The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Chainsaws => Topic started by: lxskllr on March 18, 2019, 03:52:12 PM

Title: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on March 18, 2019, 03:52:12 PM
Contemplating getting a clearing saw. Still cutting vines on the boss' farm, and the stickers are getting on my nerves. Been holding off cause I don't really need one for my stuff, and I like being "the guy with the chainsaw" which sometimes gets you fun work, as opposed to being "the guy with the clearing saw" which will never get you fun work. That's like being "the guy with the posthole diggers"  :^P


So... Are they pretty cool to have? I'd like something that can make quick easy work of stickers, and small saplings.  I've used weedeaters before, but nothing with a blade. Echo's 15% off day is coming near me at the beginning of April, and I'm thinking of their best unit...


SRM-410U Gas Grass and Weed Brushcutter | ECHO USA (https://www.echo-usa.com/Products/Brushcutters/SRM-410U)


It would take ~24 hours of working on the farm to pay it off, whereas using my chainsaws is just about all profit at this point, but absolutely no fun in the huge banks of stickers. I've been leaving them for the most part, only cutting into them so I can get to the bittersweet and other vines. Best case scenario, is I talk him into buying it himself, and I'll use it, but I'm just about at the point of getting it on my own so I can see things prettied up, instead of the rats nests of junk everywhere.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: sawguy21 on March 18, 2019, 04:05:48 PM
It is a great tool for it's intended use and is a lot easier and safer than a chainsaw. Do yourself a favor and get a good fitting harness that breathes, the strap that comes with a lot of them gets uncomfortable very quickly. Echo is a good brand and well priced but tends to come out of the box tuned for emissions rather than performance.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Air Lad on March 18, 2019, 04:18:43 PM
I have an ex/council 92 model Kawasaki 35cc
My wife picked it up for 30 bucks 6 years ago when we were on a small acerage
Wouldn't run properly until I put in an $18 carb kit
Mostly used for whipper snipping these days but man oh man did it make short work of our Lantana vines and long Blade grass.
You can get all types of cutting heads for different kinds of pest plants for these things and the handlebars mean you can swing side to side as you advance into the growth.
If you're going to spend a lot of time swinging it around you can get a brace that goes over both shoulders and clips the machine on to help you're back a bit.
 Cheers

Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: sawguy21 on March 18, 2019, 05:45:46 PM
He definitely wants the handle bars when running a clearing blade to control kick back.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on March 18, 2019, 05:47:17 PM
I'd go for that Echo if you're just cutting 1-2" stuff. If your cutting bigger stuff I don't think the handle bar and the attachment point are rugged enough. Personally, I would probably bust that saw in our thinning sites, we have a lot of 'oversize' stems. Bad enough I bust blade guards in maple clumps with my heavier saw. I got a bit of a break last year when the mill said not to cut the hardwood clumps. First time for anything. :D

I use a 57 CC Stihl for pre-comemrcial thinning. But if your not cutting a lot or in bigger stems, go for the echo. The tower for the handlebar is much more rugged on my Stihl.

Thinning is pretty fun in itself, I cut 70-100 acres of brush a year. But I also mark off work areas to. Working with a thinning crew. Straight out clearing is much faster, since your probably not leaving anything.

Echo makes good saws, they used to make a heavier pro model, but no more. Some fellas on the crew liked them. Best warranty, cheaper saw.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on March 18, 2019, 05:50:46 PM
Definitely want a 'forestry' harness with a pad and hook on it and handle bars on the saw for swinging. :)

No. Not a weed eater strap. Shops do sell a 'Universal' harness which is probably lots. My Husqvarna forestry harness is for heavy cutting. I just have not seen the one that comes on this saw.

This one should work fine.

Product and Equipment Accessories for ECHO units including Safety Accessories (https://www.echo-usa.com/Products/Accessories/Personal-Protection-Apparel/Harnesses/Brushcutter-Harness)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on March 18, 2019, 06:12:15 PM
1"-2" sounds about right. This isn't a professional gig, but I'd need a bit more than your homeowner weedeater. I still have my chainsaws for the bigger stuff. It's really the briars that are the thorn(hah!) in my side. I'm still mulling the options. My machete is free to run, but even with the big vines out of the way, it's a lot of machete work.


This all started late last year when I took an interest in dawn redwoods, and saw vines ruining the redwoods on the farm. I cleaned the vines off of them(with a machete and axe), and the boss said "I'm gonna be getting to that upper field next...". I cut the vines off the fence, broke down a maple and cherry snag, and kept on going. It's gotten personal now. Vines are enemy #1, and I want to see the farm cleaned up. He rents it to horse people, so I think I'm adding value making things look better, but at this point, I just want it to look nice, and the vines and stickers are a personal affront to me. The fact I get paid for it is almost secondary. The time I charge is arbitrary. I leave thousands of $ on the table every year, so it's hard to account for. One of the benefits(?) of working for a small company, but I gain freedom, and a clear conscience. My time is my own, and nobody says anything when I clear wood lines, and bill some proportion of time to the company. By my accounting, I've paid for a couple chainsaws, and had some fun cleaning things up. I'm hoping spring and the accompanying greening shows the results of my effort. I'm gonna be *really* disappointed if it looks like I was never there, and the vines take off again.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Drew62 on March 18, 2019, 07:11:15 PM
As ever,your looking for that optimum balance between power/weight.I'd say get a bit more power than you think you'll need-the machine will last longer and lead a less stressful life.Bike handles are a must with blades on board.Your looking for 4-point anti vibe-you should be vibed off from both the shaft+also the engine unit.Plenty of hanging options on the shaft+a full body harness should come as standard.The machine should have a straight solid shaft and a rugged bevel gear unit at the business end.Personally,I prefer to see the shaft with square profile at each end-some are splined and will wear badly with blade use.I'm not quite sure what you will ask of it but 40cc sounds about right.Above all sit it on you and make sure its ppossible to balance it well.A back heavy machine is  a BAD thing.Good luck with it!
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on March 18, 2019, 07:19:57 PM
What do you all think of that echo I linked? I chose that due to my experience with their chainsaws, and price. I'm assuming it'll be like their saws where you get really close to professional performance, at 50%-70% of the cost of the big guys. I have zero experience with this class of machine. I used a weedeater I fished from a dumpster for a brief period of time, and I used a Stihl something or other string trimmer on a friend's property, but I don't have any decent way to assess quality or capability. It's completely foreign to me.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Drew62 on March 18, 2019, 08:19:45 PM
Looking at that it seems ok,I note they are pretty coy on the a.v.Also the ad seems to imply the harness is optional.I would take a look at the stihl FS 240 c-e.Its lighter than the echo,38cc,1 point av.Frugal strato engine/elastostart,supplied with a pro harness/blade+a decent bump feed strimmer head.Money-wise a stihl dealer should match that price or nearly.Bear in mind a decent pro harness+a line head is worth say £65-75.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Drew62 on March 18, 2019, 08:34:59 PM
Just as an afterthought,neither the machine you linked or the stihl I mentioned is strictly a clearing saw.The stihl is their top-end brushcutter.The clearing saw would gain you 4 point a.v./a higher mounted handlebar/a bit more power,heavier bevel gears at the cutting head,more choice of mounting points on the shaft-on the other hand about 4lb more weight and a biggish jump with cost!I can only speak for the stihl,it doesnt lack for power and after being used to their 40/45cc clearing saws,the weight is sweet.The 4 point anti vibe is good on the bigger models if you're going for it for several hours though and it deffo helps with fatigue.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on March 18, 2019, 09:26:13 PM
Mulling it over, I still have a $120 left from my Filson gift certificate my boss got me for jul. I could get a tin cruiser for $350 minus $120, and just armor up to take on the briars with a chainsaw. I've kinda wanted the tin cruiser anyway, and that would keep me from becoming the clearing saw guy  :^D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: sawguy21 on March 18, 2019, 09:31:44 PM
The clearing saw will look very appealing after a day of doing that with a chainsaw. Believe me, I tried that. ::)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on March 18, 2019, 09:38:26 PM
Quote from: sawguy21 on March 18, 2019, 09:31:44 PM
The clearing saw will look very appealing after a day of doing that with a chainsaw. Believe me, I tried that. ::)
Yea, briars with a chainsaw sucks. My left arm is still scratched up from slashing through them last week. There's little more rage inducing than having little sticker branches stuck all over you, and trying to peel them off as they stick somewhere else  #$!@#%
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on March 19, 2019, 06:06:52 AM
Quote from: Drew62 on March 18, 2019, 08:19:45 PM
the ad seems to imply the harness is optional.
With some shops here we have to make sure we are getting the forestry harness, never used to be on the onus of the buyer, it was just default. Not anymore. Some shops will try and hand off the lightest harness they have for that model. A forestry harness up here is $290, a crap one is maybe $80. By the time you walk out of the shop, they have $1700 in their hands. Luckily I can claim Forestry Worker tax rebates. But I still gotta pay the $1700 months before. :D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on March 19, 2019, 06:30:22 AM
lxskllr ,

You know you want the clearing saw, listen to the scream in those nasty bushes. :D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: sawguy21 on March 19, 2019, 12:43:42 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Allar on March 19, 2019, 02:01:22 PM
I Have a few brushcutters. I use em for clearing brush around planted trees and also to clear roads in my forest.

