I'm thinking about upgrading my 12" jointer to a 20" and the two options I'm considering have either Tersa or Spiral heads calls Xylent heads.
I've read through the FF archives and but am looking for any updated info.
My planer and current jointer has spiral heads, so I'm pretty familiar with them, my old planer and jointer had HSS cutters, and they were extremely loud and I'd get about a week or two out of them before I had to replace or sharpen. Also the feeding force was harder on knives vs spiral heads if I remember correctly. Currently I can go several months before I dull up my carbides.
I've heard good things about the Tersa heads, but don't want to go down the wrong path, or have buyers regret. I've not heard anything in the Xylent heads other than YouTube stuff.
Any experiences good or bad with Tersa or Xylent heads and cutters?
My 12" Griggio jointer has the Tersa head. It does a good job with figured wood, possibly on par with a spiral head. Much better than a standard jointer and I ran comparison tests against a 12" Northfield I had at the time. I've used standard HSS knives and a higher grade, think it is M2 HSS. Knife life is comparable to a standard jointer. No difference in noise level compared to a standard jointer.
The knife's are two sided and not practical to resharpen. Fairly inexpensive and knife changes take less than a minute.
I also have a Byrd Shellix head in my planer so have some experience with that style. With funds I would try a jointer with the Byrd head.
Resurrecting an older thread here - but I'm considering upgrading to a wider jointer with the TERSA cutterhead as well. What did you end up going with @Yellowhammer? My current planer and jointer have helical cutterheads, which I'm very happy with. Anybody have experience with the TERSA and helical insert type cutterheads that can explain pros / cons?
@YellowHammer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) this may help to get his attention. Hope the business is going well.
I'm a big fan of the spiral cutters, both the first generation Byrd and the second generation Xylent. I've used the smaller 4 sided inserts, as well as the 1" double sided inserts. The Xylent (pronounce "Silent") head is so quiet its amazing, and puts a finish so smooth, the board is noticeable harder to grip. It's that good. I the months of life out of my carbides, vs weeks with my older HSS knives. the nice thing about carbides is that several companies make them aftermarket, so I can usually get a good price when I get replacements, sometime half off the MSRP.
I haven't used the Tersa Head.
Changing or rotating the cutters is a process, but easy. I would never go back to HSS knives.
I will never go back to HSS or straight knifes!
need to buy 4 spiral heads for the new moulder, there is a company in canada who looks like they make a fine product
http://www.sheartak.com/shearcut-spiral-cutter-head/125mm-ODx200mm-CLx40mm-Bore-Spiral-Moulder-Head-6-wings
any other sources of moulder heads?
and i think i will go with the more expensive shearcut spiral head compared to the normal straight spiral head , it really makes a difference
There was some discussion about different cutter options in this post from a couple months back:
Best planer (planer/molder) for the money non commercial operation in General Board (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=116073.msg1886981#msg1886981)
I have both Tersa style and carbide insert spiral cutter head machines in my shop.
I prefer the Tersa style for finish work, and the carbide inserts for everything else.
On my moulder, the final .020 plane for the "show side" is from a Tersa style knife. I replaced a Standard straight knife head with it and couldn't bare happier.
The first bottom head on the moulder is a carbide insert "hogged head that removes a lot of stock.
The 25" Oliver jointer planer has spiral carbide inserts top and bottom. One thing that I've learned is that Chinese carbide inserts can be hit and miss in terms of hardness.
So my bottom line is carbide inserts for production volume, Tersa style for final finishes on woodworking and flooring.
Tersa cutter head and knives is what Martin uses in their T45 planer
This last couple weeks I've been thinking of a possible advantage of a Tersa head for my operation, so you guys tell me if my thinking is wrong on this....
