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Meadwestvaco land buyout....

Started by Thehardway, February 18, 2014, 10:30:27 PM

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Thehardway

Just wondering if any of you guys know much about the plum creek mwv deal.  My land backs up to 300ac. Of mwv land.  In the past it has been leased to a hunt club.  Will new ownership continue with leasing or will it end?  Was releived to hear it was not sold to a developer and ot will stay timberland a while longer.
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treeslayer2003

I did hear a rumor they were buying something in the mid atlantic. were are you in va.?

Woodsavage

In the Lake States Plum Creek are absolute butchers. They took hardwood stands that had been manicured for 60-70 years and did 3 or 4 "select" cuts in 10 years, then did a final cut and clearcut the whole works. They are very poor stewards of the earth imho.

Jason_AliceMae Farms

I don't have any info on their land buyout but I do know that they are reducing their salaried workforce at the Richmond office alone by roughly 250 people by then end of the first quarter.  With selling that land and the workforce reduction I wonder what their plans are.
Watching over 90 acres of the earth with 50 acres being forest.

Someday I would like to be able to say that I left thes 90 acres healthier than when I started watching over them.

Black_Bear

Quote from: Woodsavage on February 19, 2014, 09:49:36 AM
In the Lake States Plum Creek are absolute butchers. They took hardwood stands that had been manicured for 60-70 years and did 3 or 4 "select" cuts in 10 years, then did a final cut and clearcut the whole works. They are very poor stewards of the earth imho.

Sounds like typical industrial forestry silviculture to me. How many times are they supposed to enter the stands before a final cut is performed? Your opinion doesn't take into account what PC's overall management plan calls for. It merely describes the majority opinion of clearcuts, which can be ugly, but in the long-term may be a beneficial cut, silviculturally speaking. Just trying to give another perspective, and I can understand how you are feeling.

clww

Westvaco has been BIG in our area in the mountains of VA for decades. If it's paper, there's a good chance they made it.
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Wallys World

About 3 months ago they sold what was called Westvaco Nature Trail across the road from our place. I think it was around 150 -200 acres. New owner closed the trail and parking lot, don't know what will happen to it.
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1270d

Quote from: Woodsavage on February 19, 2014, 09:49:36 AM
In the Lake States Plum Creek are absolute butchers. They took hardwood stands that had been manicured for 60-70 years and did 3 or 4 "select" cuts in 10 years, then did a final cut and clearcut the whole works. They are very poor stewards of the earth imho.

It is their land, to do with as they please.

terry f

   Thats to bad, and I agree Woodsavage. In the ten years I've had mine, the industrial timberland around me has had three owners. I hope the new ones are better stewards than the last, all they knew was clearcut, but like said, it's their land.

ga jones

I agree with 1270d it's their land and if they want to make it parking lot that's their decision.
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Thehardway

When i bought my peice, the mwv land behind me was mostly a mature stand of loblolly. No hardwoods to speak of.  They clear cut it abouthe years ago. It will be a good 20 years befote it has anything worth transport cost.  They may send it to the nearby power plant as chips then or send it to the the LP osb mill.  Im just glad its not going to be chopped up into 1ac. Parcels and turned into mcmansions driving up our tax base.  I enjoy rural living here in va.  The way i catch it mwv is no longer in the timberland industry.  The deal was for all their timberland in the midatlantic.  Just dont know how plum creek veiws recreation/ hunting lease business.
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gwilson

  From what I have head Plumb Creek is at the forefront of good management and siviculture practices, being very involved and investing big money in Loblolly Pine research and genetics here in the southeast. :)

Keep in mind that clearcutting is a very beneficial forestry practice which involves the regeneration of a forest. Wildlife and the surrounding ecosystem can benefit greatly from a proper implemented clearcut and future management. A mature forest does not proved enough habitat variance to properly support a very diverse ecosystem, and many times a clearcut regrowth will have a much higher species diversification than a mature forest stand which has "stagnated" in growth. They would not be buying timberland unless they had a long range management plan and intended on being good stewards of that investment.

Here is the link to an article about the sale, mainly focused on South Carolina but mentions land in other states-
http://www.southernloggintimesmagazine.com/1-1-billion-deal-double-plum-creek-timberland-south-carolina/

chevytaHOE5674

UP here plum creek is cutting timber as fast as they can without a whole lot of regard for silviculture or the future. A little birdy told me that once everything of value is gone it will be up for sale.

Southside

In Maine Plumb Creek purchased a big piece in the Greenville area and put in all kinds of plans for resorts, developments, etc, it all got caught up in the politics and so far nothing has happened that I know of, but their plans are to develop a lot of it, I would think they are OK with hunting leases since it generates revenue.  Now if Roxanne Quimby were buying up the land I would be worried. 