Brushcutters are a godsent, i absolutely love the triangle blade, easy to sharpen and can be used to cut down some really thick trees with proper technique.


If you plan to use it in forest, 40cc to 45cc is the sweetspot imo.

I plan on getting another one soon, will most likely be an echo due to price difference.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on March 19, 2019, 04:20:30 PM
How do you deal with blades for these things? Are you expected to sharpen them, or are they considered disposable? This looks like the blade that comes with the unit I linked...


ECHO Trimmer and Brushcutter Accessories (https://www.echo-usa.com/Products/Accessories/Trimmer-and-Brushcutter-Accessories/Blades/80-Tooth-Brush-Blade)



That looks like it could be tedious/difficult to sharpen.


This blade is available, but it's a smaller diameter. Looks like it's sharpened with a chainsaw file?


https://www.echo-usa.com/Products/Accessories/Trimmer-and-Brushcutter-Accessories/Blades/22-Tooth-Clearing-Blade-(20mm-Arbor)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Air Lad on March 19, 2019, 04:39:59 PM
Second link failed but the first image looks just like a circular saw blade
It could be disposable if not too expensive
I have one like that and have never sharpened it because being so thin it still cuts well
I also have one that looks like a three way rideon mower blade
It is excellent in long grass but get's a bit savage on larger plants
You are bound to have fun with this new machine if you get it
Cheers
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on March 19, 2019, 05:51:03 PM
Not sure what happened to that 2nd link. I had a tab open for a couple days, maybe they changed the url. This was the second blade...


https://www.echo-usa.com/Products/Accessories/Trimmer-and-Brushcutter-Accessories/Blades/22-Tooth-Clearing-Blade-(20mm-Arbor)



Just saw the poor review. The guy said it dulls fast, but if it's just a matter of hitting it with a chainsaw file, I'm used to doing that.


edit:
Seems like the forum's trashing the url. Dunno...
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on March 19, 2019, 05:57:24 PM
These guys are using the 'shredder blade 320-2' on their FS560's and a lighter guard.

Shredder blade 320-2 - Special tool for strong undergrowth (https://www.stihl.com/STIHL-power-tools-A-great-range/Brushcutters-and-Clearing-saws/Cutting-tools-and-accessories/Cutting-tools/2292-63713/Shredder-blade-320-2.aspx)

Fs 560-550 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDRmaP7M6os)

Might be something to look into.

Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on March 19, 2019, 06:02:05 PM
Quote from: lxskllr on March 19, 2019, 05:51:03 PM
Not sure what happened to that 2nd link. I had a tab open for a couple days, maybe they changed the url. This was the second blade...


https://www.echo-usa.com/Products/Accessories/Trimmer-and-Brushcutter-Accessories/Blades/22-Tooth-Clearing-Blade-(20mm-Arbor)



Just saw the poor review. The guy said it dulls fast, but if it's just a matter of hitting it with a chainsaw file, I'm used to doing that.


edit:
Seems like the forum's trashing the url. Dunno...
We use a similar blade over here in New Brunswick, but it is called the Maxi blade. A bit different profile. All the blade brands are pretty much the same, out of Sweden except Stihl's are out of Japan. I think the Maxi's are hard to find in the US than the regular chisel tooth in your link. They are quick to file with a file guide. Just stay out of the mud and rocks and fences. Fences are nasty on blades. :D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Drew62 on March 19, 2019, 06:54:08 PM
To the o.p.-now look,your being difficult here,trust me,you NEED  a big clearing saw,frankly you're looking at the ultimate flexible powerful tool here.Anything from clearing lawn edges to trimming large areas of big grass,to felling hay,to clearing bramble patches as high as your neck 8),to clearing big areas of troublesome sapling growth,c'mon,you just KNOW you need one of these
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on March 19, 2019, 07:49:35 PM
I like the look of that shredder blade. That looks like it would be perfect for stickers. The problem I have with them and a chainsaw, is I cut the stalks off at the base, and they literally go nowhere. It's a freestanding unit with all the branches interlocked. Blasting them to bits would be the ideal way of handling them. Some of these haven't seen attention in I don't know how long, and they're the better part of 1"/stalk at the base.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on March 19, 2019, 10:24:05 PM
I can't stand the blades like the one you linked that has 80 teeth. They don't seem to cut very well and are a pain to sharpen. The 22-tooth blade you linked cuts saplings fairly well, and resharpens easily & quickly (much faster than sharpening a chainsaw) with a 7/32" round file. Husqvarna calls these their "Scarlet" blade.

SwampDonkey mentioned the Maxi blade. He told me about this one years ago. It looks a bit like the 22-tooth blade you linked, but cuts much better. They are available in the US, but not many people in my area seem to stock them. I've been buying them online. Here are a couple of links. I'm not sure if these are the size to fit the brush saw you are thinking of, but they give you the idea. The difference from the Scarlett blade is subtle: look in the gullet of the teeth.
Windsor Maxi Blade (https://www.amickssuperstore.com/Windsor_Maxi_200_25_8_25mm_Clearing_Saw_Blade_p/windsor%20maxi-200-25.htm)
Husqvarna Maxi Blade (https://www.amazon.com/Husqvarna-200-26T-Brush-Cutter-578443101/dp/B00EWFCXYU/)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Air Lad on March 20, 2019, 02:33:47 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 19, 2019, 05:57:24 PM
These guys are using the 'shredder blade 320-2' on their FS560's and a lighter guard.

Shredder blade 320-2 - Special tool for strong undergrowth (https://www.stihl.com/STIHL-power-tools-A-great-range/Brushcutters-and-Clearing-saws/Cutting-tools-and-accessories/Cutting-tools/2292-63713/Shredder-blade-320-2.aspx)

Fs 560-550 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDRmaP7M6os)

Might be something to look into.
Crikey
Need to keep em separated  :o
Friendly fire could be ugly
But these look like my triple blade thing
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on March 20, 2019, 05:33:59 AM
More like a lawn mower, two blades. :D

What kind of blades to do DR Brush mowers use you walk behind?

Stay away from wire and old relic farm machinery junk in the ground. :D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on March 20, 2019, 07:09:27 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 20, 2019, 05:33:59 AMWhat kind of blades to do DR Brush mowers use you walk behind?


DR Brush Mowers use blades that look a lot like what's on a Brush Hog you use on the 3 point hitch of a tractor, just a bit smaller.

DR also sells what looks like a string trimmer on wheels. They call it a "Trimmer Mower". An option they sell for these is a 12" "Beaver Blade" (looks like a circular saw blade, but with chainsaw chain wrapped around the outer edge).

The wheeled string trimmer might be nice if you had a lot of fence line to mow. I got to try one with the Beaver blade installed. It cut OK, and might also be good for fence line or open field duty (though I prefer my handheld clearing saw). I could not imagine using it in the woods at all.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Allar on March 20, 2019, 02:09:38 PM
This is the blade that i use the majority of the time. I even use it for grass when i'm to lazy to change the head xD Works well tho.
You sharpen it the same way, like you sharpen your lawnmover blade.
You can use it to cut 1inch thick stuff, i have taken down up to 2inch but it takes more time and puts more stress on the machine.

Amazon.com: 10" x 3 Teeth Steel Brush Cutter, Trimmer, Weed Eater Blade: Home Improvement (https://www.amazon.com/Teeth-Steel-Brush-Cutter-Trimmer/dp/B007MW0MSE)


This is a proper forest blade. You can sharpen it with a 5.5mm chainsaw file.
However, you do need to 'bend' the teeths from time to time to create clearence.
This is the best tool for that type of blade. Amazon.com : Husqvarna File Setting Tool 505698120 for Chain Saws : Garden & Outdoor (https://www.amazon.com/Husqvarna-File-Setting-505698120-Chain/dp/B00EWFEN8Y)


Husqvarna 20022t Scarlett 8" Brush Cutter Blade 323R, 336FR, 345FR, 555FX: Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Husqvarna-20022t-Scarlett-Brush-Cutter/dp/B00EWFCUWK)


Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on March 20, 2019, 02:31:46 PM
For thinning dense tree stems we use this blade.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_blades1.jpg)

And this set tool/ file guide. Easy to file.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_Brush_File_Guide.jpg)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: sawguy21 on March 20, 2019, 02:38:08 PM
I believe the 'Beaver' blade was discontinued for safety reasons, the cutters broke off too easily. I have used and liked the blade SD shows, I carried a couple of spares and sharpened them at the end of the day. Rocks and fence wire are hard on them.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on March 20, 2019, 03:05:04 PM
I think them beaver blades are on US websites, but not up here. I've never seen one in any shop. I wouldn't want one of them chains let loose from something spinning 10,000 rpm's. That would hurt on the leg. :D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on March 20, 2019, 03:46:52 PM
DR Power still lists the Beaver Blade on their web site. I never did like them. The Maxi blade cuts faster and is faster to sharpen.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on March 20, 2019, 03:56:35 PM
@Allar (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=32320) If you are using a the Scarlet blade you linked in reply #29, you should try one of the Maxi blades I linked and that Swamp Donkey showed a picture of. I'm not sure why, but they seem to cut better than the Scarlett blade. They are also made of better steel, so they hold an edge longer. I switched a few years ago at Swamp Donkey's recommendation, and have been happy I did.

