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trans fluid in my hyd tank

Started by graves logging, November 22, 2012, 02:48:24 PM

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graves logging

My 664 clark had trans fluid in the hyd tank. All was good till I hooked up a loader and trailer.I had smoke coming out around the valve bank. And sezed up 3 of the valves. Iam guessing I need to put in hyd oil. Cause it was hot as hell. And the trans fluid was thiner than water.  What do you guys think.

tlandrum

the hydraulic tank should have never had trans fluid in it. you really need to drain it out and put some good hydraulic oil in.
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NWP

My firewood processor runs trans fluid in the hydraulics with no problem.  I've got 4500 hours on it with no problems.  Have you used the loader and trailer on it before?  Maybe there is a compatibility issue with the hydraulic systems.  Maybe a restriction causing some of the heat?  Although, I've heard that trans fluid doesn't have the lubricating properties of hydro oil.  That's my 2 cents worth.  I'm sure there are people that are a lot more knowledgeable in hydraulics than me that will have some answers on this though.
1999 Blockbuster 2222, 1997 Duratech HD10, 2021 Kubota SVL97-2, 2011 Case SV250, 2000 Case 1845C, 2004 Case 621D, John Deere 540A, 2011 Freightliner with Prentice 120C, 2012 Chevrolet, 1997 GMC bucket truck, several trailers, and Stihl saws.

cutter88

my 664 is a 1980.. it runs same oil in tranny and hyd dextron 3
Romans 10 vs 9 
650G lgp Deere , 640D deere, 644B deere loader, 247B cat, 4290 spit fire , home made fire wood processor, 2008 dodge diesel  and a bunch of huskys and jonsereds (IN MEMORY OF BARRY ROGERSON)

cutter88

but running that loader u should be runnen a heavier oil like 10 wieght or hydraulic 32
Romans 10 vs 9 
650G lgp Deere , 640D deere, 644B deere loader, 247B cat, 4290 spit fire , home made fire wood processor, 2008 dodge diesel  and a bunch of huskys and jonsereds (IN MEMORY OF BARRY ROGERSON)

Cedar Savage

The hydraulic system shouldn't have trans fluid in it, but little trans fluid in the hyd fluid won't hurt nothing. It sounds like there's a restriction somewhere in system causing heat. You may need to add a bigger tank, or a hyd cooler to make up for the extra heat the loader is making.. If the hydraulic system is connected with the transmission, it needs transfluid in it.
"They fried the fish with bacon and were astonished, for no fish had ever seemed so delicious before."         Mark Twain

Gary_C

Transmission fluid is a type of hydraulic oil and is most likely not the reason for the high temperature or low viscosity in your hydraulic system. You need to look for something else that is wrong.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

snowstorm

atf will not hurt a thing. if it stuck the spools then it got really hot. or the spools or valve body are pitted or rusted. i have seen this happen. was there a diverter valve for the trailer?

graves logging

There is no diverter. Iam going to rebuild the valves. A buddy of mine has the same setup only on a timberjack works fine.but he uses hyd oil not trans fluid.

Al_Smith

I wasn't there so I don't know .However the presence of red does not neccessarily indicate it was tranny fluid .Somebody might have dumped red dye diesel fuel in the tank espcially since it was reported thin as water .

FWIW a kerosine or diesel fuel flush on a gummed up hydraulic system is a trick old as the hills .They usualy thinned it about half ,ran it without a load then changed the oil .You're not supposed to use the system under pressure .

snowstorm

Quote from: graves logging on November 23, 2012, 07:31:09 AM
There is no diverter. Iam going to rebuild the valves. A buddy of mine has the same setup only on a timberjack works fine.but he uses hyd oil not trans fluid.
we would need to see how this thing is plumbed. as far as i know that clark uses open center hyrda.if the trailer valve is closed that would be a problem. you cant just tee off say the blade valve on the skidder and run back to the trailer without a power beyond or a diverter

barbender

That's what I was wondering, Al- did someone put off road diesel in the hyd. tank?
Too many irons in the fire

Al_Smith

It might not have have been ag diesel .Standard oil at one time had a blend before they came out with that stuff that looks like K1 kerosine that had red dye about the color of tranny fluid .

Ag diesel has so much dye in it that it stains the tank and everything it touchs .Every so often some super snooper tax people sneak around at farm auctions and peek in peoples fuel caps for red dye .They try to catch farmers running ag diesel in their F-250's that was suppossed to go in the John-Deere .It takes for ever to get it washed off too in case anyone gets the bright idea .

Might not have been diesel at all ,that was just a hunch .

barbender

I've heard that before- just a bit can leave you red for a long time.
Too many irons in the fire

Al_Smith

 :D Red dye .I had done a lot of work at a local refinery during the 80's .I found a nice 30 gallon drum that was discarded in the one time Standard Oil dump site .Aha nice drum to store gas .

So not paying attention I liberated it and filled it full of gasoline .Oh Lawdy did I get a surprise .Stained the tractor  tank ,the lawn mower ,the funnel ,my hands ,blue jeans .Bad plan .

