Hydraulic pump on f5912 deutz engine

[Skidder-man]

I have a old taylor skidder, just like a timberjack, that had a loud old 3 53 detroit in it.. the linkage was all screw up and no one around me is good on them so i ended up pullin it out, long storie short i came across 3 of the 5 cylinder deutz engines, and am putting 1 in there, but i cant figure out how the pump is ran and what size pump i need for it.. the detroit had 2 pump.. id rather run 1 if i could.. only runs sterring wheel and blade.   Any help.. photos.. place to find the pump and attachment

[mike_belben]

What size is the line at the steer valve port.. Dash 8?  With the line size you can calculate the right pump by using the ideal fluid speed in feet per minute formula. 

Too much pump will make for a jerky steer and a relief valve thats always flowing over which just sucks fuel and heats/froths fluid, wears out parts etc.  You mostly only use one of those at a time anyhow.  Its natural for us to err on the side of too much pump because more sounds better.. Quite a few times ive stepped down on something i built for a better controlled machine. 

[kiko]

The reason it has two pumps is to make sure you always have steering pressure. Typically for a one pump set up you would need a priority valve for safety reasons.

[Skidder-man]

Im totally lost when it comes to hydroulics.. idk what a dash 8 fiting is but id say the hoses are 3/8 or 1/2 The old pump was a 19gpm and i replaced them on that old detroit but they was still slow.. the old man who had it befor said it was slow because he replaced the cylinders and the ones he used had bigger roda.. idk why that matters but im all ears for learning  

[Skidder-man]

Plus my main concern also is how to drive the hydraulic pump.. how was the deutz in the c4 tree farmers ans tj driving there hydraulic pump..  was it right off the front of the crank.  If so how woild u find that adapter... also what kinda pump would i need to run both streeing and blade, i was thinking run the return from steering to the in port for blade valve and a big enough pump should power them..but again idk..  thats why im asking

[Oliver05262]

  Anytime I've had a Deutz question or problem, I got all the help I needed from Holtry's In PA
https://deutzboyz.com/
Bill Holtry can get you an answer to almost any parts or service issue you might have. You'll need your engine serial number information so he will know your exact configuration. Good luck with your engine swap. Those engines run strong and just sip  the fuel.

[Don P]

I doubt it really applies here but the 2 cyl deutz on the loader has a pair of Bosch pumps on the front and a large Linde pump on the rear for drive. There is a knockout plate on the front to a gear inside the timing cover that runs the front pumps IIRC.

[mike_belben]

SAE hose sizes go in 8ths of an inch.  Theres 16 sixteenths to the inch 16/16s is dash16 ..thats 1inch ID, -20 is 1-1/4.  Dash 8 is a half inch ID hose.  Anytime you need hoses or fittings youre gonna need that info.  Well, itll help anyway. being able to call ahead and ask if a shop has it in stock can save a ton of pointless driving.  Your hoses should always have a psi spec on the outer jacket and somewhere in that gibberish will be a SAE4 or SAE10.. That sorta thing.  OD is a bad guage since you dont know if you are looking at a 2 wire, 4 wire etc. 

You can adapt a pump to an engine just about any way you can manage a coupling for.  By belt off the front pulley, coupler off the front pulley, double sheaved off the alternator , off the front or back of a camshaft, tandemed off an air compressor, injection pump, steering pump, trans PTO.  Wherever you can mount a pump and grab rotation. Most gear pumps are reversible in the field. 


As to finding the right type of pump.. Its more about the right size for the application. You could math that out, or just think of it like running a front end loader.. Your steer plus blade is pretty close to boom plus curl.  Sometimes used independant sometimes together.  Measure your cylinders and compare them to a tractor with FEL of similar size.  Whatever GPM that pump is will work for you.  

If you err on the small side your steer and blade will be a bit slow but they will not shudder the engine even at idle. You can compensate by raising rpm and waiting for functions. 

If you err on the large side your functions will be fast and twitchy but they will lug the motor because they apply a big enough load faster than the governor can respond.  If the pumps way too big itll stall the machine at idle. You can compensate somewhat by reducing the relief valve setting so that the load is smaller but yma result is weaker steer and blade force.  Obviously getting the right pump displacement is the goal. 


   A complete ballpark guesstimate from me is 10-15gpm. when the machine steers as fast as you want and the governor keeps stable rpm you have the right sized pump. Basic 2bolt SAE pattern gear pumps are like a $100 and come in a ton of sizes so you can dial that in affordably.  Theyre throwaways, a consumable really. Just make sure you dont exceed the rated rpm.  Over 3000rpm you start spending real money on pumps.  Any chinese junk will live down at 2k.  Gas engines and cheap pumps thus do not compliment each other duento mismatched rpm.  


I highly recommend you use SAE Oring fittings in the pump ports instead of NPT. (Not to be confused with ORFS thats a flat face o ring coupling that is replacing JIC swivels on hoses.) This is a thread connection to the pump body with an O ring that sits under a washer and nut.  You clock a 90" elbow whereve you want and bind it down.  With NPT you really need to come out of the pump threads with a straight fitting because it usually wont clock where it also becomes correctly torqued.  At a glance they two female ports in a pump are hard to distinguish.  SAE Oring is not tapered and has a large bevel cut at the thread start for the O ring to live. The oring makes the seal, not the threads.  No need for tape or good and you can reuse a thousand times if the oring is good.  NPT is tapered thread where threads make the seal.  There will be no bevel for an Oring. 


Surplus center and baileysonline is where i get the stuff at.