circle mill drive

[HPPDRoss]

Hey guys, haven't been on here in a good while and its good to be back. After trial and error running my old mill, going from wood and flat belt to steel and v belts, there was much improvement. I never could find a power unit I could afford so instead I bought an old White single axle road tractor that looks awful but runs great (671 and 10 spd). My question is has anyone used the driveline to power a mill? I got an idea in mind, cutting the frame behind the cab and connecting the driveshaft to a pulley. If anyone has done this or got any pics please pass along any informatiion to me. thanks.

[TKehl]

Saw one setup like this on Sawmill Exchange I think.  Possibly in NY?  I've been looking at a bunch of setups lately to get a handle on it myself.

They left the front axle intact and put a trailer hitch on the rear of the frame so you could move it.

[Kbeitz]

Some trucks you can buy a PTO attachment that bolts right
on the tranny. You might want to check that out. When I
do a google search I come up with this.

https://www.google.com/search?q=white+truck+pto+for+sale&tbm=isch&imgil=jEX7wn2DdrR9sM%253A%253BlcrO306zdphiPM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.wholesaledrivetrain.com%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=jEX7wn2DdrR9sM%253A%252ClcrO306zdphiPM%252C_&usg=__VJLGYUU-wbEtfj3CT3DMfMN3y0A%3D&biw=1088&bih=522&ved=0ahUKEwi_0rDWvYPRAhXiv1QKHYjLBHsQyjcINA&ei=PYNZWP-_CuL_0gKIl5PYBw#imgrc=jEX7wn2DdrR9sM%3A

[ozarkgem]

I know where one is that use's a Mack truck. Did just what you are talking about.

[ozarkgem]

A 6-71 is and a very good engine for your mill. If you can find a twin disc clutch you will be home free.

[Gearbox]

You will need a governer unless it has cruse . Just check the rotation of the drive shaft and pick a gear that turns the right RPM .

[HPPDRoss]

Yeah ozarkgem that's what I'm talking about. Just cut the frame off right behind the cab, set it up and connect the driveshaft to the small pulley that drives the belt.

[whiskers]

my 00 Frick was set up with a 50 hp three phase motor which we replaced with a 300 ford engine, clutch, transmission and drive shaft coupling welded to a pillow block mounted pulley shaft, third gear is 1 to 1.
It's not a production mill, just personal use. This was a temporary fix 15 years ago, it's still on the to do list.

[jdeere540a]

It will work but you will need to change govenor. Detroits in trucks only have a limiting governor power units have a variable speed governor witch is what u need to keep the rpm steady.  Detroits and Cummings have limiting governors but macks and cats have variable speed ones.

[bandmiller2]

Ross, I have seen a mill driven with an old Chevy 2 1/2 ton truck as you describe. Check your rotations you may be able to drive the arbor from the drive shaft direct with at least shear bolts or better a slip clutch. Deere 540 is right about the governor your Detroit just has a limiting speed gov. Your governor is probably set for around 2150 rpm. If you adjust the governor limit to 1800 rpm and hold the throttle wide open it should hold 1800 rpm even under load. You could run a linkage to the clutch and use the one you have, same with a remote throttle. In the winter the cab will be a nice warm place to eat lunch and stow gear. Frank C.

[HPPDRoss]

Hey Frank, good to hear from ya it's been a while. I considered going strait to the arbor but my I believe my mill sits too high off the ground. Reason I even considered this setup is because it's cheap, these old trucks you can find sitting around, I payed scrap price for this truck and it runs like a new one. Rotation is the same so I figured I'd connect it to the small pulley to drive arbor pulley. Next option is my 826 international tractor which I really didn't want to use. I could put it on the opposite side of the mill so it would spin the blade the correct rotation which may be better. This may be overkill considering it's a hobby mill but it made sense to me.

[TKehl]

If you drive off a pulley, the 10 speed gives you a lot of options.  You could let the engine loaf a bit, run a higher gear, and still have the HP you need.  I'm not familiar with Detriots though, so not sure if this is a good idea or not.  Good engines, but they are their own breed.

This guy did something similar with an IH and DT466 but had to reverse the rotation to run farm equipment:

https://www.farmshow.com/a_article.php?aid=13992

Maybe a dumb question, but if you did want to direct drive, could you block the truck or do some dirtwork to elevate it?  Should still have flexibility with that 10 speed, depends on the gears.