It occurs to me that the quick change of Tersa heads would make it ideal for planing my sometimes mud encrusted live edge slabs, which are very dulling in any cutter. I know the best thing is to debark, decrust or otherwise get the bark off, but I'm talking pallet after pallet, sometimes day after day. The place who sometimes planes them uses steel knives in their planer and resharpens them every week. I don't do that, all my cutters in my planers are carbide, and changing therm is about like replacing kernels of corn on a cob....not fun.
Would a Tersa be a good compromise of extended durability and ease of replacement? Can they be resharpened?
I run tersa on the jointer and really like the quick change feature. My planers use old school straight knifes that are a pain to set. On dirty wood we preclean with wire brush and air then run through a wide belt or the old Northfield planer which has a built in sharpener. For me, Tersa wins. I might add that the Swiss Tersa knifes are available in different steels and carbide.
The remainder of my tooling is carbide insert. There is a big difference in carbide quality depending on where it comes from, Swiss,and Itialian far away the best for durability. The US, Taiwanese, and Chinese inserts a distant second. Large diameter heads with many cutting surfaces common on European systems is where I started simply because I didn't know any better starting out. Now I'm reaping the various benefits later on.
My ideal setup would be all tersa on planers jointers surfacers and my existing tooling on the rest of the shop ( Garniga ).
My shop is out of power options short of a genset, otherwise I would just keep growing. But that's another story. Cheers
Here are the different knives
https://tersaknives.com/products/m42 (https://tersaknives.com/products/m42)
Quote from: YellowHammer on August 08, 2022, 07:27:17 AM
It occurs to me that the quick change of Tersa heads would make it ideal for planing my sometimes mud encrusted live edge slabs, which are very dulling in any cutter. I know the best thing is to debark, decrust or otherwise get the bark off, but I'm talking pallet after pallet, sometimes day after day.
Would a Tersa be a good compromise of extended durability and ease of replacement? Can they be resharpened?
Dirty wood sounds like suicide to me, at least with the Tersa M+ knives I run in my jointer. Doesn't take long for dirty wood to nick or dull a knife. Carbide might be a different story, but I have never ran them.
The knives are so small and cheap I don't know if it would be feasible to resharpen.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10125/IMG_083828129.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1659973423)
Replacing is super easy, takes maybe all of a minute to do but I think with what you are contemplating, you better have a huge stock of knives.
In my planer I have a Byrd head with Byrd inserts. Its quieter, at least when sharp, and runs a really long time even in dirty wood.
Sharpening would be very similar to sharpening disposable razor blades.
Larry are you just running the Tersa knives ? You had commented on noise.
Switching to the light weight, noise reducing Tersa™ Cutter Head will enhance your planing experience,
I have a Tersa head in my jointer and a Byrd Shellix in the planer.
Just changed the Tersa knives in the jointer a few minutes ago. It was screaming and I had to wear ear protection because the old knives were dull. The new knives just make a humming sound but noise will increase until they are screaming again. So....they are quieter than a regular head when sharp and new but the noise picks up as they dull.
The planer with the Byrd starts with a hum and gets noisier as the inserts dull. At least with my machine, the noise level never gets terrible, even when dull.
Since I'm on my last knives for the Tersa I ordered a couple of new sets. The knives have two edges. The price per edge is not quite $10 for 12" (310 mm) knives delivered. That's for the M+ steel. They also have regular HSS and chrome both cheaper. More expensive is solid carbide.
Thanks for the feedback Larry. Looks like I would need the whole head to run their knives
Robert, as Rob and others indicated it is not practical to resharpen tersa style knives. All of mine have two sharp edges; when one edge gets dull you simply turn it over. When the second edge gets dull you throw it away.
What is nice about them is that they are self-setting. No fooling around with setup.
I've had better longevity from my caride inserts compared with the Tersa, but I can change Tersa knives in a fraction of the time as it take to turn inserts.
If I were doing a lot of dirty wood, I'd probably want to use a large, old Whitney planer with a built in sharpener and standard knives. This - to me - would be the best of all worlds with dirty lumber.
I ended up with a self-sharpening Northfield for that job. Couldn't afford the Whitney.