I use the 3 armed blade you mentioned for cutting light, brush, and some smaller softwood saplings. I've done a few 2" pines, but generally limit myself to less than 1" softwoods. Tried it on Buckthorn, but if it's more than about 1/2" to 3/4", I don't use that style blade. It's just too hard on the machine.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on March 20, 2019, 04:07:32 PM
If I were to get one additional blade to what it comes with, which style would be best? I like the looks of the shredder, and I think that would be ideal for turning banks of stickers to pieces, but will it also work as a general cutter? eg smaller sticker clumps, young bittersweet, very small saplings... I have just about zero interest in cutting grass. Almost everything will have some kind of woody component. For bigger stuff, I can carry my 2511t in a pack, and pull it out if needed.


Additionally, it looks like it comes with a 10" 80 tooth blade that looks like a circular saw blade. It looks like it'll cut great til it doesn't, and would be a real bear to resharpen. Would it be worth downgrading(?) to the 8" 22 tooth blade that looks like it sharpens with a chainsaw file? All keeping in mind my intended cutting jobs.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on March 20, 2019, 04:15:07 PM
Yes, get a chisel tooth blade, either style. I prefer the 'Maxi' chisel tooth, on the right. Cuts better.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_blades2.jpg)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on March 20, 2019, 04:36:31 PM
Quote from: lxskllr on March 20, 2019, 04:07:32 PMAdditionally, it looks like it comes with a 10" 80 tooth blade that looks like a circular saw blade. It looks like it'll cut great til it doesn't, and would be a real bear to resharpen. Would it be worth downgrading(?) to the 8" 22 tooth blade that looks like it sharpens with a chainsaw file? All keeping in mind my intended cutting jobs.


Switching to either style of the Chisel tooth blades is definitely an upgrade from that 80 tooth blade. As SD mentioned, the Maxi style is better.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Jeremyvan on March 20, 2019, 07:31:43 PM
If your getting rid of mostly black berries and things like that a hedge trimmer works amazing! 
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: two4spooky on March 24, 2019, 12:52:07 AM
Quote from: lxskllr on March 18, 2019, 03:52:12 PM
Contemplating getting a clearing saw. Still cutting vines on the boss' farm, and the stickers are getting on my nerves. Been holding off cause I don't really need one for my stuff, and I like being "the guy with the chainsaw" which sometimes gets you fun work, as opposed to being "the guy with the clearing saw" which will never get you fun work. That's like being "the guy with the posthole diggers"  :^P


So... Are they pretty cool to have? I'd like something that can make quick easy work of stickers, and small saplings.  I've used weedeaters before, but nothing with a blade. Echo's 15% off day is coming near me at the beginning of April, and I'm thinking of their best unit...


SRM-410U Gas Grass and Weed Brushcutter | ECHO USA (https://www.echo-usa.com/Products/Brushcutters/SRM-410U)


It would take ~24 hours of working on the farm to pay it off, whereas using my chainsaws is just about all profit at this point, but absolutely no fun in the huge banks of stickers. I've been leaving them for the most part, only cutting into them so I can get to the bittersweet and other vines. Best case scenario, is I talk him into buying it himself, and I'll use it, but I'm just about at the point of getting it on my own so I can see things prettied up, instead of the rats nests of junk everywhere.
I had a similar need a few months ago clearing water and gas lines. Like you I had been using chainsaws and long machetes plus a Stihl FS 100r with heavy .105" X-line(sp?). I ended up with my first clearing saw, the ECHO 410 you linked. I am a STIHL fanboy but could not justify a comparable Stihl's added cost. The Echo has been great and fills the gap between chainsaw and blade, a real time and back saver. Well worth it. I agree with removing white plastic H(on the side) and L(on top) limiters. The Echo HD harness is a worth while improvement. I am still trying to figure out which blade type works best for my needs. But the Echo 410 has been a good machine, simple and well built. I would buy it again.                
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: two4spooky on March 24, 2019, 01:07:00 AM
Quote from: lxskllr on March 20, 2019, 04:07:32 PM
If I were to get one additional blade to what it comes with, which style would be best? I like the looks of the shredder, and I think that would be ideal for turning banks of stickers to pieces, but will it also work as a general cutter? eg smaller sticker clumps, young bittersweet, very small saplings... I have just about zero interest in cutting grass. Almost everything will have some kind of woody component. For bigger stuff, I can carry my 2511t in a pack, and pull it out if needed.


Additionally, it looks like it comes with a 10" 80 tooth blade that looks like a circular saw blade. It looks like it'll cut great til it doesn't, and would be a real bear to resharpen. Would it be worth downgrading(?) to the 8" 22 tooth blade that looks like it sharpens with a chainsaw file? All keeping in mind my intended cutting jobs.
Also, I resharpen the 80t blade with a raker file. I bought a spare 80t blade and use it to compare. The teeth angles alternate. File every other tooth then flip over and file the other 40. Easier than sharpening a saw chain well. The 80t works best on ~1/2" saplings. The tri-blade is better for our blackberry(sticker) bushes.  
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on March 24, 2019, 09:25:31 AM
Quote from: Jeremyvan on March 20, 2019, 07:31:43 PM
If your getting rid of mostly black berries and things like that a hedge trimmer works amazing!
The 3-toothed blade on a clearing saw someone showed earlier works really well for this type of stuff.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: thriceor on March 25, 2019, 08:56:23 PM
I have been using a Stihl FS-560 off and on for over a year now.  I don't have a whole lot of hours on it, but have had no trouble with the saw.  I use primarily on honeysuckle, it will cut 5-6 inch stems, but slows down a bit when the weight of the bush pinches the blade.  It generally has plenty of power on the smaller stuff to "swing" right through.  It is heavy and quite a workout.  It is also loud, I use earplugs and ear muffs.  

I found the supplied harness uncomfortable and switched to a Husqvarna forestry harness (not sure which model).  I prefer the "Maxi" blades SwampDonkey refers to, they seem to cut better and are easy to sharpen.  I purchased them from Bailey's.

Yes, it is quite expensive, but if you have large amounts to cut or an on-going project (like honeysuckle eradication), this is the way to go.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on March 26, 2019, 06:29:18 AM
I have a 7 year old FS560 and a 16 year old FS550 I use every year. They are reliable, well made saws. But the harness is junk, so I also use the Husqvarna forestry harness. I have to use it with a buckle to attach it to the saw. The harness hook uses metal too soft for the Stihl attachment point. Been doing that for years. And finally last year I was able to get a spark screen that was open enough that it would not plug up in 2 days. The original spark screens were worthless. Couldn't get enough air, the screen carboned up by the middle of the week.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Air Lad on March 26, 2019, 07:24:01 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 26, 2019, 06:29:18 AM
I have a 7 year old FS560 and a 16 year old FS550 I use every year. They are reliable, well made saws. But the harness is junk, so I also use the Husqvarna forestry harness. I have to use it with a buckle to attach it to the saw. The harness hook uses metal too soft for the Stihl attachment point. Been doing that for years. And finally last year I was able to get a spark screen that was open enough that it would not plug up in 2 days. The original spark screens were worthless. Couldn't get enough air, the screen carboned up by the middle of the week.
Maybe try using a fuel additive that will reduce carbon build up. A larger mesh sized screen seems to have helped you
Steel security door mesh has worked for me in some applications
Just cut to size with a small grinder with thin cutting disc
Am just looking into a harness for mine
The single strap is uncomfortable
Cheers
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on March 26, 2019, 07:38:23 AM
Yeah the better screens was the answer. The original ones that came on them where just too tightly woven. New one never bunged up all summer last year. I use top quality mix oil with stabilizer in it.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on March 26, 2019, 08:01:37 AM
Do you know what mesh size you ended up using for that screen?
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on March 26, 2019, 09:15:54 AM
This plug was off the shelf, and I have no clue, other than it doesn't plug up. :D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on March 26, 2019, 10:30:43 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 26, 2019, 06:29:18 AM
I have a 7 year old FS560 and a 16 year old FS550 I use every year. They are reliable, well made saws. But the harness is junk, so I also use the Husqvarna forestry harness. I have to use it with a buckle to attach it to the saw. The harness hook uses metal too soft for the Stihl attachment point. Been doing that for years. And finally last year I was able to get a spark screen that was open enough that it would not plug up in 2 days. The original spark screens were worthless. Couldn't get enough air, the screen carboned up by the middle of the week.
Any familiarity with the echo harness, or can you see anything bad/good from the picture?
Product and Equipment Accessories for ECHO units including Safety Accessories (https://www.echo-usa.com/Products/Accessories/Personal-Protection-Apparel/Harnesses/Brushcutter-Harness)
If I do end up getting a saw, I also have easy access to Stihl and Husqvarna dealers for a harness if echo's isn't good.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on March 26, 2019, 11:43:57 AM
I don't really like the way the saw attachment hook appears to be above the pad. They are suppose to be down over the pad itself like this in link below.

https://www.husqvarna.com/ca-en/accessories/harnesses/harness-balance-xt/578449801
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: thriceor on March 28, 2019, 08:58:36 PM
The Husqvarna Balance XT is the one I use.  It takes a bit of adjusting, but definitely distributes the load better than the Stihl harness.  The only problem I've had with the XT is that the chest buckle tends to bow out and then the underside presses against my sternum.

