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Wood Powered Tractor

Started by Ron57, April 06, 2012, 08:38:26 PM

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Ron57

  Hi Jeff, Paul and everyone I finally finished the tractor woodgas conversion I had started last fall and it runs really good and will be a lot of help around the shop. With gasoline over $4.00 gal my 16 yr old son wants to drive it to school!! The tractoir seems to have a lot of power and it will move at a pretty good clip down the road. 8) I think I may be able to talk my wife to use it to get groceries every week  ;D Thanks,   8) Ron L

  

  

  

  

 

levans

You think I could build one of those to run my LT40 mill

Paul_H

Ron,
Looks great! Can you give us more detail on the gasifier and the engine,such as is it a MEN and is the engine a diesel converted to spark ignition?
I'm itching to go get my truck in Pemberton and probably will in the next month.It's been two years since we moved and we're starting to settle in.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Okrafarmer

nice job. Do you have a counterweight on the other side of the tractor?
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Ron57

   The tractor is an 1978 International 574 it has a 201 cid gasoline engine. The gasifier is a MEN style like yours but I made it in three parts that are connected by flanges so I am able to service it and get to the grate to clean or repair it. I havnt advanced the timing yet.Opposit side of the gasifier is the filter it has fiberglass batting stuffed in it,my truck has almost 10,000 miles on wood now but its top speed is only 60 mph and when I pull a trailer it is even less I have tried different things to make it go faster but I think that is about the limit, if it was a newer computerized engine it may do better or a larger displacement. One more thing I am going to try is building a Wayne Keith style gasifier which is a stratified downdraft with nozzles and tons of heat reclaiming.
As far as running a sawmill I dont know it probably has enough horsepower but getting it to run smooth enougt to run a generator and keep the rpms constant enough I dont know.

Okrafarmer

This guy got his generator going on wood gas. I have met him, he lives not so far from here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYGKn12Weu4

He has a host of gassifier videos up there.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Ron57

 This guy has a really nice set up. Do you know if he run it regularly or not?
Here are a few pictures of the tractors gasifier and the hearth. I had a problem getting it to flare today I think the rods for the grate may be a little close together and they are holding the ash on top of the grate, causing it to plug.


  

  

  

 

Paul_H

Ron,

did you try the modified MEN hearth that was a little deeper like a firetube?
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Okrafarmer

I'm not sure how much he uses it. I don't know him all that well, but I have watched a lot of his videos in the last couple years, but not so much in the last few months.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Ron57

  Hi Paul; was there any plans for a  deeper hearth from MEN. The frying pan only left less than 2" of reduction area. The one I built for my pickup was 6" deep and cone shaped it  still had good flow through even with out using any shaker.I copied it for the tractor with a little smaller restriction. I was told that the deeper the better as long as you can keep the grate from plugging up. Here is a pic of the one in the truck the tractor is like it only w/o the pan.


 

Ron57

  Hi Group ,
  Have been using the tractor quite a bit lately. It is running good. It was having a few problems with ash building up on the grate and bridging in the fuel hopper so i made a couple of changes and havnt had any problems since.
  Yesterday I tilled the garden and graded the pallet shop yard and ran it for about 4hrs w/o any problems, it ran better than it ever has.  Three weeks ago we drove it in the Nappanee Apple Festivaland was invited to drive my truck in the Antique Tractor and farm Equippment show it was a lot of fun.

  

  

  

  

  

 

thecfarm

Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Paul_H

Thanks for the pics Ron,the tractor is sounding really good.What mods did you make to the grate to fix the bridging?
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Ron57

 The tractor was running very poorly so I took the gasifier off and was going to recycle parts into a Wayne Keith unit, when I opened it up the reduction area  was packed tight with ash I dont know how it ran at all!!  To fix the ash build up I took two of the rods out of the grate and bent the others over to even the spacing.It ran four hours yesterday and a couple the day before and I have more tilling to do tonight. If this problem continues I may build a hanging grate so it can move around more.
  To fix the bridging I processed the chunks smaller and they seem to tumble into the grate better havnt had any problem there yet. Doing this may give the tractor more power also, by making more reaction area and havnt seen any tars either.

Paul_H

Sounds good,Ron.
The style that Werner built that was fashioned after the style of the Swedish gasifiers from the 1940's had the cone above a grate,not the grate fixed to the bottom of the cone but I've seen firetubes like the type you built and they seem to work well too.
I like the cooler you built on the front.Can you share any closeup pics or info?
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Ron57

  My brother in law made the cooler he did a lot better welding than I could have done. The top and bottom rails are 2.5 " and the verticle pipe is 2" aluminized exhaust pipe.The gas is cool going in to the carb but I didnt add any instruments to measure the temp or vacuum so I dont know the actual temp.The gas comes in the upper right side and goes  down and up each pipe.There is a drain in the center and one on each end into the reservoir on the bottom.
When we put it on the front I was concerned about it overheating the cooling system but it still run in the center of the coolant temp gauge.
The cooler is bolted into the counter weight mounting holes in the front

  

  

 

Paul_H

Thanks for the pics and info.Do you get much condensate in the bottom after a long run?

