pine, sand pine, and spruce pine).  The Southern Pine Major group is shown in the wood handbook as loblolly pine, longleaf pine, shortleaf pine, and slash pine.

It is some good reading in chapter 5 of the wood handbook.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm

Not sure what to infer from the "pulpwood" observation.

[Minnesota_boy]

Here where I live we grow white pine, red pine and jack pine.  I haven't looked up the specifications, just used the lumber produced and I'll say that jack pine is much stronger than white pine, but is rarely used for lumber.  Why?  Jack pine tends to be a short-lived tree with tendencies toward rot.  It grows with more crook and uneven areas and tends to warp more in drying.  It makes great studs, if you can keep it straight while drying.  Red pine is in between white and jack pine for strength and tends to have a smoother appearance before milling, but its knots tend to be larger in the upper sticks and have little strength.  A 2x4 with a large knot in it will break from its own weight.

[JimVA]

SB: I've never done timber framing before, just stick. I'm gonna side it with milled boards, hopefully.

Thanks for the replies. VA pine sounds a lot like jack pine from the description. It doesn't grow very tall and is often crooked. Last week I was down in NC. The loblolly pines down there (and all over the south) grow fast, straight, have relatively few limbs, and grow very tall. I assume the second string status of VA pine, and other similiar pines, is because there is just a much better alternative -- at least from a commercial standpoint.

[Tobacco Plug]

Virginia pine tends to be somewhat knotty, so you might want to use the lumber from your trees for paneling.

[SwampDonkey]

Minnesota_boy:

The jack pine is very much like Virginia Pine except the needles and cones are twisted on Jack, but the tree form looks alike. The bark is lighter on Virgina pine to. Also the Jack pine requires quite a bit of heat to open its cones, but you will see the cones open up on younger trees. When I first saw them in Virginia, I thought they were jack pine, but it didn't add up. :D :D.