I know it's been mentioned before, but good eye protection and a face screen are necessary with these saws, they can throw chips all about.  I find the saw quite fun to use, until I start to wear out. 
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on April 05, 2019, 11:21:47 AM
Saw's ordered, and should be in next Tuesday. I'm gonna be very angry with you guys if I end up being "clearing saw guy"  :^D


They said they couldn't swap the blade, which is fine. I'm gonna order a Maxi after I get it, and get a triblade cutter once I measure the clearance with the shield. Based on Stihl's catalog, I think it's a little too small for a shredder blade. I also got the echo harness. It was half the price of the Husqvarna XT, and they gave me 15% off that too. If it's really terrible, I can get the Husky later. Got the cutter and harness for $580 total, tax and everything. Not bad I don't think. Looking forward to tearing up some stickers  :^)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 05, 2019, 04:36:38 PM
Well, you was meant to stand up to cut them, not bent down like a chimp. So just remind yourself of that when your taking revenge on them sticks. :D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on April 15, 2019, 05:15:31 PM
Got my first time with the brushcutter today, and you guys were right; it is kinda fun  :^D

I just did some easy stuff to get a feel for the machine. Pretty much level ground, and a mix of things to cut. I'm using the 80 tooth blade, and that's not so great. It has its place I guess, but not for my purposes. It seems to be best when you need a bit more than string, but nothing too woody. I already have my tritooth blade, and I'm hoping the Maxi's waiting for me when I get home today. The stock harness isn't so great either. It'll work in a pinch, but it gets uncomfortable after awhile. I wouldn't like doing an 8 hour day in it. My "pro" harness should be in tomorrow. It didn't make it on the truck with the brushcutter last week.

Overall, I'm pleased with my purchase. Looking forward to fine tuning my technique. Only 22.5 hours left to pay it off  :^D 

Thanks everyone for the help!
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 16, 2019, 04:32:46 AM
 thumbs-up  Another bush whacker.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Allar on April 17, 2019, 02:27:13 AM
lxskllr (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=39990), which one did you get? say_what
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Air Lad on April 17, 2019, 05:37:22 AM
After watching the video way back I realized they can work in a vertical plane as well
Up until then I only used this machine at ground level
Doors have opened
cheers
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on April 17, 2019, 10:45:27 AM
Quote from: Allar on April 17, 2019, 02:27:13 AM
lxskllr (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=39990), which one did you get? say_what
I got the echo srm-410u. That was really the only contender. It provided the necessary power at a price I wanted to pay. One of the really big Stihls would have been nice, but too much $.
I took it out again yesterday with my tripoint blade, and I really like that one. That's almost perfect for my uses. One problem I'm seeing is I need two blades at one time. Something for cutting wood, and another for shredding brush. Refining my procedures will probably give an acceptable result. Go through shredding the little stuff, then come back with the maxi blade to cut the wood, or maybe use my little saw.
I already lost the three screws holding the guard on. I'll have to buy some more along with some locktite  :rollseyes:
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Pine Ridge on April 17, 2019, 12:22:17 PM
I wish I had never started reading this thread. I cleared off the hillside behind our house last winter with a chainsaw, grown up clearcut jungle type mess. I sprayed it with roundup last summer, some sprouts still keep coming back. I'm starting to think I could really use a clearing saw !!!!!
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on April 17, 2019, 04:37:04 PM
Quote from: Pine Ridge on April 17, 2019, 12:22:17 PM
I wish I had never started reading this thread. I cleared off the hillside behind our house last winter with a chainsaw, grown up clearcut jungle type mess. I sprayed it with roundup last summer, some sprouts still keep coming back. I'm starting to think I could really use a clearing saw !!!!!
If I had any kind of acerage, I wouldn't have even made this thread. I'd have just bought it. My property's small, and while I let it grow up, I can handle everything with a machete. The farm I'm cleaning was let go for a long time, and it would be a full time job for a year+ to clear it with manual tools, and wouldn't be at all fun. I'm already ~80 hours in with no end in sight. Got the big vines with my chainsaw, but there's still tons of stickers and vinelettes that need to be taken care of. As much as possible, I'm also anti chemical. I figure humans made it to the 20th century witnout them, and I can too, especially since I have cushy motorized tools to use  :^D
All of which is to say, I highly recommend a clearing saw. I'm only 3.5 hours in, and I've at least doubled my machete productivity, and while I'm still getting stuck, I've also saved a bunch of blood  :^D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 17, 2019, 04:37:32 PM
 ;D :D :D You know you want one. Go for it! Why not? Be surprised what you need it for. ;)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Allar on April 18, 2019, 10:04:37 AM
I have no words to describe how useful brush cutter can be. I'm looking to purchase another one, preferbably husqvarna  :)
I don't buy new stuff because i like to fix things :D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Pine Ridge on April 18, 2019, 03:28:16 PM
I've got alot of projects going on right now, if I can get caught up I may just buy me one. Hillside I cleared is about an acre, sure be alot handier than cutting sprouts with a 550xp.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on April 18, 2019, 06:04:18 PM
Got my new harness today. More comfortable than the basic harness. The handlebars are getting a little slop in them. I took them off, and noticed one of the keyed teeth were broken. I'm not even sure why it has a screw like that. It's either on or off, no adjustment. Perhaps it's for quickly taking them off for stowage?  Not a big deal, but I can feel the movement. 

Worked 3 hours today, and it kind of kicked my butt. I'm slashing down through the tops of the sticker banks, and it wears on the arms after awhile. So far, so good. Machine's 30% paid off as of today. It's looking like it'll be paid for before the obnoxiously hot weather gets here  :^)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 19, 2019, 05:03:04 AM
Keep in mind it is not a pro model, so it will not take the same abuse. ;)

Let the dealer know, that should be warranted.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on April 19, 2019, 07:19:17 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on April 19, 2019, 05:03:04 AM
Keep in mind it is not a pro model, so it will not take the same abuse. ;)

Let the dealer know, that should be warranted.
I've been using it hard. Let me ask you a question about technique... With the tripoint blade, I've found that attacking the ~1" stalks with authority cuts through them pretty well, where going slow burns through, and makes the wood smoke(I'd actually be concerned about fire if I weren't in wet MD). >1" will take a few hits to get through. Is hitting the stalks with some force acceptable technique, or is that considered abuse?
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 19, 2019, 09:46:10 AM
It's not really for 1" hard stems. So, it would be a bit abusive with that blade. ;) Raspberry, blackberry and red osier dogwood type stuff then yes.

A test of blades, as a side note I would never use a carbide tip blade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYOlZb2bmmU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYOlZb2bmmU)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Air Lad on April 19, 2019, 06:34:47 PM
Hi
These are some of the blade options available here
The triangle one broke the angle drive box on the end of the stick once when it hit 
a besser block (large brick) which was hiding in the underbrush
An after market one fixed it as the parts for the old Kawasaki were not available
They all have their applications
Cheers
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53116/20190329_185541.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1555712633)
 
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on April 19, 2019, 07:08:56 PM
Next trip out I'll try the maxi blade. I've been liking the way the tripoint handles stickers, so I haven't used the other blade. I'm guessing the maxi will work better on the stems, but not as good breaking it all down. Maybe I can figure something out that'll handle it all with one blade.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Allar on April 20, 2019, 02:24:06 AM
With triangle blade, you need to swing it hard, or tap it.   1'' is no problem for that blade.
It's not like you're cutting, more like beating the chunks out of em.

You can try the maxi blade but i think you'll go back to triangle one.

Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 20, 2019, 06:19:49 AM
I'd try the one like a mower blade myself. Less blades more sustained rpms. ;D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on April 20, 2019, 08:39:55 PM
Quote from: Allar on April 20, 2019, 02:24:06 AM
With triangle blade, you need to swing it hard, or tap it.   1'' is no problem for that blade.
It's not like you're cutting, more like beating the chunks out of em.

You can try the maxi blade but i think you'll go back to triangle one.
1" brush or 1" softwood, maybe. Those triangle blades are not good for hardwood. You get tired quickly and beat your machine to death using one cutting buckthorn. For that sort of stuff, the Maxi is my go-to blade.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Allar on April 21, 2019, 01:51:00 AM
Well i use it to clear hazelnut and aspen brush around planted trees. First time before planting i had to use maxi blade but because i clear the brush every year, i can use the triangle blade now.

Hazelnut grows so *DanG fast, with in a year it'll be over my head.

Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 21, 2019, 06:18:24 AM
Like John said, in woody stems, the Maxi blade requires less physical effort by the operator. No flailing around with the saw like a sythe. The triblade may work well enough in new growth before it hardens off. Hazel gets hard. We have it here (beaked and witch) sometimes under hardwood or aspen. Up here the mills categorize hardwood as maple, ironwood, oak, beech, birch. Aspen and poplar (Both populus) is categorized by itself because it is soft. It is never mixed in hardwood on truck loads of pulp. Some mills even separate the birch.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on April 21, 2019, 10:57:40 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on April 21, 2019, 06:18:24 AM
Like John said, in woody stems, the Maxi blade requires less physical effort by the operator. No flailing around with the saw like a sythe. The triblade may work well enough in new growth before it hardens off. Hazel gets hard. We have it here (beaked and witch) sometimes under hardwood or aspen. Up here the mills categorize hardwood as maple, ironwood, oak, beech, birch. Aspen and poplar (Both populus) is categorized by itself because it is soft. It is never mixed in hardwood on truck loads of pulp. Some mills even separate the birch.
Same here. A lot of folks just refer to aspen/poplar as a softwood (they know that's not technically correct, but it separates it from what they consider the "real" hardwoods).
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Allar on April 22, 2019, 03:21:12 PM
What about birch?
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on April 22, 2019, 03:53:09 PM
Quote from: Allar on April 22, 2019, 03:21:12 PM
What about birch?
Around my area, we have
Black Birch (Betula lenta), also known as Sweet Birch
Yellow Birch (Betula alleghaniensis)
White Birch (Betula papyrifera) also known as Paper Birch
and Gray Birch (Betula populifolia)

White Birch is generally what most people in my area think of if you just say "Birch". Some confuse Gray Birch with White Birch, since they can look similar. (Gray Birch has tightly adhering bark, where White Birch peels off easily in strips.)

On the firewood scale (which is a decent proxy for density of the wood)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Woodcutter_Mo on April 23, 2019, 09:11:47 AM
A good heavy duty trimmer or clearing saw comes in real handy. I have an FS90 and use it with a fair assortment of brush blades, it does a good job but would like to get a slightly more powerful model eventually. For me a brush cutter doesn't hurt my back as much apposed to clearing brush with a chainsaw. And they're (atleast the model I have) very easy on fuel. 

 My favorite blades are: the Stihl "Brush Knife" 3 edged blade for heavy grass and small diameter brush like wild multiflora rose and buck brush
 The Stihl "chisel tooth" saw blade for brush and saplings up to a couple inches in diameter.
 And I now have a Forester chainsaw tooth blade(has semi chisel chainsaw cutter teeth riveted to the blade) which is working good, doesn't bind up in cutting saplings as much due to it's thicker kerf and cutter to plate clearance. Time will tell how it holds up but I really like it so far for cutting thick diameter brush and saplings up to 3". It's not great for grass though. 
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on April 23, 2019, 05:15:01 PM
I got about an hour in with the maxi blade today. It works *really* nice cutting stems and saplings. It's kind of mediocre breaking down the sticker bushes, and the blade got jammed a lot with stuff getting stuck between the blade and the guard. I'll have to spend more time with it, but I think it's my second favorite next to the tripoint. If I were only cutting saplings, it would be the blade to use. I don't care for the 80 tooth blade at all. I'll use it til it's worn out, but it won't be replaced. So far the JB Weld's holding the handlebars. Fingers crossed  :^)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on April 24, 2019, 04:17:08 PM
Maxi blade is out. It's kinda like a chainsaw. Works great when sharp, and virtually useless dull. I hit a couple rocks, and it wouldn't cut after that. Sharpening it wasn't a problem, but adding the jamming issue, and the stuff I'm cutting, I switched back to the tripoint. I'm still considering a shredder blade. I'm thinking I have enough horsepower to run it as long as I'm reasonable regarding my target. I won't be tearing down saplings like the video above, but sticker bushes shouldn't be too hard on the unit.


Got another 3.5 hours in today. That seems to be about my limit. That work really kills me. Fighting with vines, getting tangled, and doing a lot of manhandling of the machine... I'm using a lot arm muscle to swing it around. It's also a little demotivating to see green stuff coming up from the piles I previously cut. I miss some vines, and don't see them til the ones I cut turn brown. Everything also looks like a disaster zone. Brush and saplings laying everywhere. Hopefully, once the hard stuff's done, it'll just be a matter of hitting spots here and there to keep the junk down til it dies. Maybe someone else can pick it up with a string trimmer.


Plus side, my JB Weld is holding up. Minus, is I lost two of the screws I locktited in. I may have to start buying screws by the case  :^D  I'll try it again, and if I lose them again, I guess I'll have to get the heavy hold formula. I wasn't sure which to get when I was buying. I didn't want a hassle when I have to remove the shield, but maybe the regular isn't strong enough. Still gettin' it, and the machine's about 48% paid off. I'll be happy if I make it into the profit zone, even if only by a smidge  :^)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on April 24, 2019, 05:57:17 PM
As you've found, the Maxi blade stinks at grassy-type stuff, and is mediocre at brushy things like multiflora rose. However, you just can't beat a Maxi for saplings (about 1" and up). As you use it more, you'll develop some techniques for keeping it out of the rocks.

You can try a tri-point blade to beat a sapling to death, but the bigger and harder wood it is, the worse a tri-point blade works, and the more you are abusing your equipment trying to make do with one. A maxi isn't magic. It shouldn't be surprising that it won't cut after you hit a single rock, let alone a couple of them. Fortunately, they are quick and easy to sharpen.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on April 24, 2019, 06:07:47 PM
Problem is I can't see the rocks til I'm into them. I was on the island today, and I can't even see the top bank in some cases. It's just vines on top of vines on top of stickers. Almost fell down the slope a few times, and of course my reaction is to grab the handlebars tighter to steady myself. Flapping my arms to fly out would be as effective  :^D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 25, 2019, 06:24:00 AM
When we are thinning rocky ground, we have to do what is called double cuts. Balsam fir and red spruce saplings have green limbs to the ground and you can't see rocks, it's a solid green. And then it becomes like pitching hay out of the way sometimes because limbs grow into limbs of others. :D So we cut high then cut down lower. You ain't seen rocks until you thinned in Deersdale, Pokiok or McAdam in New Brunswick. :D

Your saw binds more than a pro model since you haven't the torque to clear the guard in that viny stuff. I have thinned thick osier dogwoods before and that is like going through grape vines. I just swing back and forth with the FS560. Need sharp in that or the stems just bounce off.

Shoving that saw into the ground and hanging on is often a third leg. :D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Woodcutter_Mo on April 25, 2019, 06:44:22 AM
 Yea rocks and also metal t-posts and rebar stakes are hard on blades. What I do alot of times is put the tri point brush knife blade on and go through and thin out the smaller stuff to where I can see the ground better first because that blade is much more forgiving when it comes to rocks and such. Then I go back through with the chisel tooth blades to get the larger brush. I usually keep a few spare blades in my box so I can switch out if I do dull the blade. After several hundred hours of practice, occasionally I do hit a rock here and there  :D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on April 25, 2019, 08:35:55 AM
That strategy of cutting higher first, and then come back and cut low when you can see better is what I do when cutting in areas where hitting rocks, other debris, or uneven ground is a concern.

IF I had two machines, I might use Woodcutter_Mo's strategy of changing blades. However, if I recall, changing blades also requires changing the blade guard on my brush saw, which involves more time and removing & replacing 4 small bolts - which I'm sure I'd lose, so I don't often change styles of blades in the field.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Woodcutter_Mo on April 29, 2019, 06:51:44 PM
Quote from: John Mc on April 25, 2019, 08:35:55 AM
That strategy of cutting higher first, and then come back and cut low when you can see better is what I do when cutting in areas where hitting rocks, other debris, or uneven ground is a concern.

IF I had two machines, I might use Woodcutter_Mo's strategy of changing blades. However, if I recall, changing blades also requires changing the blade guard on my brush saw, which involves more time and removing & replacing 4 small bolts - which I'm sure I'd lose, so I don't often change styles of blades in the field.
That's true, some blades won't fit with certain guards. It's not super practical but instead of changing out the guard itself, I have a second gear head with the different style guard. My main reasoning is that I don't want to take the guards on and off so much that the screws start coming loose when I am working. 
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on April 29, 2019, 08:16:15 PM
Five more hours til the machine's paid off, and I'm not sure it'll make it  :^D  On the subject of guards, I broke one the metal brackets today, and the guard itself is cracked. It's also got a bunch of vibration now, and feels like there may be slop in the driveshaft. I'll be switching back to the maxi blade, and hopefully that'll smooth things out some.

