Patti's latest

[Den Socling]

Patti is making a table from some wood that I've had laying around from "product testing". My notes said it was Cebil, Quebracho and Lapacho but I don't know. There are some strange smells when working with the stuff! I read somewhere that Quebracho is Spanish for axe breaker. While ripping it, the smell of the dust reminded of the nasty smell that the dentist makes when he is burning away.



 



 

Patti



 

Patti's parts lol



 

[bedway]

Sure is good looking wood. Ill bet a finish will make it pop!

[Den Socling]

I'm trying to get her to turn to you guys for advice. She has never done anything like this before.

[Patti]

Hello All,  Patti here.  I was wondering what the general opinion is regarding finishing the table top.  Should I glue it first then cut to size, or cut each board to size then join them?   I don't have a joiner so I was planning on using a router as a biscuit joiner.  Also, I was planning on pre-finishing the top as I am using different types of wood, then giving the whole thing the last coat when it is all together.  Any tips would be helpful, as I am a novice.  Thank you in advance.

[Texas Ranger]

Opinions vary, but, I glue up first then cut to size.  Finish after you glue and size.  Allows a little room to adjust pattern of grain, etc.

And if you have not been on the forum before, Welcome to the Forum!

[Den Socling]

Here are a couple more pictures of the parts she is working with.



 



 

That was her first post but she has been lurking. This is her first table.

[Ljohnsaw]

Patti,

Welcome and here is MY opinion(s), worth every cent you paid for them :D

First, I'm a little OCD - With the 7 top boards you have, I would arrange them so they are balanced in color.  The one odd board would be in the middle and then arrange the others to each side so they mirror each other.  Not sure of the order - I'd have to try them out and see but probably any order will do.

For the order of glue up vs. finish.  I have NEVER been able to get a perfectly smooth top gluing up.  I always have to sand things flush so don't waste time pre-finishing what you will likely sand off anyhow.  During glue-up, have wet rags available to wipe up the squeeze out (if lots) or just let it set and pop it off with a chisel when dry if it is just little beads (less mess).  I've seen somewhere where someone put blue tape on the top surface of each board edge to minimize the glue-up mess.  Then you don't have to worry about smearing glue in the grain and affecting your finish.

This looks to be a stunning table when you get done!

[Den Socling]

She has been testing a lot of different finishes.



 



 

It's some really pretty wood. The only thing I worry about is different densities. I'm not sure how reliable the glue joints will be if EMC changes.

[Patti]

Thank you all for the welcome and the ideas.  I think I will glue first.  One of pieces of wood (I think it is the Lapacho) has a green dust that I was afraid would stain the other woods - that was my reasoning on pre-finishing - to minimize that.  You will have to forgive (or educate) me when I don't use the proper "wood"  language as I am new to this game.  :-\

[Magicman]

as I am new to this game.  :-\

First, Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Patti.   Don't worry, your "game" will be fine, and remember that the only dumb question is an unasked question.   

[Den Socling]

And regarding the order the boards go, her girl friend who gets the table spent a half hour staring and arranging them. She is planning on coming back and doing some more staring!  :D

[Texas Ranger]

Patti, every time I pick up a piece of wood for a project, I am new to the game.  Variation is the norm in the woodworking business.

[samandothers]

Looking at the grain in the boards I have heard it is good to alternate the boards so the grain is not oriented the same direction as you lay out the top.  Example looking at the end alternate the grain smile up and smile down.   

As I am not by any means a wood worker I hope others will chime in if I am off base here.

[Patti]

I'm going to lay those boards out as you suggested.  My friend (I'm making the table for her) is stopping by today, and I'll get her input.  Thanks!

[coxy]

Patti welcome to the forum  8) 8)  I am by no means a wood worker just a tree cutter  ;D but that is going to be a very nice looking table when your done with it  cant wait    

[bedway]

The input from others above is sound. Main points being, alternate grains, make sure the edges mate well and glue up first before any finish is applied. If applying finish before glue up any finish that covers the edge will contaminate the glue up integrity. Be mindful of how you sand the surface after the glue up. Ive seen far to many people take a belt sander to a surface and end up with waves on a ocean. You will be fine, and I admire your tackling of this project. Keep us posted.