Bobus2003

Had a Forklift at work that a guy filled the Hyd tank with Fuel.. Took a bit of work to fix that mess, Lots of draining lines and cylinders.

I have ran hundreds of gallons of Dyed Fuel though my truck.. After about 2 tanks theirs no real visual indication. you'd need more than just looking at a sample in the plastic tube that the DOT uses.. I know, i was dipped once...lol

Although anymore.. off-road and on-road fuel arn't much diff in price.. So for the last few years i've been running on-road in all my equipment. This way if i do fuel my truck out of my bulk tank, Borrow from the skidder/dozer its legal

Al_Smith

Oh they like to make a big deal over next to nothing .Spend 10 million bucks to collect 5,000 in fines .

graves logging

Quote from: Bobus2003 on November 23, 2012, 01:33:34 PM
Had a Forklift at work that a guy filled the Hyd tank with Fuel.. Took a bit of work to fix that mess, Lots of draining lines and cylinders.

I have ran hundreds of gallons of Dyed Fuel though my truck.. After about 2 tanks theirs no real visual indication. you'd need more than just looking at a sample in the plastic tube that the DOT uses.. I know, i was dipped once...lol

Although anymore.. off-road and on-road fuel arn't much diff in price.. So for the last few years i've been running on-road in all my equipment. This way if i do fuel my truck out of my bulk tank, Borrow from the skidder/dozer its legal
crazyist thing I had in a hyd tank is a big rag the guy putting the pump on never looked in the inlet side of the hose. This was on a 860 tigercat. Let me tell ya that will slow things down. The rag was as big as a pillowcase. Filled valvebank and everything else full of rag we were days getting it cleaned out

Ed_K

I'm wondering if the inlet - outlet lines to the trailer are reversed?My Tractor didn't like it when I hooked mine up wrong the first time.
Ed K

cutter88

those two guys are right that tranny oil is just fine in ur hydraulic... ide say its a heat issue running the loader mabie a cooler will help
Romans 10 vs 9 
650G lgp Deere , 640D deere, 644B deere loader, 247B cat, 4290 spit fire , home made fire wood processor, 2008 dodge diesel  and a bunch of huskys and jonsereds (IN MEMORY OF BARRY ROGERSON)

Cedar Savage

Quote from: graves logging on November 23, 2012, 07:31:09 AM
There is no diverter. Iam going to rebuild the valves. A buddy of mine has the same setup only on a timberjack works fine.but he uses hyd oil not trans fluid.
Do Clark & Timberjack have the same type of hydraulic system? You may need a power beyond coupler that fits in the end of the valve bank & allows another valve bank to attach to the system.
"They fried the fish with bacon and were astonished, for no fish had ever seemed so delicious before."         Mark Twain

Al_Smith

Quote from: cutter88 on November 23, 2012, 06:08:52 PM
those two guys are right that tranny oil is just fine in ur hydraulic... ide say its a heat issue running the loader mabie a cooler will help
Well it's a lot better in cold weather plus tranny fluid can dissipate more heat than regular hydraulic oil .

Okay another story .I worked for an electrical contractor once who was so tight you couldn't pound a flax seed up his rear end with a ball peen hammer .

So blows a main line on a Pitman Polecat II line truck ,40 gallons of type A (tranny fluid ) gone in about a minute and a half flat .Repaired the line then cheap as he was had 40 gallon of 10 WT regular hydraulic oil put in .Grand plan no .

It took 20 minute half an hour of running the stupid thing until the boom would even move .Ohio ,winter time. Lets see how this goes,foreman ,three  journeymen ,two groundman, half hour a day 5 days a week .Tight as he was he figured it out and out went the 10 WT and in went the type A .Mathmatics ain't it wonderfull . 8)

Stephen Alford

Hey graves logging,just wondering how you made out ? As others have said ,sure sounds like a restriction . We have had some cold temps lately,don't suppose water got in while it sat and froze it somewhere.  ::)  Have used those  loaders for awhile and nothing major.  Being metric was a pain years ago .  Hope to see some pics of the setup.  :)
logon

lumberjack48

We used nothing but hyd oil in a Barko 60, down to -40, little stiff at first, but limbered up quick.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

oldseabee

Let me put in my 2 cents worth. Rule of thumb for a mobile hydraulic system that is the primary working system for the machine such as a loader is a tank close to 3 times the size of the pump flow because as a primary system the hydraulics are in use almost constantly   therefore generate a lot of heat. On a skidder the hydraulic system is secondary only used to bump the steer cylinders and occasionaly the blade, even on a grapple the hydraulics are use for a short time, the power train is the primary system and will be in almost constant use, that is why there is a transmission oil cooler to disipate the heat. The pump on the 664 is rated at 20 GPM and the hydraulic system holds 14.4 gallons and there is no cooler in the system. When you use that system as a primary by hooking it into a loader there is no way it can disipate the heat generated unless you add an auxiliary tank or a large oil cooler.

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