Backyard tree removal question(s)

[75Camaro4x4]

First off, new to the site. If this thread is in the wrong location, moderators, please move it.
Also, any responses/links/info are greatly appreciated, and I would like to thank you in advance. A little backstory first.

My wife's cousin (David) and I have been clearing up trees in the yard my wife and I will be moving into. 2 sides of the yard are neighbours fences, and the other 2 sides are power lines, which gives me a small window to work with. (Not as small as some of the youtube videos I have found, unfortunately I don't have the skills/resources/luck lol)

Every tree is 60ft+, and at least 24in diameter.

We have been either climbing the tree with spikes or a deer stand, tieing off at least half way with a 100ft 1/2in cotton rope, and tieing the other end to my 2001 Chevy 2500HD. David cuts the notch out of the tree, I drive/tighten the rope untill the tree leans in the direction we want it to fall, and he cuts it from the back untill I can pull it down. Also note, the rope would break before the tires would ever spin, but it has helped us get down 60 trees.

one of the problems: We had one hit a neighbours fence a couple weekends ago (It could've been alot worse, I am lucky to have a good neighbour, and I have already fixed the fence) Since then, A good friend gave me 2000 ft of 1/4in rope that a single run is stronger than my 1/2 cotton rope, but not strong enough for me to get the truck to spin tires. How many runs of that would it take for it to be safer? I could use all of it, but I imagine it could get very heavy and hard to put up.
Please note: I have also looked into Amsteelblue rope, but if the rope my friend gave me will work, that would be great as I am on a tight budget.

Another question: David and I got into a disagreement last weekend, and I don't think he will be helping me anymore. Not my fault, I think it was over lack of communication. Going to work on this. But, I have a 2,000 ib come-along. Would it be safe for me to use it on the tree by myself, tighten up, cut the notch, and tighten up/cut backside untill it falls?

Any more random advise would be greatly appreciated as well, and please note I am on a tight budget. But safety first, and if the budget gets in the way of me doing it safely (Well, as safely as cutting trees goes), then I will save untill I can do it safely. Forgive me if I am missing any info in this.

[Autocar]

Not trying to sound like a no it all but just reading your post about the removal of your yard trees run cold chills down my spin. House power lines and fence my advice is to hunt someone up in your community that has tree cutting and removal exsperance and see if there help you. Talk to the power company they may take them down. What ever you decide be very careful, sometimes saving a few bucks isn't the answers  :-\. Ive been in the logging business for over 40 years one thing Ive learned know your limits and walk away from questionable jobs. Good luck Bill

[75Camaro4x4]

I have talked to locals, and they said they would charge me 300 a tree. I have already talked to the powerline company, its not going to happen. There is room for every pine tree to fall into the yard, and out of 70, only 1 has fallen in the wrong direction. And It fell that way mostly due to carelessness, I didn't top that one off.

I get a cold chill the moment we have started cutting each one lol. Thanks for your reply!

-Devin

[beenthere]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Many, many threads here on proper technique for felling trees, and finding a nearby GOL (game of logging) class would be number one suggestion.
Having the pickup on a rope is not a bad idea, just not a good one to rely on whereas a good felling technique would cause the tree to fall without the pickup.

A correct notch, a proper hinge created, and the proper backcut with felling wedges placed so the tree doesn't sit back on your backcut, and directs the fall controlled by the hinge is the best way to go.

Learn the proper technique (lots of info around on this forum) and you can stay ahead of a disaster.

I would at least triple the 1/4" nylon rope for any pulling and then stay out of the path if it snaps and shoots back at the pickup or the direction of the tree (likely both).

Do us a favor, and fill out your bio in your profile.. helps to have an idea where the questions are coming from as to locality.

[CCC4]

When it comes to ropes, trucks and come-a-longs...I got nothing. However even though I have never used a come-a-long on a tree...I would think it would be safe to have someone with you, one doing the cutting, the other doing the ratcheting.