[Hilltop366]

Welcome Patti, the only thing I could add is when gluing be ready with extra boards and clamps to hold the table top flat and alternate the clamps from top to bottom to help stop cupping of the top from clamping pressure.

I will also add that larger glue-ups can be done in smaller sections and then glue the sections together, but take care to not damage the edges of the boards with the clamps by using strips of wood in between the boards and the clamps.

[Patti]

Thanks guys.  I was planning on gluing two boards at a time.  And using clamps.  My workspace is kind of limited (it looks a lot bigger in the pics than it is, and I keep getting flack from my boss if I block his path ;D to the kilns).    It is worrisome to be using so many different types of wood in such a big project, but I've been mixing wood when I make benches, so I'm hopeful.  I'm sure I'll be back with more questions.

[Ljohnsaw]

Welcome Patti, the only thing I could add is when gluing be ready with extra boards and clamps to hold the table top flat and alternate the clamps from top to bottom to help stop cupping of the top from clamping pressure.

I will also add that larger glue-ups can be done in smaller sections and then glue the sections together, but take care to not damage the edges of the boards with the clamps by using strips of wood in between the boards and the clamps.

+1 on that, especially the edge strips to protect.  I've done a LOT of oak glue ups with my pipe clamps.  Really annoying when the glue touches both the pipe and the wood - nice dark stain :(

I cut up a bunch of PVC scraps into 3" sections.  I slide a bunch of those on the pipe for the wood to rest on.  The glue doesn't stick and the wood doesn't stain.

[Gary_C]

Pay particular attention to keeping all the boards at equilibrium moisture which means do not let any boards lay flat on another board. Make sure you have good airflow around each board until you glue up, sand and finish on all sides. With the different species it's your best chance to keep the table flat. 

[Den Socling]

Our daughter asked for a shoe rack for her porch so Patti took time off the table project.



 



 



 

And Jessica is going to stack muddy boots on it?

[Savannahdan]

That's nice.  She does excellent work.

[Den Socling]

I tell you this woman has more projects than she has shoes. Wrong! She has an awful lot of shoes!  :D



 



 

Looks like somebody shot our dog, Kona.

A big pin oak died in the front yard. A neighbor and I used most of it for firewood but that monster stump remained. Patti got the idea of burning a bowl in it to plant flowers.



 

She has been burning charcoal for days. Occasionally she lets it go out and chops out the charcoal then lights it again. The neighbors must think she has a screw lose!

[Czech_Made]

Thanks for sharing

I done that too - I mean a planter out of a stump.

[thecfarm]

That looks good.
Someone would shoot our other dog and we are on a hill and he would wiggle his way down the hill about 20 feet at times.

[Den Socling]

Patti has her bowl burned out. Today she started pulling back weeds to plant morning glories around the base of her stump. She discovered she had a lot of company!



 



 



 



 

They are just Garter Snakes and they don't bother her. It's just amazing that she was working around them everyday and didn't know they were there.

[Den Socling]

She keeps coming to me for advice and I keep telling her to ask you guys who know what you are doing. Anyway, here is an update. Yesterday I heard the router start. A few seconds later there was a blue streak that you would never expect from a lady!  :D The router got away from her and came up through the top of the first board. I ran it through the table saw on which I added a 10' fence. The table will be 1/2" less wide but all is OK. Today she started gluing.

Has she gone mad or is she just having a good time?



 



 



 

I think she is having a great time. I hope it turns out well for her.

[Lud]

If I was you, I'd be very proud of her!  (I think you are too!!) 8)

[Den Socling]

You bet I am!  8)

[Den Socling]

She has the top glued and sanded. Sanding was tough because the different species had different densities. She had to be really careful at the joints so that she wouldn't sand the softer wood away. She used tape and did a lot of hand sanding. Today we flipped it over and it weighs a ton!



