Thoughts about nailing thin square edge flooring?

alan gage · November 28, 2018, 10:14:34 AM

This winter I'll be installing random width (1.5" to 3") ash flooring in part of my house. I cut it thin and planed it down to 7/16" so it can be installed on top of the existing subfloor without interfering with doors or other clearance issues.

My main question concerns the best way(s) to nail it.

One option is decorative cut nails. I think this would look nice (or not...I'm undecided) but I'm guessing I'll need to pre-drill all the holes? I think I'll also have to slightly counter sink the nails without making a noticeable dent with the hammer. I worry a little about splitting the ends of the boards but I guess if pre-drilling that shouldn't be an issue. This option seems like it might be a bit slow and tedious.

The other option easily available to me is to use a 15 gauge finish nailer. This would be quick and easy and I don't think I'd object to the small holes. But I do wonder if the nails will have enough holding power?

Any thoughts, words of wisdom, or cautions would be appreciated.

Alan

Magicman · November 28, 2018, 11:44:33 AM

I used 2½" X 15ga finish nails to nail the T&G flooring down on my Cabin Addition. It is all randomly "surfaced" nailed. I angled the nailer different ways to increase the surface that contacts the nails plus the angled nails would make it almost impossible for the flooring to ever loosen.

btulloh · November 28, 2018, 05:34:06 PM

15 ga. strip nails look like kinda like small cut nails. It would be nice if you can get the depth set so they were just flush, but I can't seem to get it that consistent. Mostly I set it to leave them a little proud and get the last tap with a hammer to set them flush. If you do use cut nails, they're made to avoid splitting but the grain instead of wedging through. May be dicey on the end of q-sawn pieces though.

Ash should make a beautiful floor.

bobborneman · November 28, 2018, 10:41:11 PM

I used to have a hardwood flooring business, and I used a Porta-Nailer nailer with good success for the floors I did. I think it will work if you have squared off boards, as opposed to tonge and groove which is what I did. The nailer will nail diagonally into the SIDE of the board, just below the top edge, which leaves no nail marks. Of course the last few boards when you get close to the wall will have to be face nailed since you will not be able to fit the nailer between the board and the wall. For face nailing, you can use the 15ga nail gun, or the Porta-Nailer comes with a cleat for face nailing. The Porta-Nailer uses a special serrated nail that holds tight over the years. You can buy the nails at any big box store.

You can rent the nailers from the big box stores, but if you need it for more than a couple days, it ends up being cheaper to just buy a nailer. If you are interested, I would be willing to sell my nailer as I have no plans to use it. Just message me if interested. Here is a link to the nailer so you can see what I am talking about

Porta-Nails? Pneumatic Nailers

runmca · November 29, 2018, 10:19:31 AM

I put down some sugar maple in my wife's 'she shed' using cut nails. The boards were about 4" wide and 3/4" thick. I used 2" nails (I think). I definitely had to drill, the one time I didn't it split. Most of these were quarter sawn and the nails had to be in the right direction with grain or also would split. As you can see I wasn't too concerned with hammer marks ;D. However that wood is HARD, even though the hammer left some residue, it didn't leave bad indents. I'm guessing Ash would be similar.

fishfighter · December 01, 2018, 06:56:06 AM

Why not just glue the flooring down? I just installed some Rosewood flooring. It's T&G, but moisture could be a problem down the line for me from under neat the flooring.

Home Depot sells some good glue. It is high dollar stuff, but after installing my floor, I feel it can move as needed and not pop up.

I did nail down every third row. Got it sanded out yesterday, just need to go back and finish sanding along the walls.

Don P · December 01, 2018, 07:53:09 AM

For hammer dings, as long as the grain is not cut we use a damp cloth and an iron to steam and lift them. Course they can also be viewed as rustic charm.

The porta nailer will hold down the leading edge but without a tongue and groove on the other it will simply pop the back edge up.

alan gage · December 05, 2018, 10:06:51 AM

Thanks for the great input. At this point I'm leaning towards using the 15 gauge trim nailer. Still have a little wait until it's ready to go down. Right now it's stacked and stickered in the basement to finish drying.

I'm also wondering what to do about the insect tracks in the sapwood pieces. Right now they're still packed with sawdust, which I don't mind at all, but I'm worried that after installation and finishing that sawdust will have a tendency to flake out and leave holes. If I discarded all the pieces with insect tracks I'd lose a fair amount of square footage. Wondering how other people have handled this.

Below are a couple pictures of affected pieces. The first picture shows how they are now the second picture is after scraping some sawdust out with a screw driver.

btulloh · December 05, 2018, 11:23:11 AM

Fill those pockets with something or they'll be dirt catchers forever. Sawdust and wood glue, filler, whatever. Sounds like that could be quite a job if there are a lot of 'em. I'm sure the stuff that's in there now will blow out with compressed air.

Are you going to sand it after it's down? That might make the filling thing a little easier.

alan gage · December 05, 2018, 12:30:35 PM

Quote from: btulloh on December 05, 2018, 11:23:11 AM
Fill those pockets with something or they'll be dirt catchers forever. Sawdust and wood glue, filler, whatever. Sounds like that could be quite a job if there are a lot of 'em. I'm sure the stuff that's in there now will blow out with compressed air.

Are you going to sand it after it's down? That might make the filling thing a little easier.