When you say 2ft., are you saying across the stump or are you running a tape measure around the tree and going by that? What I am getting at, is if it a legit 2ft dbh or so...I would have more than a 1/2 inch cotton rope I think...however I am no arborist and have no experience with pulling a tree over with ropes.

What is the size of yer yard? Do ya have any pics of this job? Even though I won't be much help...there are residential cutters on here that could probably help you out a bunch if they could see what you are up against.

[1270d]

I have helped pull quite a few yard trees with rope and a pickup.  Pretty good size ones some of them.  Be careful not to put too much tension before back cutting.  Ups the chance of a barber chair if you pull too hard too early.

[Seaman]

TREES??? I want to see a pic of the 75 Camero 4x4!

[tmarch]

IF you are gonna do this get a decent tow rope and at least 1 log chain.  Hook the tow rope to the pickup, next log chain, then a rope or cable that can be strung with a throw line or something to get it high enough to do some good.  Climbing a tree is with spikes or ladder is not necessary.  A nylon tow rope will have some stretch so you can basically use the pickup as a "deadman" until you've made you first chainsaw cuts and then inch it ahead as you add wedges and continue to cut.  The log chain is to protect damage from the towrope slapping into something if something goes wrong.

[BargeMonkey]

 Your 1/4 cotton is basically clothsline, at the minimum go to 3/4, but even that with 3 or 4 parts wont yank a tree back if it wants to go. Just be careful, it doesnt take much sometimes. Have you checked your homeowners insurance to see if your covered ? We shy away from tree work but get stuck doing it, ive got a piece of "spectra" or the "amsteel" equivalent, 4" line, about 90' long spliced eyes, rated for 65 tons and I still dont like yanking on it with the skidder winch. Your wasting you hard earned cash buying "amsteel", its real strong but 1 sharp edge or abrasive spot and your going to cry.

[thenorthman]

Get yourself some 5/8 or 3/4 nylon rope, available at any hardware store, make up with this david dude or find some other sucker to help.

buy some wedges,

learn to directionally fall timber, a rope and pulling helps, but its not fool proof, knowing what a tree does on the stump is half the battle.  Some times as I'm sure you've discovered ropes break, then people sometimes get killed... a wedge in the back cut prevents the tree from tipping backwards and possibly severing the hold wood (this is bad)...

Also I've found that putting just a little bit of tension on the pull rope before making the back cut seems to help, most times the trees will probably go the way you face them, the rope is meant for insurance more than anything else.

madsens/bailey's has a rope type come-a-long that can use any length of rope, someday I'll own one, I've used a come-a-long more then a few times to help with some of the more sketchy trees I get stuck with, it would be nice to have more than 6 feet of pull, I can pull that much slack out of a 100' nylon rope myself.

Also a snatch block or two is well worth the money, they allow you to double your pulling power as well as redirect the pull direction, as well as keeping the pull more of a downward angle on the 4xkamaro.  If you find yourself pulling bigger trees you may find yourself staring at the sky more often then not.

If you want more strength for far less money then the amsteel, just go with cable, 3/8 should do ya, I regularly use 1/2 on some pretty big trees, some leaning very hard the wrong way, I've only broke the one cable doing this and it was more of a faulty rigging cutting the line issue than anything, while I've snapped many a rope.  Just can't put knots in cable.

To reiterate, get felling wedges and use them, learn to directionaly fall, get a bigger rope.

[Southside]

First, welcome to the forum and by all means don't be bashful to ask questions and get involved in discussions.

There is a lot of good advice here.  Fill out your profile, with any luck there may be a member close to you who has experience and would be willing to come over and at least take a look.

I hear you with what you are doing, but honestly - reading about it made the hair on the back of my neck stand up.  A 24" diameter tree has a lot of weight to it, probably more than your pickup, and it has the advantage of leverage.  Doing it alone, up in a tree, if one thing goes wrong you have very few if any options, every member on here has had a tree fall the wrong way, sometimes the wind picks up, sometimes you mis-read the lean, some trees that look solid have a big hole in the middle and will act differently than you think they may, you can cut just a bit too much of your holding wood and cause one to twist - plenty of bad options.  Somebody who is clueless could even wander into your drop zone from the sounds of it. 