I was heading to the Steam show in Westwold today and run into a wall of rain so I turned around but on the way home saw a 1982 Ford F100 so I called and asked if it had a 300 six in it.It did and also a 4 spd so $600 later,I've got a better candidate for a woodgas driver sitting in the driveway.

Another question,is your reduction tube made of stainless?
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Ron57

  I got 3/4 quart of condensate from the cooler and about a quart from the monorator after about an hour run last night. The wood I run is very dry so it seems to work pretty good.The restriction ,reduction cone and grate are all stainless, it holds up a lot better than the cast iron. If you are going to run the old grate after setting a while make sure the welds holding the frying pans together havnt cracked I had the two pans separate this is not a good thing. :(
I think you will like the 300 six in your new truck, it will work at least as good as the 302.Is the !st gear a creeper gear? I am curious how fast you will be able to get it to run being a lighter truck.I can pull a small trailer but it only goes 50-55 unless I add a little gasoline but with out a trailer it runs 60-65mph, but I am still experimenting how to make it go faster,I am trying to figure out a way to raise the nozzles about an inch and see how it affects the gasification it may work tar free since I run really dry wood.
  Good luck with your truck. Ron L

mad murdock

Great job Ron on the wood gas modified tractor.  Thanks for posting your details and pics.  I have a couple operational questions for you: 1. Can you give some numbers associated with typical startup time, and process for a given ambient temperature? (system cold). 2.what kind of fuel consumption rate do you figure you have with the tractor? (lbs of wood per hour of use).
Thanks
Mad Murdock
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Ron57

Hi mad murdock;I finally ran a whole batch through the tractor and it ran straight for about 3.5 hours. The tractor was running this PTO generator with a light load at the 1800RPMs .The run took 7-5gal buckets of chunks they weigh about 16lbs each.
  The unit ran straight for the 3.5hours I didnt watch it the whole time but one time I heard the tractor cough, it probable was getting used to the taste of the wood gas :), actually it probable had a small bridge in the fuel yet it ran well considering it being stationary and not having any vibration device or shaker.
  I wanted to keep the gasifier simple so I didnt install any instrumentation, vacuum gauges or thermocouples, these would make it easier to see what is actually happening and make trouble sooting easier but I have been playing with woodgas enough that I can tell generally what is going on.
  I timed the start-up time on the last run and from the lighting till flaring it was less that 5 min.
I am still playing with the PTO generator,trying to find how large of a  motor it will start and run, it started a 10 hp 3-phase easily,but when I tried a 25hp motor it had a time keeping it running, talking to an electrician he said it shoulld strart up to 40 hp if the 40kw rating was actual. The pto is only rated for 50hp so the tractor probably cannot produce the full rating any way.

  

  

  

  

  

 

mad murdock

Ron, thanks for posting the info/pics and answers to my questions. That is some pretty good comparative info. One can almost calculate ( in ballpark figures) specific fuel consumption for your tractor setup wood vs petrol, which for my mind is getting to brass tacks. I am going to take some time and digest your numbers and see if/how I might convert my '71 international 1110 p/u to a wood gasser.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Okrafarmer

Silly question-- all the wood burners I have seen or seen pictures of were a carburetor engine with spark plugs. Would it be categorically possible, or impossible, practical, or impractical, for a diesel engine to run on wood gas?
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

mad murdock

From a theoretical perspective Okra, I don't see why a diesel would not run on wood gas.  The question I would seek to answer (and the reason I was asking Ron for more technical details), is the comparison of BTU capacity of diesel(petrol) vs a similar quantity of wood converted to wood gas, that is some of the numbers I am going to research and compare as I contemplate incorporating a converter or 2 for my needs here. One thing I have no shortage of on my treefarm is biomass!
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Okrafarmer

I have heard of diesels running on propane, or maybe it was natural gas, so was wondering why a gaseous substance such as wood gas might not work. It may be about btu's, or the ability to get it through the diesel's injectors. They may need to be modified, not sure.

Another question is, rather than have the heavy, bulky wood burner mounted on the truck or tractor, what about possibly burning the wood in a stationary unit and collecting and compressing the gas into a pressurized tank, like those used for propane? Then you would just have to fill the vehicle's "gas" tank, and not have to carry the burner around. Just thinking out loud.  :P
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Gary_C

Quote from: Okrafarmer on November 04, 2012, 09:04:17 AM
Silly question-- all the wood burners I have seen or seen pictures of were a carburetor engine with spark plugs. Would it be categorically possible, or impossible, practical, or impractical, for a diesel engine to run on wood gas?

Compression Ignition or diesel engines need a carefully timed injection of fuel at exactly the right time in the compression stroke of the cylinder. If the fuel was always present as a gas in the cylinder, it would start burning when the compressed mixture reached the autoignition temperature.