I will be sanding it after install.
Maybe I'll put some finish on one of those wormy boards as a test to see how easy the sawdust comes out afterwards. Would be great not to have to do anything to them. I'm surprised how well the sawdust is packed in.
I also haven't looked at the other sides of the boards to see if both are affected. Maybe I can get lucky and eliminate much of the problem by just putting the worst face down.
Alan

Magicman · December 05, 2018, 01:49:15 PM

I would be more interested in putting the "bark" side of the boards down rather than being concerned about the bug holes. Reason being that if there is ever any inclination for the board to cup, the edges would be downward.

alan gage · December 05, 2018, 02:20:17 PM

Quote from: Magicman on December 05, 2018, 01:49:15 PM
I would be more interested in putting the "bark" side of the boards down rather than being concerned about the bug holes. Reason being that if there is ever any inclination for the board to cup, the edges would be downward.

That's a good point. The widest planks are 3" and the narrowest 1.5" (the rest are 2.5"). Would probably be a good idea to pay attention to bark up/down on the wider ones. I'd think the 1.5" boards would be safe to flip for appearances.
Alan

Magicman · December 05, 2018, 02:53:37 PM

Angling the nail gun rather than shooting straight down will add strength as well as adding resistance to any tendency for any nail to "un-nail" itself as weather/humidity conditions change.

Bruno of NH · December 06, 2018, 05:57:01 PM

They make a great oak paste filler for hardwood flooring.
Blow the sawdust out,install flooring,trowel on the wood filler and then sand.
It will look great.

Hooterspfld · December 15, 2018, 04:43:06 PM

I've used this filler on flooring before with good success and my local Home Depot stocks it.

alan gage · January 02, 2019, 10:44:47 AM

I got the flooring done in my bedroom last week. Went quick and pretty easy. Had 6' and 8' long planks but very few went down full length due to crook or knots. More waste than I thought. There are some gaps I couldn't avoid but overall I'm happy with it. Went ahead and face nailed with the 15 gauge pneumatic. Glad I did.

I nailed at the joists but without the tongue and groove one piece would sometimes be high in-between so I'd shoot it again. Rented a floor sander after I was done to flatten it. One coat of shellac sealer and then 3 coats of water based poly. The shellac added a little color and kept the water based poly from raising the grain.

I went ahead and used those pieces with bug tracks. Once coated the embedded sawdust seems stuck solid and after all 4 coats of finish they're nearly flush with the surface and not rough. I saved most of those for the closet.

Alan

petefrom bearswamp · January 02, 2019, 03:55:48 PM

Looks nice Alan, lots of character with the sapwood to heartwood contrast.
Our hardwood floors have developed some squeaks after 25 yrs, but in the summer baby powder in the cracks seems to quiet it down.
Our boards are from 3 to 9" wide in the hardwood and 10 to 16 wide EWP in the bedroom areas.
so more movement from season to season.

alan gage · January 02, 2019, 05:41:08 PM

Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on January 02, 2019, 03:55:48 PM
Looks nice Alan, lots of character with the sapwood to heartwood contrast.
Our hardwood floors have developed some squeaks after 25 yrs, but in the summer baby powder in the cracks seems to quiet it down.
Our boards are from 3 to 9" wide in the hardwood and 10 to 16 wide EWP in the bedroom areas.
so more movement from season to season.

Thanks. I don't hear any squeaking yet but I can foresee (forehear?) it in the future with the lack of tongue/groove allowing pieces to move against each other between joists (nails). Strip widths were 1.5", 2.5" and 3". I don't notice the variation in width when looking at the floor but it was nice to have some of those 1.5" pieces when things needed to be brought back under control since they could be molded into shape better than the wider ones.
Alan

Don P · January 02, 2019, 09:41:08 PM

Looks nice! If you are going to do more check compatability of the shellac and poly with a paint shop. I don't know with modern poly but back in the day we had to watch what was under oil based poly, it didn't stick well to things like sanding sealer.

btulloh · January 03, 2019, 08:25:14 AM

I haven't used water based poly over shellac, but I bet it is ok. I've never seen anything that wouldn't work over shellac. Or under shellac. Shellac is the miracle drug. I'll be curious to see if someone has some real info on water based poly adhering to shellac. With the weather pattern we're stuck in I might find time to run some adhesion tests.

Did you use the Bullseye ready-mix shellac?

btulloh · January 03, 2019, 08:25:50 AM

PS - Your floor looks real good.

alan gage · January 03, 2019, 10:46:53 AM

Quote from: btulloh on January 03, 2019, 08:25:14 AMDid you use the Bullseye ready-mix shellac?

Yes. They have a couple different ones. I used the "seal coat" version. I believe it's just a thinner cut. Zinsser® SealCoat? Universal Sanding Sealer Product Page

It says it will work with oil or water finishes. The water/poly can said if you have an old floor coated with shellac that it needs to be sanded to bare wood before putting down the poly. I'm guessing that's if it's waxed shellac, which this isn't.

I did a sample piece before the whole floor and adhesion seemed fine. Didn't give it a real test though.

Alan

alan gage · February 10, 2020, 12:25:57 PM

It's been a little over a year since I did this floor and I'm happy (and relieved) to report there are no issues so far. This winter, with two wood stoves cranking and very dry air, there has been a little shrinkage but they are very small gaps and I didn't really even notice until I started looking. I also put down the same flooring in the spare bedroom but back issues stopped me from sanding and finishing it last year. It's doing fine in that condition. No cupping or large gaps.

I'm not a huge fan of the yellowish cast the shellac added. I'm thinking about skipping that step when it's time to do the rest of the house.

Alan

kantuckid · March 10, 2020, 10:02:50 AM

In the old part of my log house I drilled pockets in the face of oak boards, nailed then plugged with walnut pegs, then sanded. In today's world I'd use torx screws & plugs but my house was "hand nailed" back when.
The newer part of my house also has home made oak wide boards, T&G and nailed as normal for wood flooring but I used my Senco finish nail gun, not a floor nailer. It gets some wood movement over the seasons but in the end it's a log house and rustic overall so some cracks @ edges as would be expected.