This spring I watched a professional trimming crew drop a big poplar limb onto a 3 phase transmission line, using a pull rope and working from a  bucket truck, these were experienced guys.  I was about 1000' feet away and when the sections of the line burnt through the tree and began to fall the whip from the tension in the lines caused sections "up stream" to go down, I ran for all I was worth and was pretty sure I was about to loose my pickup which was parked at the edge of the line.

Seriously, if nothing else get somebody over there who has done this and can at least look things over.  I work alone in the woods, but I evaluate my risk and there are some things that are just not worth the risk. 

[75Camaro4x4]

Thanks everyone for the info so far, I will reply individually.

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Many, many threads here on proper technique for felling trees, and finding a nearby GOL (game of logging) class would be number one suggestion.
Having the pickup on a rope is not a bad idea, just not a good one to rely on whereas a good felling technique would cause the tree to fall without the pickup.

A correct notch, a proper hinge created, and the proper backcut with felling wedges placed so the tree doesn't sit back on your backcut, and directs the fall controlled by the hinge is the best way to go.

Learn the proper technique (lots of info around on this forum) and you can stay ahead of a disaster.

I would at least triple the 1/4" nylon rope for any pulling and then stay out of the path if it snaps and shoots back at the pickup or the direction of the tree (likely both).

Do us a favor, and fill out your bio in your profile.. helps to have an idea where the questions are coming from as to locality.

I filled out my bio I like the sound of trippling it. We doubled it once with a weaker rope and it pulled pretty well. I tried to find a GOL nearby, not much luck. I will search later on, maybe there is a list of them to scroll through?

I think I have a pretty good notch haha, I will do some looking on this site. Are there different types for different situations?

I am not sure what a felling wedge is either. I will look it up on this site tonight after work.

[75Camaro4x4]

When it comes to ropes, trucks and come-a-longs...I got nothing. However even though I have never used a come-a-long on a tree...I would think it would be safe to have someone with you, one doing the cutting, the other doing the ratcheting.

When you say 2ft., are you saying across the stump or are you running a tape measure around the tree and going by that? What I am getting at, is if it a legit 2ft dbh or so...I would have more than a 1/2 inch cotton rope I think...however I am no arborist and have no experience with pulling a tree over with ropes.

What is the size of yer yard? Do ya have any pics of this job? Even though I won't be much help...there are residential cutters on here that could probably help you out a bunch if they could see what you are up against.

Of the 30 trees, 12 are very skinny and easy. I could probably push them by hand. 13 are 2ft true diameter, as in the stumps are 2 ft side to side, 6.3 circumference. and 5 have 3 ft diameters. They will be tough. All trees are pine, and top heavy.

I will post pictures of what I have tonight,if I have time after a meeting, but I can get more this weekend. I am not currently living there, just getting ready to move. The yard is about an acre (Square yard) and what is left of the trees is in the corner.

[75Camaro4x4]

I have helped pull quite a few yard trees with rope and a pickup.  Pretty good size ones some of them.  Be careful not to put too much tension before back cutting.  Ups the chance of a barber chair if you pull too hard too early.

Glad I am not the only one haha. Barber chair. Is this a term I am not aware of, or is it a metaphor?

[75Camaro4x4]

Your 1/4 cotton is basically clothsline, at the minimum go to 3/4, but even that with 3 or 4 parts wont yank a tree back if it wants to go. Just be careful, it doesnt take much sometimes. Have you checked your homeowners insurance to see if your covered ? We shy away from tree work but get stuck doing it, ive got a piece of "spectra" or the "amsteel" equivalent, 4" line, about 90' long spliced eyes, rated for 65 tons and I still dont like yanking on it with the skidder winch. Your wasting you hard earned cash buying "amsteel", its real strong but 1 sharp edge or abrasive spot and your going to cry.