Otherwise if the fuel could be liquified and sent thru the injectors the timing could be changed to match the fuel you are providing. And the fuel delivery has to be uniform to each cylinder or the engine may not last very long.

And then again, the fuel has to also be a lubricant for the injection system.

So the answer is, probably not, unless you could overcome some problems.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Ianab

QuoteAnother question is, rather than have the heavy, bulky wood burner mounted on the truck or tractor, what about possibly burning the wood in a stationary unit and collecting and compressing the gas into a pressurized tank, like those used for propane? Then you would just have to fill the vehicle's "gas" tank, and not have to carry the burner around. Just thinking out loud.

Cost of the compressor.

Some local guys were investigating using methane from animal waste, compressing that and running vehicles. But compressed nat gas need to be really high pressure, meaning an expensive compressor, and that made the whole thing impractical.

If you are burning the gas at only a little more than atmospheric pressure then it's practical.

You can store the gas in a large upside down tank, using water as a seal, but it's at low pressure, means it needs to be a BIG tank. Useful for heating a building, but not exactly portable.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Ron57

 The diesel engine would be more efficient with a higher compression, but you have to add spark plugs for ignition or run a small amount of fuel to ignite the woodgas. I had an old detroit 6-71 I ran for a short time just to see if it would work, I started the engine on diesel and set it to idle, then added the woodgas through the intake and used a 4" dust collection gate to regulate the woodgas adding more it would speed up to pto speed. it was on a scragg sawmill ,. the gasifier wasnt sized right I knew it but it ran smoothly and sawed about a dozen logs.
I know the newer more efficient diesels are not as forgiving, and over an extended time may be negatively affected by the soot but this ran well when it I only ran it for a little over an hour.
   The gasifier wasnt sized right it was the one off my pickup I thought it might work but at the time wasnt thinking engine was a two cycle so the gasifier was only half the size it needed to be  >:( Later I sold the detroit to a sawmiller and he is still running it tioday :)

Ron57

 

 
  This is the diesel I ran on woodgas the power was wimpy but the gasifier was way undersized.

Paul_H

Quote from: Okrafarmer on November 04, 2012, 10:51:46 PM
Another question is, rather than have the heavy, bulky wood burner mounted on the truck or tractor, what about possibly burning the wood in a stationary unit and collecting and compressing the gas into a pressurized tank, like those used for propane?

This question is anwered on the FAQ page of woodgas.net along with other questions.

http://www.woodgas.net/faq.html

As Ron stated,diesels will run on woodgas but needs some diesel fuel as well.

Johan Linnel converted a perkins diesel over to 100% woodgas by adding a spark ignition and farmed a crop of potatoes with the tractor.

http://www.vedbil.se/dagbok/mera/19e.shtml
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Ron57

  Ronda took a couple of pictures of my tractor plowing snow. I had it running between1-2 hrs this is the coldest I have ran a gasifier for any amount of time and it worked pretty good. I was concerned with the condensate freezing and causing problems in the cooler and condensate traps. The temp was still in the lower 20s for some of you this is  still warm this time of the year. It ran well and make the job a lot more comfortable with the heat coming off the gasifier :).

  

  

 

Paul_H

Looking good Ron!
Is that a condensate collection tank from a monorator I see in the bottom pic?
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Ron57

  Yes, it was an old fire extinguisher, it sticks out too far I keep bumping things when I drive past.

Paul_H

I was reading this thread on the drivingonwood site of a woodgas gathering hosted by Ron57 back in 2012.I wish I could have been there and it looked like a good bunch of woodgassers and their families.

Woodgas gathering

Good job Ron  :)
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Ron57

  Well it is winter again and we just got hammered with a quick snow storm. The power went out so I pulled the woodgas tractor out of the barn I have been wanting to give the pto generator a try any way.
The electric was out for 7 hours and I ran the woodgas tractor for 5 hours continuous and added wood chunks once , only 20 gal but it wasn't full when I started.The tractor will run 3.5 hours on a fillup of wood, I am glad I didn't have to burn gasoline
  It ran well except for a couple of hiccups, probably some bridging of the wood chunks.
  Thanks and Keep on Burning Wood!!!   Ron

  

  

 

Paul_H

Thanks Ron,that is really cool.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

OneWithWood

One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

r.man

Ron, you mentioned Napanee, is that the one in Ontario?
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

Paul_H

Ron is in Indiana

http://www.nappaneeapplefestival.org/

This link below is to a post in a thread on Driveonwood that features a large woodgas event that Ron and his family have hosted the last couple years.A lot of woodgassers attend with their tractors and vehicles of all shapes and sizes.

http://driveonwood.com/comment/13556#comment-13556
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

r.man

Thanks Paul, I should have remembered that, I have read one of those threads in the past. Got a bit excited when I thought that tractor might be within easy driving distance of me.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

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