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Ash tree help

Started by runmca, July 07, 2017, 09:17:29 PM

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runmca

Hi-

I have a couple of Ash trees (I think) in my backyard. One looks healthy to me, the other not so much. Can anyone verify they are ash? If so, any thoughts if the unhealthy one might be subject to EAB. Here are three pics of the 'healthy' one.






And here are three of the unhealthy one

I may be difficult to see but there are a few dead branches half way up on the left side






Thanks,
Mark

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

runmca

Thanks for the confirmation WDH.

Anyone have thoughts on the health of the second tree?

WDH

It does not look the best, but give it some more time to see if if might get better.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

TreeStandHunter

They are definitely Ash. Look for Borer marks on the bark you will see little holes. They can have death in the canopy for various reasons other than EAB and it is difficult too see in your photos if there are borer holes. If you see the holes the tree will not recover on its own. You can purchase products off of Amazon that are very easy to use you just drill into the bark and tap the spike in that contains the instecticide. If one of the trees has it the other will as well.
In the process of building my own mill.

square1

That epicormic growth on the trunk of the unhealthy tree is another EAB indicator.  Check for loose bark and bark splits. Many times you can pry open the splits a little and see the galleries created by the larva.  We found the D shaped exit holes,  suckering,  loose bark,  and splits are usually evident on the south facing trunk first when EAB was the culprit.  Bayer Tree & Shrub has worked well on a couple yard trees we wanted to save and had been treating for a few years before EAB became evident in the area.  They're the only (2) mature ash trees for miles around.  It did not do much for trees at another location that had been under obvious attack though.

Lumbergent

My land is surrounded with beautiful white ash if I ever see someone from the city bringing ash firewood to my place I think I'll have a heart attack. I'm even considering having family and friends wash their cars before coming over.
But I'm resigned with the fact that sooner or later they will be trashed. I started planting oak and walnut to eventually take their place
Futur Hobbit

Southside

Not to dampen your spirit there but now the walnut has thousand canker disease and the white oak has wilt, so.... On a good note - there ain't nothing that is killing Sweet Gum!!  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
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Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
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White Oak Meadows

Lumbergent

Sweet Gum?? I just looked it up. It a beautiful tree but not sure it will grow this far north. I'll talk to some people I know at a tree farm not far from here.
Thanks for the suggestion. But i am pretty discouraged about what is happening to our trees. Are they the canaries in the coal mine?
Futur Hobbit

WV Sawmiller

Lumbergent,

   I think Southside is pulling your leg. I think the reason nothing bothers the sweetgum is that nothing wants or uses them (except beavers love them).
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

DelawhereJoe

When I had goats they preferred the sweet gum over all the other trees. I have white oaks that are slowly dieing off over a few years I think its from Oak anthracnose. The snow and ice storm from last week only seemed to really damage the red maples. Lost 3 trees completely and will have to drop 3 or 4 more that were so damaged from having all there branches ripped off that if left they will just die.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

runmca

It's been almost a year since my original post, here's an update.

Here's the one that was 'healthy' last year (picture 1 from original post). Not looking so good now.





Looks like EAB got it  :(





Here's the 'unhealthy' one (picture 4 from original post). Looks about the same as last year, no bore holes noticeable.





Probably take the infected one down in the fall.

runmca

I ended up taking them both down this past weekend. Replaced one with a White Oak.




Old Greenhorn

It's a shame, these are noble, pretty, and very useful trees. I have taken down around 40 or so in the last 10 months on a 10 acre plot. All dead or nearly so. I have also been marking others to watch through the growth season, none of those are healthy either, but I am keeping some for a few years while they are still viable. We got a sawmill to make some lumber out of them because there is so much and you can only use so much firewood. It's a shame to make those nice big stems into cord wood. They have been dying here for years now and I am just looking for a healthy one at this point. I wish they would release a lot more of those predator wasps to eradicate this damned insect.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Al_Smith