The cotton is 1/2, the nylon is 1/4. I'd certainly agree that the 1/2in cotton is not enough. I just got homeowners insurance after I hit a neighbours yard. According to them, I will be covered if another incident occurs. Thanks for the info on amsteel, I will not buy it then.

[75Camaro4x4]

TREES??? I want to see a pic of the 75 Camero 4x4!

Lol. It's still in the very early stages. I was given a rusty, very rusty, 1975 Camaro for a graduation present. At the moment, it is in the process of being cut up up. It will wait till I am done with trees, and build my garage. Currently working in an old shed, and I don't trust my hobart mig welder or angle grinders in there.

[75Camaro4x4]

Get yourself some 5/8 or 3/4 nylon rope, available at any hardware store, make up with this david dude or find some other sucker to help.

buy some wedges,

learn to directionally fall timber, a rope and pulling helps, but its not fool proof, knowing what a tree does on the stump is half the battle.  Some times as I'm sure you've discovered ropes break, then people sometimes get killed... a wedge in the back cut prevents the tree from tipping backwards and possibly severing the hold wood (this is bad)...

Also I've found that putting just a little bit of tension on the pull rope before making the back cut seems to help, most times the trees will probably go the way you face them, the rope is meant for insurance more than anything else.

madsens/bailey's has a rope type come-a-long that can use any length of rope, someday I'll own one, I've used a come-a-long more then a few times to help with some of the more sketchy trees I get stuck with, it would be nice to have more than 6 feet of pull, I can pull that much slack out of a 100' nylon rope myself.

Also a snatch block or two is well worth the money, they allow you to double your pulling power as well as redirect the pull direction, as well as keeping the pull more of a downward angle on the 4xkamaro.  If you find yourself pulling bigger trees you may find yourself staring at the sky more often then not.

If you want more strength for far less money then the amsteel, just go with cable, 3/8 should do ya, I regularly use 1/2 on some pretty big trees, some leaning very hard the wrong way, I've only broke the one cable doing this and it was more of a faulty rigging cutting the line issue than anything, while I've snapped many a rope.  Just can't put knots in cable.

To reiterate, get felling wedges and use them, learn to directionaly fall, get a bigger rope.

Awesome info, I will look deeper into all of that tonight. It sounds like you are saying do the back cut first, insert a wedge, and then take a wedge out from the other side? I normally do that backwords. Forgive me if I misread.

[75Camaro4x4]

First, welcome to the forum and by all means don't be bashful to ask questions and get involved in discussions.

There is a lot of good advice here.  Fill out your profile, with any luck there may be a member close to you who has experience and would be willing to come over and at least take a look.

I hear you with what you are doing, but honestly - reading about it made the hair on the back of my neck stand up.  A 24" diameter tree has a lot of weight to it, probably more than your pickup, and it has the advantage of leverage.  Doing it alone, up in a tree, if one thing goes wrong you have very few if any options, every member on here has had a tree fall the wrong way, sometimes the wind picks up, sometimes you mis-read the lean, some trees that look solid have a big hole in the middle and will act differently than you think they may, you can cut just a bit too much of your holding wood and cause one to twist - plenty of bad options.  Somebody who is clueless could even wander into your drop zone from the sounds of it. 

This spring I watched a professional trimming crew drop a big poplar limb onto a 3 phase transmission line, using a pull rope and working from a  bucket truck, these were experienced guys.  I was about 1000' feet away and when the sections of the line burnt through the tree and began to fall the whip from the tension in the lines caused sections "up stream" to go down, I ran for all I was worth and was pretty sure I was about to loose my pickup which was parked at the edge of the line.

Seriously, if nothing else get somebody over there who has done this and can at least look things over.  I work alone in the woods, but I evaluate my risk and there are some things that are just not worth the risk.