What goes bad on these units? Is a driveshaft something that gets replaced? Gear head?
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on April 29, 2019, 08:54:36 PM
The gear head takes a beating if you are trying to cut down hard saplings with something like the 3 pointed blade
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on April 29, 2019, 09:37:48 PM
Is the gear head something you use til it breaks, or do I want to preemptively replace it?
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on April 29, 2019, 09:53:13 PM
Quote from: lxskllr on April 29, 2019, 09:37:48 PM
Is the gear head something you use til it breaks, or do I want to preemptively replace it?
I've never broken one. On a relatively new machine, if that really is the source of your vibration problem (and not just an out-of-balance blade), you either have a saw that is undersized for what you are doing, or you are using that 3-pointed blade on stems is was not intended to deal with.
If it's relatively new, you may be able to get a warranty repair.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Allar on April 30, 2019, 01:38:08 AM
Don't forget to grease the gear head once in a while.
I managed to break the guard on mine the first day/hour :D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on April 30, 2019, 07:21:03 AM
Grease schedule is at 25hrs. I was thinking of doing it yesterday, but I want to see if the vibration settles out first. Hoping it's just a messed up blade. I have 19hrs, and 19L of fuel in it so far.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Inaotherlife on April 30, 2019, 12:29:38 PM
Think I need a machete.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on April 30, 2019, 01:00:40 PM
Quote from: Inaotherlife on April 30, 2019, 12:29:38 PM
Think I need a machete.
AFAIK, this is the best available for mixed use(briars/wood)...
Amazon.com : Ontario Knife Company 8521 Ontario Orange D-Handle Heavy Duty Machete 22-1/2" Fixed Blade Plain Edge : Sports & Outdoors (https://www.amazon.com/Ontario-Knife-Company-8521-D-Handle/dp/B001DVT74A/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?keywords=ontario+machete&qid=1556643661&s=gateway&sr=8-7)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: hatman-nz on April 30, 2019, 04:20:53 PM
have both a still fs35. and a 58 cc echo  
the big echo. is. ok  in thick going   alot more power but. don't like the guard that come with it too light. and more suited  to line trimming   tends to get tangled up 
smaller still  better. guard on it. and lighter to use all day    
 
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: zimraphail on April 30, 2019, 04:46:29 PM
I still use my little 450 Jonsereds I bought new in 1983. I picked up a echo timberwolf two years ago and liking that saw allot! But I scored a mint condition Jonsereds 625 last week and when my new chains get here think im gonna love that saw! It didnt bog in hard cherry even with a dull totaly used up chain! To me a 45 cc class saw is perfect for most light clearing ? Im no prffesional though so Im in no hurry!
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on April 30, 2019, 06:24:02 PM
I was contemplating just buying a new gear head. I figured it would be $100-$120 for the whole assembly, and that was figuring in the 'screw you for wanting to buy parts' tax. They actually want twice that amount. That's 40% of the whole machine, or 66% of what I paid for my cs400  D^:


I put the maxi blade on today, but didn't have a chance to run it. There was grease on top of my tripoint blade when I took it off. Maybe the seal is starting to leak. I'll give it a good inspection before I use it again, and grease it up. If it halfway behaves, I'm just gonna keep running it. If it gets bad, I'll decide between a warranty claim, replacing the whole gear head, or just buying parts. I need to add up the prices of all the individual parts. If it isn't significantly more than a whole unit, I may try part replacement after inspecting the guts. I don't have precision machining/measuring tools, so it would be eyeballing and guessing, and I don't like chasing problems like that.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Inaotherlife on April 30, 2019, 10:25:45 PM
Quote from: lxskllr on April 30, 2019, 01:00:40 PM
Quote from: Inaotherlife on April 30, 2019, 12:29:38 PM
Think I need a machete.
AFAIK, this is the best available for mixed use(briars/wood)...
Amazon.com : Ontario Knife Company 8521 Ontario Orange D-Handle Heavy Duty Machete 22-1/2" Fixed Blade Plain Edge : Sports & Outdoors (https://www.amazon.com/Ontario-Knife-Company-8521-D-Handle/dp/B001DVT74A/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?keywords=ontario+machete&qid=1556643661&s=gateway&sr=8-7)
That does look nice. Especially the D-handle.
I usually just try and run stuff over with the riding mower. 
But got a few tight spots. Just not enough for a clearing saw or even the expense of a brush cutter.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on May 01, 2019, 05:39:11 PM
Quote from: lxskllr on April 29, 2019, 08:16:15 PM
Five more hours til the machine's paid off, and I'm not sure it'll make it  :^D 
Didn't make it at 2 hours left. I took the end apart, but left the gear head assembled. The gear head feels pretty reasonable to me. I think some stuff came loose in the main tube, and if I didn't need one before, I do now after playing with it. It has at least 4 rubber spacers in the tube, with a simple metal 'bearing' inside each one, and the drive shaft runs in those. When I took the driveshaft out, one of the metal bearings just fell out. I didn't know what I was dealing with, so I've got it all compacted pretty good trying to shove the bits out with the driveshaft. They don't look like replaceable parts, and it would be pretty tricky getting them into position anyway. Looks like I'll be getting a new tube at ~$90, and hopefully that'll fix my vibration issue.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on May 01, 2019, 06:56:28 PM
I'm guessing you are too late for warranty service now that you've taken it all apart?
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on May 01, 2019, 07:22:56 PM
Quote from: John Mc on May 01, 2019, 06:56:28 PM
I'm guessing you are too late for warranty service now that you've taken it all apart?
Probably. I was a little ambivalent about making a warranty claim anyway. I've been using this thing hard. Of the 22hrs I've used it, I doubt 3 were gently sweeping it, and knocking down weeds. It's been lots of muscle, slamming it dense brush, and sweeping it hard, torquing with my body. Hard to point to defect in materials and workmanship. Aside from that, reading around, echo doesn't like doing warranty claims, and I don't need the aggravation. Put it in the shop, wait a couple weeks, and argue with echo the whole time. It's worth $100 to just get it done, and I'll just have to add a few hours to pay off time.
If I had to guess what happened, me slamming into brush caused the driveshaft to slap the mounts, eating away the rubber, and causing the bearings to fall. It then wobbled causing heavy vibration. The design is a little problematic, but I'm having trouble thinking of a better way to set it up, while keeping weight down. There's no part# for the rubber or bearings. It might be nice if they were made to be replaceable. Make a long plunger available with depth gauges to drive the old spacers out, and set new ones. Either that, or make the whole shaft cheaper. It's just an aluminum tube with a couple bits inside. $25, and they'd still make a nice profit  :shrugs:  I'd be interested in seeing how Stihl and Husqvarna handle it. I might looks up their parts lists later.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on May 01, 2019, 07:23:04 PM
An angle gear, as we call them, can take quite a beating. I'm more inclined to throw a drive shaft than bust an angle gear so soon. We always run the angle gear until they quit spin'n the blade. They are about $300 on a pro saw. Lucky for us we can claim parts as a refundable tax credit on income tax. On my Stihl there is no bearings in the tube for the shaft itself. When an end snaps off a shaft it's a quick swap out, once you remove the gear assembly by loosening the set screw. I've taken out 1 clutch and two shafts on this saw since 2014. Never lost an angle gear on it.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on May 01, 2019, 07:34:12 PM
What keeps the shaft centered in the tube on your Stihls? When I say 'bearing', it's a very loose definition. The echo has rubber plugs(3cm-4cm long) with a hole in the middle, and a small lip on the inside edge, and that holds the bearing in place, which is simply a piece of metal 'pipe'; kind of like the center ferrule on an old school click pen. The kind they made replaceable cartridges for.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Inaotherlife on May 01, 2019, 10:33:46 PM
So maybe a bushing.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: hatman-nz on May 02, 2019, 05:31:59 AM
the echo I have has a huge. guard in it. and in vines etc. would. be. a pain in the butt  catching on things. like the  guard on my still  better.  a lot smaller 
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Air Lad on May 02, 2019, 05:54:07 AM
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53116/20190502_175919.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1556790416)
 This old girl was gifted to me last week
Runs a bit rough but I intend to make a pole saw out of her
This might not help  :(
Actually I broke an angle drive head once and fixed it with fibreglass
The internals were fine but the housing failed
Epoxy resin and glass fibres are very strong
Still going years later
Good luck  smiley_thumbsup
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on May 02, 2019, 07:08:03 AM
That's a good looking unit. Good luck getting her going  :^)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on May 02, 2019, 05:38:32 PM
The shaft runs down inside a flexible liner.

Number 15 on this diagram

Flexible Liner (https://www.lsengineers.co.uk/drive-tube-assembly-assembly-for-stihl-fs490c-fs510c-fs560c-clearing-saw.html)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on May 02, 2019, 06:03:54 PM
That looks better than the echo, and I like the cheap replacement cost, as well as the fact it can be replaced at all. Is there any metal component to it, or is it just assumed it wears, and you cheaply replace it?

edit:
Too late now; I already ordered the stuff, but I don't think there's any law that says you can't use Stihl stuff on an echo, and it looks like it'll fit. I'm gonna try it if/when it happens again. 
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on May 03, 2019, 03:34:08 PM
I've never had to replace one in 20 years.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on May 03, 2019, 05:39:22 PM
Interesting. I'd love to see one in person. Maybe if I get another failure... Did some brushcutting with my machete today. I've been hitting stuff at ground level, but leaving the crap in the trees. Since the cutter's down, I figured I'd try to pretty things up. Amazing how much crap's connected to one little vine when you start pulling it out of the tree  :^O  It's starting to look good. The Woodman's Pal machete is great for vine work. You can cut with the hook by shaving, or using a quick draw, or hook a brush clump gently to pull it out of the way. I have one disaster I need to remove with my little saw, then I'll start thinning the useless trees. By then, my brushcutter parts should be in  :^)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on May 03, 2019, 05:50:01 PM
Keep in mind, when I say what I say about my saws, they cut a 'whack' of ground every year. I've cut as much as 110 acres in 6 months and that is every square yard of them acres. And I mark out work strips with ribbon and GPS besides the cut'n. My 'newest' saw is on season 6 now, my old saw is probably 15 years old and I still use it some. Just putting things into perspective. :D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on May 15, 2019, 05:21:25 PM
Machine's paid off, and I made money today \o/

Final thoughts with 30.5hrs of hard use... The tripoint blade's where it's at for the stuff I'm doing, followed by the maxi if a lot of saplings need to be cut. If someone needed one general purpose blade for mixed use, I'd easily recommend the tripoint. Don't see a lot of point in the scratcher blade. It doesn't seem to excel at anything. I did get a shredder blade yesterday, but I'm waiting on the plastic guard I ordered too. I think this machine may a little small for crushing saplings like the Stihls in the previous video, but I'm hoping it works well for briar banks. Also got a string head, but haven't tried that either. It's the kind you put cut pieces of string in. I can't stand bump feed trimmers.