 

[Just Me]

 If it was me, being as there are distinctly different species that are going to expand and contract at different rates, I would do a heavy base coat, both sides with West System using 207 hardener. West finishes will let you bend the rules a bit.

Also, if there is a stretcher cross grain for the legs, fasten it solid in the middle and allow for movement on both sides. The reason you fasten solid in the center is so that the movement is equal on both sides.

Don't say if you are doing a breadboard end, but if you are you will have to make the same provision or you will get splits. I hate breadboard ends for this reason but if I have to do them I use a sliding dovetail, again, fastened in the center.

Table is looking awesome. Wish my wife was into woodwork, but my machines scare the hell out of her.

Me too! Just got nailed by a kickback.

PS: Like the final layout, it is exactly what I would have picked.

[Ianab]

I wouldn't be too worried about expansion differences in the top.  Reason is that the woods wont change in length, only width really. If one board expands slightly more than others, it doesn't affect the glue up, just the overall width of the top. And you have to account for that in your design anyway. (breadboard ends etc)

But a good varnish coating on both sides is still a good plan, especially if some of the woods are softer. An epoxy type varnish will harden up the surface and help it wear better.

[Patti]

Thanks for the tips guys.  My girlfriend (I'm making the table for her) wants a natural finish.  She wants the wood to look as natural as possible.  I was going to use a water based spar urethane.  I didn't want the wood to "warm" using a poly.  I'm going to work on the base, and probably experiment with the under side of the table top.  I'm making my own filler out of glue and sawdust (from the actual boards), as I like the look of it better than anything I've purchased so far.  I have a tendency to "over-engineer" when I use my own design.  I was planning on doing an apron set about 3 inches inside the table top.  The legs are going to be inside the apron with boards on the inside of the apron between the legs (I am working on learning technical terms....very slowly), plus I was going to use those triangle thingies ( :D), on the legs too.  I don't want that table to move!!  Any tips are appreciated.  You all have a great Father's Day (I'm going to visit mine and cook him dinner).

[Den Socling]

She keeps at it. Maybe a bit unorthodox ( :D) but it is stiff! This is her frame.



 



 

And this is the underside of her tabletop.



 



 

Right now she's out there making aluminum angles to fasten the top to the frame. It has to come apart for transport into her friends dining room. She has made a lot of brackets!

[Den Socling]

This is how her table currently looks.



 

She is talking about sanding the poly off the two dark boards because she left brush strokes.



 

And as you can see, she is afraid the top is going to fall off the base.

[Den Socling]

People around here used to complain about the size of our building and the extensions I have put on the original. Now Patti for one, thinks we need more space.


 



 

[kensfarm]

Wow.. that looks really nice!  Now you have to test it w/ food. Mmmm

[Ox]

Quote:  People around here used to complain about the size of my buildings.                                                                        It is my experience that people will complain and put down your stuff simply out of jealousy.  It sure is cringe-worthy when it's happening in real time in front of you, with all the face contortions and voice changes.  Pathetic.

Your table looks VERY nice, Patti.  You should be very proud of yourself.  Thanks for sharing the pics, Den!

[Den Socling]

Everyone who has seen it praises her for her work. She, on the other hand, frets over imperfections. I tell her that if she wants perfect, get plastic! 

[ScottAR]

Better is the enemy of good.

I think it's great!...  I'd eat a meal at it.  ;D

[Den Socling]

The first time we tried to deliver Patti's table, the top got scratched. It weighs a ton. She sanded all of the old finish off and did it again. We finally got it delivered last night.


 

Her girl friend was tickled to death.


 

So we christened it.


 



 

[samandothers]

Patti you should be proud!  You did a great job.   

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Beautiful Den!

[Den Socling]

She put a lot of work into that table. Since it was the first table she ever built and she taught herself off the Internet, I think it is a real accomplishment. Not to mention that Lapacho, Ipe and Quebracho are tough species to work with!

[caveman]

Beautiful work. 

[Patti]

Thank you all for the encouragement and praise.  It was fun and a real learning adventure.