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Yellow and red ceder wood stove?

Started by minesmoria, December 16, 2005, 09:46:46 PM

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minesmoria

I get my firewood from a ceder boat-lumber  sawmill and get lots of bad xxx whole logs that they cant use.

The yellow ceder is quite hard and heavy  and burns hot and long smells nice.

Red ceder is very light  gives off little heat  burns fast smells okay.

So how come there is so much difference in the two and what makes the best lumber yellow or red.

Ianab

QuoteSo how come there is so much difference in the two and what makes the best lumber yellow or red.

Lots of trees seem to be called "cedar" when in fact they aren't closely relatedĀ  ::)

:P
Yellow Cedar is technically Chamaecyparis nootkatensis, a false cypress, also called Alaskan or Sitka Cypress.

Red Cedar is either Western Red cedar, Thuja plicata, which is a true cdear. Or Eastern Red Cedar, Juniperus virginiana, again not a true cedar either, but closely related to a cypress.

So it's not surprising you have noticed the woods are very different. All three are usefull and potentially valuable lumber, but with different properties / uses. They are all natually durable, hence their use in boat building. The yellow 'cedar' is denser and stronger than the others, would be good as structural components but is also flexible enough to be used as hull planking. The red cedar is lighter but more brittle, would usually be used as panelling / furniture etc where is light weight and durablility are usefull.

We sometimes used Lawson cypress (very similar to your yellow cedar) for firewood, it's pretty good for a softwood, as long as liked the smellĀ  :D

Cheers

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

minesmoria

I am on the bc north coast just below alaska, the red ceders seem to grow at least three times as big as the yellow ceders sometimes they rot in right the middle.

We also have massive balsm trees its the worst firewood i ever used, produces very litte heat never thought there was a junk firewood till i used  balsm/fir!

extrapolate85

The biggest difference between Western red cedar and yellow cedar is wood density. A bone-dry cubic meter of red cedar wood weighs 310 kilos (roughly 19 lbs per cubic foot), while a bone-dry m3 of yellow cedar weighs 420 kilos (26 lbs). In the log form, yellow cedar is quite light at 730 kilos/m3 (weight with bark but volume of wood only) making it the lightest moderately-dense softwood in Western North America (meaning that even in the green state, moisture content is low. Western red cedar weighs about 620 kg/m3 (again, weight with bark, volume of wood only, green).

As for what makes the better lumber, it depends on what you are using it for. Historically, the domestic market for yellow cedar has been small, with most of it going to Japan, where they like it very much and were willing to pay a very high price (more than red cedar). Currently, with the Japanese market softening and large quantities of standing dead yellow cedar in Alaska, there is a move to market yellow cedar lumber domestically.

Western red cedar has been favoured over yellow cedar in North America because the wood is incredibly light, is one of the higher rot resistant species when exposed to damp conditions, and has a dark red colouration that is liked for applications such as house siding, decking, fencing, as well as many specialty products like split products (fence rails, shingles, shakes, telephone poles, etc.).

While Western red cedar has been heavily used domestically, yellow cedar has mostly been a strange tree with a strong-not very nice smell that has been loaded in the log form on ships and exported. It remains to be seen whether North Americans will ever develop a liking for it, but there is currently a lot of activity to market it for things such as decking and cabinet stock.   

SwampDonkey

I like the smell of yellow cypress, it smells like peeled carrots or potatoes. I lived in Prince Rupert for awhile and I never saw any for sale except some small quantities that got mixed in the bundles. I agree, most yellow cedar was exported. If I had a woodlot with yellow cedar, I'de use it for sure for siding on my buildings. It's more rot resistant than red cedar is. We would find some of it down and in the mud sometimes when cruising timber and chop into it and it would smell like fresh cut timber. It would be graded as a 'Dry - Y' and merchantable. The sapwood would be gone bad, but the heart was almost indistructable, except by fire. Most of the cedar I saw was on the Queen Charlotte Islands. ;D

I'm guessing, but I'de be willing to bet minesmoria is living in Prince Rupert, if not maybe up in Port Simpson. I also worked up on Sommerville Island above Port Simpson. ;)



Here a view of the Kutzmatene Inlet Grizley Bear Santuary from the shore of Sommerville Island.



City of Prince Rupert from the top of Mount Hays.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

quirkus

Concerning yellow cedar -- can it be purchased? I live in South Texas.
IANAB -- Can you tell me more about using yellow cedar for boat planking /

UNCLEBUCK

I buy alot of western red cedar and I burn the scrapes in my shop woodstove and it goes off like a bomb and will heat up so fast I have to shut the draft off to prevent meltdown  :D
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

Ianab

Hi Quirkus

I'm in NZ and dont build boats myself, but we can get the yellow cedar here, either locally grown or imported from the US, so I guess you should be able to find some.

This company in BC sells it http://www.kapplerusa.com/y2k/lmbr-yc.htm. I dont know anything about them, but it's a place to start.

Cheers

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

minesmoria

Swampdonkey,

when you grade the logs i notice some are  marked yu and other logs t and xxx reject logs  what does that stand for


SwampDonkey

Were some of them dead dry stubs (cedar/cypress), or broken/brusted up, maybe culvert logs?

Y is chipper grade

Z or R is reject

W is a log that has 50 % of useable wood.

X is utility grade where 33 % is useable.

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hva/manuals/scaling/index.htm

"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

minesmoria

The ones i see here are y xxx and either hemlock or balsm has t marked on it.

firewood logs have xxx on them some time it just a portion of the log you get not whole.

Never sen z r or w

SwampDonkey

If ya looked at the scalers link, that's the government of BC log codes. When I cruised and did waste surveys we also used the same codes. As some of the guys in the states will probably confirm, you'll find all kinds of 'logger' or 'procurement' codes people will use to keep ya mystified. :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

The W and X codes are probably used when you get a log with barbour chair or a lightning strike or maybe a cedar that busted up into slabs as it crushed under it's own weight when felled. (just my speculation) I can't imagine a 2.5 m log that broke in two in cross section being of great value, unless it's shake blocks. It would have to be squared at the break or it would be splintery stuff.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

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