I'm very happy with the purchase, and have had lots of fun tearing up brush. I'd definitely recommend the echo srm410u for a serious machine on a budget. Even with replacing the shaft, I'm waaaay below the cost of a Stihl. If you have money to burn, or can deduct the cost from taxes, a better(bigger?) machine might be worth it, but for a serious home/small farm owner, the echo is a good value that'll get the job done.

Thanks everyone for the help and insight getting this together  :^)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on May 15, 2019, 06:24:00 PM
Congratulations. Now come on up north and cut some serious acreage. :D ;)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on May 15, 2019, 08:04:47 PM
I'd give it a go. I've been enjoying it a lot more than I expected to. Summer will be a good bit less fun though  :^D  I'll be slacking off once it starts getting hot.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Inaotherlife on May 16, 2019, 06:34:32 PM
The clearing saw guy 😀
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Woodcutter_Mo on May 23, 2019, 02:23:13 PM
 I ended up selling my fs90R and a blade to a friend that was needing s good trimmer so I am buying a fs131. If it's half as good as the fs90R has been then I'll be more than happy. 

 I was tempted to try one of those Echo's but don't have a dealer nearby that carries that model. 
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on May 23, 2019, 05:14:01 PM
That fs131 looks like a good machine. I'd like to try a Stihl just to compare with the echo I got. I've used one of their smaller string trimmers, but that was awhile ago, and not the same class of machine. I didn't need a harness for that Stihl.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Woodcutter_Mo on June 05, 2019, 03:26:52 PM
 So far this fs131 seems like a good machine. It does have a bit more power than the fs90R and I am liking the handle bars. I will probably buy another loop handle model for some cutting as they are a bit more nimble. 
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on June 11, 2019, 06:38:08 PM
Since my echo got stolen, I got a new brushcutter from the land of vikings; a Husqvarna 545FR. TIL vikings were built like hobbits. They always looked so impressive in media, but that brushcutter is made for little people. It might end up being a problem. I did a quick trip around my yard knocking some stuff down, and my shoulders were sore after ~.5hr. I think it was from pushing forward trying to get it closer to the ground. I'm hoping some tweaks to the harness, and technique will make things better.

Why the Husky? It was $200 more than the echo($800 before taxes), but the bushings are replaceable in the shaft, it comes with a better harness, it's 3cc bigger, and it came with three cutting attachments. That brings the price a lot closer to the echo, assuming I'd blow another shaft, and the extras included. It was also closer to work, and I just wanted to try something different. I'd have rather gotten a Stihl, but that was $1.3k for the same class of machine. Just couldn't justify it at this time.

It's a nice machine, and more modern looking than the echo. Lots of plastic, with a streamlined appearance. Everything seems to work as it should, and I want to say it has a bit more power, but I haven't run it under the exact same conditions. I also haven't checked the fuel economy. I'll have to do a bunch more cutting to get a feel for that.

Verdict after a brief run? If you told me I was brushcutting all day tomorrow, and I had a choice between the echo or the husky, I'd take the echo without hesitation. It's more comfortable with the longer shaft. I'm hoping my opinion will change after running it awhile, but it is what it is. Sometimes life sucks, and you just have to deal with it.

A bright spot today... My mill delivery got updated to tomorrow instead of Thursday. I'm now thinking of a replacement chainsaw for my 362 that got stolen. Lots of options, and I need to figure out what I'm gonna do. Right now I'm leaning towards a new 20" bar for my 362 that /barely/ made it home with me Friday(close call!), and some kind of cheap 40cc-50cc saw to hide at work. Depending on how the milling goes, I may get a ms661, or maybe just a new lightweight 24" bar for the 362, and use the one I have for milling.

Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on June 11, 2019, 07:32:58 PM
Adjust the harness so your saw is up a little higher on ya. See if that helps. It's a good saw. The boys use the 555. Too bad about the thief running off with your saws.

Take care.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on June 22, 2019, 09:30:00 AM
Update on the Husky 545fr vs echo srm410u... The Husky feels like it has a bit more power, and the antivibe is a bit better than the echo. The short shaft works better in rugged terrain, and is easier to swing. The other side of that, is I could catch a foot with the blade. I don't like that. It was physically impossible to cut myself with the echo. The Husky can't be balanced. The adjustment ranges from nose heavy, to nose really heavy. I prefer the shaft to not touch the ground with hands off; floating just over the ground.

All around, the Husky's a more polished machine. Everything is just a bit nicer than the echo. While everything works well on the echo, it seems like older technology. It does everything the Husky does, but may require more tools and/or fiddling to get it done.

Recommendation? Sticker price on both is very close without sales. The Husky is $200 more, but it comes with three good blades(tripoint, maxi, string), and the stock harness is waaaay better than what comes with the echo. Throw in an echo sales event, and the decision gets more interesting. I think the echo wins for general groundskeeping. If what you're doing is a 'walk in the park', the echo is the machine to have. If you're climbing over logs, dealing with hidden ravines, and going up and down 2:1 slopes, the Husky might be the better choice, but watch your toes!
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on June 22, 2019, 09:56:02 AM
Didn't that 545fr come with a blade guard? I have an older Jonsered unit that has different guards for the saw blade and the 3 pointed blade. You'd have to work pretty hard to manage to get your toes into the blade with the guard in place.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on June 22, 2019, 10:00:01 AM
I'm 6'5". The approved guard for the tripoint doesn't cover much when you're falling down a ditch. I almost caught my toes a couple times yesterday.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on June 22, 2019, 12:46:23 PM
Yes, your above average height isn't easy to fit. I have slipped on ground or tripped lots of times and I'm 5'-10" and my feet was always short of the blade guard. Be careful out there.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: livemusic on June 26, 2019, 10:50:24 PM
Two years ago, I bought a Husky 345FR. I seem to recall that Swampdonkey member helped me with lots of good info. This Husky was promoted as 17 inch. What is 17 inch? I don't know what that means. It is a 45cc saw. Probably a dumb question lol. This machine was not cheap but the Stihl was WAY more expensive and I went Husky. It was enough at $780, and I shopped!

I haven't used mine in a good while. I note that when I use it, the blade and guard tend to ever so slowly move/spin on the shaft and then I have to adjust it. There are four allen-screw bolts holding it. This movement can't be 'normal.' Am I just not tightening these screws enough or could one be defective or what? I think I have almost stripped out some of them (the allen head part) trying to tighten enough. A machine this expensive... this doesn't seem right lol.

Lastly, I have two of the following blades, NIB... Husqvarna Wood Cutting Blade w 1" Arbor Maxi S 200-26.

Do you guys think these are the best for cutting small hardwood saplings? (But, I also note that the blade I have on it is a Renegade blade.) Which one? I forget but I am thinking the Renegade worked best for me? I just can't remember. Then again, I seem to recall that I'd get mad if I hit a little rock and it would dull the blade. We don't have many rocks around here! But it hurts to mess up a perfectly good blade that is cutting good!
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on June 26, 2019, 11:02:21 PM
I'll have to look at mine later to see how the guard goes on. I haven't had movement on it yet. Of the blades I've tried(scratcher, tripoint, maxi), the maxi is easily the best for woody shrubs/trees. If you're doing a mix of everything, the tripoint might be better as long as the wood isn't too thick. Otherwise, it would probably be best to make a couple passes with different blades(or buy another machine, and hire a caddy to carry it for you  :^P  )
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on June 27, 2019, 04:34:35 AM
Quote from: livemusic on June 26, 2019, 10:50:24 PM
Two years ago, I bought a Husky 345FR. I seem to recall that Swampdonkey member helped me with lots of good info. This Husky was promoted as 17 inch. What is 17 inch?
Never heard of that one before. How far apart are the two poles on the handle bar, from grip to throttle?
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on June 27, 2019, 07:33:00 AM
My guess is that 17" refers to the swath cut when using the string trimmer head.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: livemusic on June 27, 2019, 12:59:23 PM
Quote from: John Mc on June 27, 2019, 07:33:00 AM
My guess is that 17" refers to the swath cut when using the string trimmer head.
You are right. I found a page that said it has "17 inches maximum cutting diameter." (I have never used it as a trimmer, bought it as a brush cutter. Saw it promoted as commercial grade. The Husky page is here and doesn't mention the 17 inches part: 345FR brush cutter (https://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/clearing-saws/345fr/966016002/)

SwampDonkey, the width of the handlebars... I measured as 20" inside handle to inside handle.

lsskllr, what is a "scratcher" blade?
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on June 27, 2019, 02:02:25 PM
A scratcher blade looks like it could go on a circular saw. It has numerous "dorsal fin" teeth around the circumference. Tedious to sharpen, and not really ideal for anything. For pure wood, the maxi will take bigger stems, and for brushy, weedy stuff, something like a tripoint will tear it up quicker.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on June 27, 2019, 02:57:10 PM
I hate cutting red osier dogwood and hazels. :D

thinner: Do I have to cut all them stems?
boss : just 2 m around the crop trees
thinner: That's what we're spacing the trees at.