Thanks! They do have alot of weight to them for sure... One tree was 3 1/2 ft diameter and I had to cut it into 15ft sections.

[scsmith42]

Hi Devin, welcome to the FF. I am about an hour west of you on the S side of Raleigh.

Lots of good advice from the pros in this thread (which I am not).

The only thing that I will add is that you don't need a ton of tension on the rope. All that you are trying to do is have enough tension to help the top/log fall in the direction that you want it to go.  Unless the tree is leaning in the wrong direction or there is a strong crosswind, you only need a few hundred pounds of force, if that much.

A barber chair up in the air while you are roped to the trunk would not be a fun experience....

[75Camaro4x4]

Hi Devin, welcome to the FF. I am about an hour west of you on the S side of Raleigh.

Lots of good advice from the pros in this thread (which I am not).

The only thing that I will add is that you don't need a ton of tension on the rope. All that you are trying to do is have enough tension to help the top/log fall in the direction that you want it to go.  Unless the tree is leaning in the wrong direction or there is a strong crosswind, you only need a few hundred pounds of force, if that much.

A barber chair up in the air while you are roped to the trunk would not be a fun experience....

There are only 2 trees leaning hard in the wrong direction. Those will be the last I tackle, and I have to do some hard reasearch on both of them lol.

By barber chair. Do y'all mean them spinning?

[Southside]

A barber chair is when the section you have cut off basically splits and peels leaving a sharp, vertical section of wood standing in place.  It can be a foot tall or 5 feet tall, it can come from the wedge face of the tree or from the middle of it, when done the stump will resemble a wooden chair with a straight back, thus the name.  The problem is you loose all control of a tree when this happens, it goes wherever it wants to go, and sometimes that means straight up and over the chair, and back at you.  If you are in the tree with no place to go that can be fatal, a friends dad was killed by a chair about 20 years back when it struck him in the chest and pinned him to another tree. 

You definitely did not understand thenorthman correctly, do not try what you think he said, he was saying to place a wedge into the backcut to prevent it from pinching your bar as you are making the back cut.   I am by no means jumping on you here or trying to put words in other guys mouths, but please get some professional help with this before you get hurt or worse. 

It sounds like you have natural skill and a knack for this type of work, you just need some experience to keep you on the right track, there is money to be made in arborist work for sure.

[beenthere]

"barber chair" is when falling a leaning tree with the lean (posting after southside logger said it well).
Making the notch cut first, then when making the backcut the tree splits up the middle as the holding wood is already cut. The backside of the tree can come up very fast, sometimes taking the faller out with an upper cut to the chin.
That lean leads to a different approach to the felling. It is suggested to make a bore cut after the notch cut, to form the hinge wood. Then cutting out towards the back. Leaves the backcut to last, when the tree will fall quickly but not until you want it to.

Considerable amount of stuff for you to learn, and tough to try to explain every situation in a few words.

Another thread that discusses (sometimes inappropriately for this forum) "barber chair" starts off with a good video which shows the use of the small wedges being discussed here. Even large trees have a place for a small plastic wedge (seen on several of the trees being cut) or two, and the faller carries several with him on his belt. I'd suggest looking at this video, as well as do a lot of searching on this forum for other good primers on felling trees.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,74886.0.html

[75Camaro4x4]

Thank y'all for clearing up my misunderstanding haha! and for the info. I was kind of questioning that. It didn't quite sound right.

The barber chair makes sense now.

I am sure I have had a lot of luck so far, but the reason I made this thread is because I know, that I do not know enough. I figured it is best to ask the professionals before continueing further.
I did read through a few threads, but I was having trouble finding what I was looking for. I will view everything posted, as well as do some more searching tonight/tomorrow night.

[beenthere]

75
Check out this thread that is a series of very good graphics that cover many of the variables one might encounter (by member John Vander)

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,69508.0.html

[NWP]

You should also look up barber chairs on YouTube to see how fast things can go wrong. I searched barber chair tree and found a lot of videos