black walnut seedlings

[DWM II]

I've got a 900ft power line down one side of my property. I have to keep it open to the power corp. but want to plant something along this to add some asthetics to it. How far off center of the lines should I plant black walnut so it doesnt pose a threat to the power lines, and how far apart should I plant the trees so they will grow and produce at an optimum. Should i even plant this species? I wont have any structures close to them so flying nuts souldnt be a problem when I bush hog, what about grass species, I understand that the trees put out a chemical that prohibits some from growing. What type of grass will grow here if  plant them?

Thanks, Donnie

[Larry]

First check with the power company.  If they have an easement it could be almost any width and they could have the right to clear cut or spray anything in there easement.  Some power lines were put in years ago without an easement...in that case about all they can legally do is keep trees out of there wires.  I planted shrubs, picked to benefit wildlife directly under the powerline on my property.  They should never get over about 15' tall.  Thirty foot on either side of the line I started in with the hardwoods.

Have no idea how walnuts grow in your part of the country but around here they really like good moist soil.  On my farm they grow like weeds on the north slopes...on the south slopes they survive and that is about it.  The south slopes are to dry for them.

Grass can be fatal to newly planted walnuts...the grass takes to much water out of the soil and chokes the walnuts out.  The walnut trees won't hurt the grass at all.  Walnut sawdust will kill the grass...but you won't have that problem for 50 years.

[SwampDonkey]

If you plant any trees maintain a distance from the edge of the line equal to the height of a mature tree. I'de leave 100 feet, which is 30 meters. The power line companies here will cut 30 m each side of their lines besides the space in between. We often have 3 or 4 wired lines in parallel on steel towers or treated poles. Walnut is like butternut and can have some really long lateral branches that are prone to wind breakage (wide branch angle). I assume you have a field up to the edge of the lines? I'm not sure of which species of grass are tolerant of juglone (sp?). I know species in the night shade family like potatoes, tomatoes, egg plant, peppers, enchanters nightshade are affected. Apparently, Fescue grass is allelopathic to walnut so avoid that one.

I found a list on a site of tolerant grasses:

white clover; red top grass; orchard grass; timothy; wheat

[DWM II]

All the easement guarentees is 15' off center of the line. It was not there when I purchased the land, but granted later. My main concern was that the trees will not grow into the line. Its only a double line vertical parralell. So, how wide can I expect the canopy to grow, and how far apart do you think they should be planted?

Thanks, Donnie

[SwampDonkey]

I'de still leave 100 feet and plant them 20 feet apart if your just growing them for ornamentals. They can grow 130 feet high. Look at the natural ones to get an idea of their growth/branching habit. Those laterals can grow outward a ways, probably 70 or 80 feet when mature. I have an immature butternut that has 30 foot limbs, the tree is 45 years old I think.

[Phorester]

Donnie, have youu asked the power company about any agreement with landowners to maintain the gound under the line themselves?  Here in VA, at least in my area, the power companies will let the landowners manage the ROW directly under the line for wildlife with the understanding that they will grow nothing that gets over "x" feet tall, whatever the maximum height the power company wants.  The power Co. agrees not to spray or do any vegetation management under the line as long as the landowner holds up his end of the deal.

Is this open field where you will be planting the walnuts, or in the woods alongside the line?

[DWM II]

The ground underneath is mine to maintaine. In the event that I dont take care of it, they reserve the right to do what they have to do to protect the service. Mine is the only property this servitude currently serves, I granted it for my future use but it also establishes future service to the property behind me where there is no development now. At the rate of development here that wont be for long, that is why the power corp ran this line at no cost to me. The servitude agreement is for a right of way 30' wide. That is what they got right now. It was cut out of wooded property and the ROW is the only thing clear at the moment. Sounds to me though the trees will grow a canopy that will with time get into the lines, I think the walnut trees will find a home where they wont cause trouble. I've got five acres to play with so it should'nt be to much trouble.


I will find something to dress up this area, feel free to make suggestions ;).
Thanks, Donnie

[bitternut]

Donnie I think a lot will also depend on what direction the power line runs. If it runs east and west the trees on the north side will head for the power lines in a big way. The ones on the south side won't infringe on the line near as much. Trees have a habit of filling up any open space.