[bandmiller2]

Ross, you could go ether way belts or direct. Belts if you have enough are good in the power train as a weak link. On the other hand direct couple pretty much reduces the side load on the arbor, ether way your cruising the interstate. Detroit 6-71 will have plenty of power even if you cut the RPM's a little, which will make it easier to live with. Direct mounted hydraulic pumps are common if you want to run accessories. Your big tractor is also a good option, but you already own the truck. Frank C.

[ddcuning]

Ross, sounds like you are on the right track. I have seen several mills set up with everything from cars, trucks cut in half, etc. The issue as has been mentioned on this thread is keeping the speed constant with varying load which I had never investigated.

Dave C

[HPPDRoss]

Lets say I go direct drive strait to the arbor. How would you connect the driveshaft to the arbor? Only thing that pops in my head is take the yoke off the rearend and try to adapt it to the arbor. I know my arbor is 2 7/16 diameter, not sure on the yoke input.

P.S. Dave I love the videos you made on your frick, you've done an awesome job with the thing.

[ddcuning]

I have the same connection issue with my planer. I am going to come off of the front of the engine to drive the planner an need an adapter. I was thinking of going with a used truck driveshaft for the connection between the engine and planer. I think a collar can be made that would not be that expensive that you could then weld the yolk onto. This would need to be done by a machine shop so that the yolk and collar are in alignment otherwise you would get vibration. That was what I was thinking for my planer and assume that method would work for direct connection to an arbor as well. See if you can find a Belsaw nearby that you can see how they built the adapter for a PTO shaft from a tractor to give you an idea.

Glad you like the videos, it is nice to be sawing instead of head scratching trying to get the mill to work.

Dave C

[Kbeitz]

Borrow someones metal lathe and chuck up your parts.
Smear some JB-weld on the connections and let it harden.
Remove from the lathe and take it to a weld shop.

[TKehl]

To connect and allow for misalignment, my thoughts were:

1.  Spline the arbor shaft to standard tractor PTO. 
2.  Weld a PTO stub to the driveshaft of the truck on the back side of a bearing carrier on the truck shaft.  (I like Kbeitz's alingment method.  Will have to try it.)
3.  Connect the two with a farm PTO shaft that uses a FUNCTIONING slip clutch or shear bolts.

Part of the reasoning is because I have spare farm type PTO shafts available.  I'm sure there are other methods.

Also, this may be too light duty for the power the 671 would be putting out.  This is why higher HP tractors go to 1000 RPM's.  Same principals would apply though just with beefier components.

[whiskers]

 300 ford engine, clutch, transmission and drive shaft coupling welded to a pillow block mounted pulley shaft, third gear is 1 to 1.

Someday a Mercedes om352 diesel engine and transmission will replace the the gas Ford stuff. The slack belt is for the edger.

[bandmiller2]

Ross, some drive shafts use a flange to attach others a spline. I would find a chain sprocket preferably one with a taperlock to fit on the arbor, that will give you a straight face to bolt to. I would remove the splined shaft the yoke mounts to and weld it to another chain sprocket. Welding moves and warps things so I would clamp the stub spline in a lathe chuck and true up the face and diameter. Put the two flanges together clamp and adjust for no run out drill several holes for bolts. Would be good form to find a way to hold the driveline captive in case bolts shear. Frank C.

[ozarkgem]

I would think a good drive line shop could fix you up. Just get your components together
and tell them what you want to do.

[paul case]

I owned one that was direct drive. It worked very well. I think it had a 5 speed and he ran it in 4th gear. The driveshaft had 2 u joints and the connection was made to the mandrel by a 6 or 8 bolt ring welded on to the shaft or the flat belt pulley, I cant remember which.

It was at a neighbor of mine when it was running. You could hear that 671 detriot rev up from my house 2 miles away.

I remember taking some logs to that mill and finding the owner, jr. , sawing on a log under his metal roof with no muffler on his saw. He was trying to cut the rest of the first slab from a log that had burried his saw and when he was almost through it, it jerked the log off the front headblock, killing the motor. His hearing aids were making as much noise as the chainsaw under that tin roof and he couldnt hear any of it. I helped him break the rest of the slab off and we had to jack the log up and scoot it back on the headblock so we could start the engine. What a pain. He only said to me''I may have been cutting too fast''.

PC

[Corley5]

 

 

My driveshaft is attached to a hub on the mandrel with four half inch bolts.  There are scribe marks on the hub from being chucked in a lathe I assume to get everything trued up.  Grandpa used the female driveshaft from his old Case corn chopper.  That got sold at the estate auction.  This shaft I borrowed from my neighbor who used it on his Belsaw.  The tubing is kinda thin and I was concerned about twisting it off but it worked just fine 8)