Believe it or not the ash will probably make a come back .I've lost track of how many I had to fall .Kept the saw logs and processed the firewood .
With the removal of these dead trees I literally have hundreds and hundreds of ash saplings that have sprouted because the sun light can reach the ground .
Having said that even if they return it will be well  over 100 years before anybody sees those 100 foot 30 to 36" in diameter ash trees again .What they do for baseball bats until then I haven't a clue .Maybe the crack of the ash will be replaced with the bonk of aluminum  but it won't be the same . :(

SwampDonkey

Around here ash grows like weeds. Arthur knocked down some big overstory aspen along the road that grow on old farm ground. Now that those aspens are gone from the canopy, the ash is growing like dog hair in the new light. We do have confirmed ash borer in northern New Brunswick and Maine now, so it will likely continue south. But at least those small seedlings and whips are not big enough for bug homes. So maybe they will just move through like budworm for 3-5 years and not return in numbers for 2 or 3 decades or never. Well, one can hope. ;)



"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

runmca

Quote from: Al_Smith on October 20, 2018, 09:28:45 AM
What they do for baseball bats until then I haven't a clue .Maybe the crack of the ash will be replaced with the bonk of aluminum  but it won't be the same . :(
Here's an interesting article...maple? - https://deadspin.com/how-maple-bats-kicked-ash-and-conquered-baseball-1828559282

SwampDonkey

I've always liked maple axe handles to, over ash. I've ignored the experts and found often stuff works better if you don't know what you're suppose to. :D They don't bust a crack along the pore grain. In fact never split one yet. But yeah, they get chewed up like any wood around the collar of the axe, but still not as fast because the grain is closed. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Al_Smith

Good old hickory probably makes the best axe handles .I don't think however it makes the best ball bats.
They claim the EAB invasions can be tracked to an Asian automotive  parts plant near Detroit from packing cases made in the Pacific rim.From there it propagated .It was said the ash made up about 20 percent of the trees in Ohio and most likely killed all of them over about 3 inches in diameter.

In addition to the saplings I have some that propagated from the roots of large ash that were about 100 feet tall .These are know 12-15 feet tall,doing well but most likely will fail once and if they gain any size .They may get large enough to have seeds and replant the stock or they might not .Somebody will know in maybe 30 years .At 70 years old now it's not likely that I will .

SwampDonkey

Could be, but no hickory in sight here of 100's of miles. ;) I know Roy Underhill said fast grown hickory was better than slow grown, more dense closed grain latewood in fast grown hickory.  :)

Down in southern Maine where Ray (TheCFarm) is at, his one hickory he claimed was a transplant. Never seen any others in his area.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

brianJ

To me it seems easy splitting wood like ash would not make a good handle.   On the other hand that twisted grain of elm seems to me just the ticket.   That is guys like me with bad aim.

Al_Smith

Ash has been used for handles for years as has hickory .I suppose historically it just came down to what was growing in the area as to what was used . Ash has a very low moisture content and air dries rapidly.Green cut it spits easily but once it's dry that changes,it gets hard as a rock .Dry to can't hardly drive a nail in the lumber .
Unlike maple or hickory which can't take weather it holds up fairly well .They used to call ash the poor mans oak.Works easily and takes stain well,looks good when it's finished .
Very good fire wood .It will burn even green cut,try that with oak .I enjoy doing wood working projects with it myself .
I can remember as a youngster growing up in the eastern corn belt before gravity wagons were even thought of .The flat bed wagons either used oak or ash for the floors and more often than not ash for the side boards  .The ash was a little lighter than oak,almost as strong and much easier to handle .As it was those same wagons were used to handle hay as well as grain .

Al_Smith

I have no idea what they used elm for as the Dutch elm about wiped it out during the early 60's .My dad used to say one use was wagon tongues because it would bend like a noodle if you backed over it with a tractor .Something like that would break were it oak .Not very good fire wood can't hardly split it .
They say loading planks but that's almost moot because you can't find any logs large enough to saw any out these days .

SwampDonkey

Yes, I have worked a lot of ash. Even bent a bunch in a steam chest for sleds. When dry, it will make a shop planer moan, but come out the other end with a glassy shine. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Al_Smith

 :D Planer,yes .I've got a 12.5 " Dewalt which does a nice job it just takes a lot of passes to get it done .I'll have to say an ash plank does make it sing .It really sings if it hits a knot . :D

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