[Phorester]

Black walnut is considered to be intolerant of shade.  It needs direct sunlight to grow.  That means that black walnut seedlings a couple feet tall will have almost a zero chance of surviving if they are planted underneath a forest canopy doezens of feet tall.   

That's why I was asking if they would be planted in open fields or in the woods.  Also given the requirement of walnut to grow only in the very best of soils, I doubt you will be successful planting walnut seedlings in this location. 

I feel you will be better off choosing trees of valuable species that are already there and are as tall as their neighboring trees.  Then manage them by giving them more sunlight.  This can be done by cutting down any neighboring trees that are the same height and whose branches are within 4 feet of the branches of the desirable trees, or trees that are overtopping the desirable trees.   Trees that are shorter than the desirable trees can be left.

[SwampDonkey]

I was under the impression that there was lawn or field, since it was a two-fold question asking about what species of grass would survive under them. Not too many grasses growing in under hardwood canopy. ;D Apparently, ferns and jack-in-the-pulpit grow fine under them (walnut). Both are on rich sites. The habitat as Phorester mentioned does lend it self to those species being present sometimes if they grow in your area. Butternut would require very much the same type of soils. I never find them on poor sites. And I agree they need lots of light, however in early development (if they are at all similar to butternut) they will germinate and grow in under hardwood canopy and more often on clearcut sites here with aspen and ash canopy you will find butternut. The aspen and ash do not cast as much shade as the hardwood though. I've cut butternut logs from Yellow Birch-Sugar Maple-Ash stands up here, a cover type once very common in the Acadian Forest. Much of which has been converted to farmland causing some species on the fringe of their range to become increasing hard to find in our area.

[DWM II]

OK lets give up on the black walnuts. Given that the ROW is 30' wide 900' long and wooded pretty well on both sides, what would be a good fit here? We have lots of deer squerrills and rabbits that use this area and I would like to produce something that would benefit them. The bottom of the lines are about 25' high so that negates a lot of tree species. Please understand that I dont have any horticulture background so I dont have a clue what would work. I do think that the soil conditons are very good, I can do some sampling and testing if needed.

[Larry]

I planted shrubs, picked to benefit wildlife directly under the power line on my property.  They should never get over about 15' tall.

Still could be an issue with the power company...some want to be able to drive a vehicle under the lines for maintenance. 

Check with your state conservation department/DNR...I'm sure they can provide you with a list of plants beneficial to wildlife.  I planted all kinds of stuff for quail restoration...and it is working.

[submarinesailor]

I recommend planting dogwoods down each side.  The power company likes it because they don't grow tall and I have shot many squirrels out of dogwoods.  Also, turkeys love the berries.

Bruce

[Phorester]

Work with what trees you already have in the woods.  Find out from local Foresters or mills down your way what the high value tree species are.  If you have any of those already in your woods , work with those. Give them more sunlight and growing space by cutting down or deadening the close and overtopping trees.  For squirrels, hickories can be managed.  Opening them up to more sunlight will increase their nut production.

Bruce's idea of planting dogwoods along the edge is good.  Dogwood berries are eaten by lots of wildlife.

[DWM II]

Dog wood does sound appealing. The blooms are a nice sight as well. Staying with a blossom theme how tall do wild cherry tend to get? As far as trees growing in the general area, most of what is there is tallow (china ball) that is gonna be removed. There is some white oak and pin oak. I will have to remove most of the pin oak due to rot at the bases. I would love to have more white oak species and will plant more of these as I go and the pin oak is removed. I did see something this fallI have not seen before maybe yall have, I saw squirrells cutting magnolia cones! Tell me if I am nuts myself but I aint never seen that.

[Larry]

Sarvis or serviceberry blooms earlier than dogwood but is often mistaken for dogwood.  Two species of dogwood to consider planting.  Redbud is always a favorite.  Than to add little contrast and wildlife food maybe ninebark, sumac, and arrowwood.  Little witchhazel to spice up things.

Wild cherry...two varieties that I know of...one will go to maybe 60' with the other going maybe 20'.

Planting trees or shrubs is hard work and not something to be taken lightly.  Best advice is going to come from somebody local...that has knowledge and experience.  So...ya might take my advice with a grain of salt.

[DWM II]

No Larry i wont take your advice lightly, thats why i keep asking questions here. I greatly appreciate the opinons and learning I get here, keep it coming.