Having worked in the woods in 3 distinct regions of the country I have to take exception to the clear cut / positive impact statement. Perhaps it does work well strictly from a forest management practice relating to income, but from what I have observed Virginia water quality would improve greatly if the clear cutting practices were curtailed.  Even the natural fires that used to happen in pre-colonial times did not create clear cuts. The other issue that concerns me is the mono culture pine that is planted into these choppings.  Mother nature does not create mono cultures for a reason, sooner or later some nasty bug will show up and create a massive problem in these areas.  Back in Oregon there is an area known as the "Red Dead"  300,000 acres - all beetle killed, just my opinion, and I hope I am wrong.   
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treeslayer2003

Quote from: Southside logger on February 19, 2014, 10:41:30 PM
In Maine Plumb Creek purchased a big piece in the Greenville area and put in all kinds of plans for resorts, developments, etc, it all got caught up in the politics and so far nothing has happened that I know of, but their plans are to develop a lot of it, I would think they are OK with hunting leases since it generates revenue.  Now if Roxanne Quimby were buying up the land I would be worried. 

Having worked in the woods in 3 distinct regions of the country I have to take exception to the clear cut / positive impact statement. Perhaps it does work well strictly from a forest management practice relating to income, but from what I have observed Virginia water quality would improve greatly if the clear cutting practices were curtailed.  Even the natural fires that used to happen in pre-colonial times did not create clear cuts. The other issue that concerns me is the mono culture pine that is planted into these choppings.  Mother nature does not create mono cultures for a reason, sooner or later some nasty bug will show up and create a massive problem in these areas.  Back in Oregon there is an area known as the "Red Dead"  300,000 acres - all beetle killed, just my opinion, and I hope I am wrong.
I agree with you. and since sweet gum is worth more than pine, why spray hardwood to plant pine?

Black_Bear

Quote from: Southside logger on February 19, 2014, 10:41:30 PM
Having worked in the woods in 3 distinct regions of the country I have to take exception to the clear cut / positive impact statement. Perhaps it does work well strictly from a forest management practice relating to income,

It works well for regeneration also. Apparently you weren't around long enough to watch some of the clearcuts regenerate. In the northeast we benefit from natural regeneration, with 10 year old regenerating stands containing 500-2000 saplings per acre. Most people take exception to clearcuts because they are ugly and the land becomes "scarred" or "butchered". Anytime any of you want to see the positive results of clearcutting, come north and I will take you on a tour. That land Plum Creek is cutting in the northeast will grow back. Honest.

chevytaHOE5674

Clear cutting is a great tool for certain species.

UP here for instance they are basically clear cutting northern hardwoods stands that have been nicely managed and thinned ever 10 or so years to the point where there isn't that much junky wood left so the thinnings now are harvesting lots and lots of nice wood which is great.

So they will clear these stands and then it will be 70+ years before another thinning can take place. At that time it will take many 10+ year thinning cycles to remove the junky wood, get good tree spacing, etc.

But if all a guy is planning on doing is selling the land off then why not take everything worth a penny off it....?? ha

Thehardway

I really didn't intend to start a clearcut vs. select cut debate here but it looks like I did.  Ooops...  From an objective viewpoint, where I have seen both ,some well and some not so well, I think you have to look at long term objectives and the primary species present.  If you have a 35 year old loblolly plantation that has been thinned and manged, as a lot of the southeast is, it doesn't do a whole lot of good to select cut it.  I do agree that clearcut can cause some severe erosion and water quality issues for several years after the cut takes place.  We are dealing with it in many of the lakes, rivers, and Cheseapeake Bay.   There should be better oversite on erosion control.  Buffer zones are not sufficient. Once regeneration starts, there is a lot of habitat created and diversity that did not exist with the previous monoculture.

In hardwood stands, select cut harvest makes a lot more sense.  Maturity times are much longer.

One must also take into account markets.  Different species are in higher demand at different times.  Wood products go in and out of favor and sometimes it makes sense to harvest before peak maturity to take advantage of a favorable market or if it may fall victim to blight or pest before the next peak cycle arrives.  I have seen first hand, "natures thinning" of prime appalachian cherry and Oak stands in Pennsylvania by means of gyspsy moth.  They would have been better off to clear cut much of it and at least make use of it.   Now it is rotting on the stump.  Same with Hemlock blight here in the southeast.  In the other hand Tulip Poplar in my opinion has benefited greatly from the thinning and the clear cut practices of the past and we are now seeing some magnificent poplar logs here in the mid-atlantic region.  Maple and beech are also pioneer hardwood species that can benefit from clear cutting other hardwood stands.

It is hard for many to understand that only a small percentage of the wood products market here is sawlogs.  Especially here, much of the thinning and low quality harvested wood product is going to chippers for paper, OSB and electrical generation plants.

This past year, a late frost on the white oaks has caused a huge loss of mast crop in the forest, wildlife has been grateful for diversity in the forest.  Had we only had oaks, many of the animals would have perished this year.

Plum creek claims they are not developers.  I guess only time will tell hear what "the rest of the story" is.
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