:D :D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on June 27, 2019, 07:54:17 PM
Maxi Blade: sold under several different brand names, but all of them seem to be made in Sweden. In my opinion, this is the best blade for cutting down saplings. Also easy to sharpen with a 7/32" round file (I tend to use the Oregon chainsaw filing guide which clips on to the round file to keep the file at the right depth. I'm not aware of other guides that work for these. Freehand filing is also possible - and to me, easier than free-hand filing a chainsaw.)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Husqvarna_Maxi_blade.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1486569366)
 


Husqvarna "Scarlet" blade - Stihl sells a similar blade called a "Circular Saw Blade - Chisel Tooth":  At first glance, it looks similar to the Maxi Blade, but there are subtle differences in the shape of the tooth/gullet, and the steel seems to be cheaper than the Maxi blade. Sharpens similarly to the Maxi Blade. IMO, this is "second best" for cutting saplings.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Husqvarna_Scarlet_blade.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1486569679)

Scratcher Blade: I had one. I could not find anything that I liked cutting with this blade. It's also a pain in the neck to sharpen. I threw it out. Didn't even want to give it away and curse someone else with that blade.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/circularscratch.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1561679429)

Someone also sells blades that have chainsaw teeth around the circumference. I didn't like it much, but maybe someone with a more powerful clearing saw would think differently?

I've never tried the Renegade blades, so I have no idea how they would cut. They look as though they would be a pain in the neck to sharpen.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on June 28, 2019, 03:16:47 AM
Stihl has a universal file guide with all the angles shown on it. I use one of them. I don't think you can get the old 'Universal' file guide with the set tool that they sold for years. I think you can in Finland and Sweden though. And maybe Mcculloch? Are they part of Husqvarna now?

FLO008 - File / Setting Tool - Chainsaw Accessories (http://www.mcculloch.com/int/accessories/chainsaw-accessories/file-setting-tool/577615708)

old guide

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_Brush_File_Guide.jpg)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on June 28, 2019, 05:23:25 AM
I have the Husqvarna set tool/file guide. Looks like your pic. Ordered it from amazon.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on June 28, 2019, 06:46:06 AM
My saw came with a separate tooth setting tool, so I never bothered ordering the all-in-one model. It certainly would be handy. I probably don't check the tooth set often enough as a result.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on June 28, 2019, 07:08:08 AM
Most of the time I don't use it, the rocks have the blade all beat up by the time you'd check it. :D
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Allar on June 28, 2019, 09:07:11 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on June 28, 2019, 03:16:47 AM
Stihl has a universal file guide with all the angles shown on it. I use one of them. I don't think you can get the old 'Universal' file guide with the set tool that they sold for years. I think you can in Finland and Sweden though. And maybe Mcculloch? Are they part of Husqvarna now?

FLO008 - File / Setting Tool - Chainsaw Accessories (http://www.mcculloch.com/int/accessories/chainsaw-accessories/file-setting-tool/577615708)

old guide

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_Brush_File_Guide.jpg)
You can get that tool around here. Either under Husqvarna's name or under 'Universal by mcculloch's name. And yes mcculloch is owned by Husqvarna.

Imo the Mcculloch/Universal is basically what Partner used to be in Europe.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on June 29, 2019, 10:11:49 AM
I looked at my machine, and couldn't make much of the head with the crud on it, and I didn't want to disassemble it. Looking at the manual, it appears to be a friction fit by tightening down the allen bolts. I haven't had issues with it turning, but I wonder if your bolts are shaking loose during use? Do they feel a bit looser when you tighten them? If so, perhaps you could try some loctite when you put them on. I'd probably go with the heavy hold formula. On my echo, the shield bolts kept coming loose, and I tried medium hold first, and they still kept coming loose. The heavy hold kept them in place.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Orange on July 12, 2019, 10:08:12 AM
Hi. First post for me as I just signed up here and glad I have finally done so.

I'm a few months in with an Echo 410U and have a few questions. Most pressing is sharpening the blade. My local shop doesn't have Maxi blades in 1" arbor so I picked up a Husky Scarlet 225 mm. Package says to use a 7/32" round file but it looks much to large. I did try to sharpen a couple teeth with it but it takes a lot of material off the bottom and the point of the cutting tooth before ever reaching in to the back of the gullet. I compared with a few other file sizes and it looks like 5/32" is a pretty close match. Has anyone else experienced anything like this? I'm no wizard with a round file but I've managed to keep saw chains cutting long enough to think I should have a passable understanding of what I'm doing. I'd post some pictures but I assume I won't be able to just yet.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on July 12, 2019, 11:06:24 AM
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Orange. When you get a chance, fill out your profile so we know where you are from.

I use a 7/32 round file on my Scarlet blades when I had them, and now use it on my Maxi blades. I don't recall having the problem you noted with fit, but it's been a while since I started with a new blade. I would not be surprised if the first sharpen did need to reshape the tooth a bit. They were probably sharpened with a grinding wheel that had a profile slightly different from a round file.

Using the file guide as shown in the photo posted by SwampDonkey will help assure you have the file at the right height. If you can't find one of those (with the built-in tooth setter), a similar guide for sharpening 3/8" pitch chainsaw chain which uses a 7/32" file works fine as well. They are sold in most chainsaw shops, as well as many hardware stores or "big box" stores which also sell chainsaws.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/2596/Oregon_File_holder.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1536926452)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Orange on July 12, 2019, 11:18:04 AM
Quote from: lxskllr on June 22, 2019, 09:30:00 AM
Update on the Husky 545fr vs echo srm410u... The Husky feels like it has a bit more power, and the antivibe is a bit better than the echo. The short shaft works better in rugged terrain, and is easier to swing. The other side of that, is I could catch a foot with the blade. I don't like that. It was physically impossible to cut myself with the echo. The Husky can't be balanced. The adjustment ranges from nose heavy, to nose really heavy. I prefer the shaft to not touch the ground with hands off; floating just over the ground.

All around, the Husky's a more polished machine. Everything is just a bit nicer than the echo. While everything works well on the echo, it seems like older technology. It does everything the Husky does, but may require more tools and/or fiddling to get it done.

Recommendation? Sticker price on both is very close without sales. The Husky is $200 more, but it comes with three good blades(tripoint, maxi, string), and the stock harness is waaaay better than what comes with the echo. Throw in an echo sales event, and the decision gets more interesting. I think the echo wins for general groundskeeping. If what you're doing is a 'walk in the park', the echo is the machine to have. If you're climbing over logs, dealing with hidden ravines, and going up and down 2:1 slopes, the Husky might be the better choice, but watch your toes!
Do you know how much shorter the Husky shaft is vs the Echo? I'm only 6' and when I run the Echo with a trimmer head to clean up around the yard I have to stoop down with knees bent. The handlebar tower isn't very tall so if I lower the saw on the harness, the handlebars are too low. Usually I'm cutting brush or mowing overgrown field so not concerned then with a nice manicured look, so it's not a big deal. I agree the Echo seems to be striking a balance as a professional trimmer that is brush capable. It's vicious with a string on it. For heavy and larger diameter brush though, which is main reason I got it, I don't have much confidence the drive train will hold up for long. Your experience has not helped.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Orange on July 12, 2019, 11:27:25 AM
Quote from: John Mc on July 12, 2019, 11:06:24 AM
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Orange. When you get a chance, fill out your profile so we know where you are from.

I use a 7/32 round file on my Scarlet blades when I had them, and now use it on my Maxi blades. I don't recall having the problem you noted with fit, but it's been a while since I started with a new blade. I would not be surprised if the first sharpen did need to reshape the tooth a bit. They were probably sharpened with a grinding wheel that had a profile slightly different from a round file.
Thanks for the welcome! And I'll do that.
Turns out I can post images, so the following two are attempts to show how the specified 7/32" round file fits the tooth. I suspected it may have something to do with the shape of the factory grind as it's not perfectly circular. But still this file strikes me as much too large.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/56260/IMG-1597.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1562945029)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/56260/IMG-1601.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1562945029)
 
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Orange on July 12, 2019, 11:29:36 AM
This is with a 5/32" grinding stone just for comparison...


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/56260/IMG-1599.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1562945029)
 

Think I should proceed with the 7/32 as spec'd?
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on July 12, 2019, 11:29:45 AM
I couldn't say exactly, and looking up raw number specs don't tell the whole story due to variables like the motor mount length, but I'd say the Husky is at least a good 6" shorter.

I'm surprised you can't get a comfortable height/length on it. Perhaps try rotating the handlebars so they're more vertical on the shaft.

I wouldn't worry too much about the longevity of the echo. I was using it really hard. If you end up blowing a tube like I did, look into getting Stihl bushings to put in your tube. I didn't get a chance to try it, but I think it would work, and it's cheap enough to give it a try.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on July 12, 2019, 11:57:07 AM
Quote from: Orange on July 12, 2019, 11:29:36 AM
Think I should proceed with the 7/32 as spec'd?
I would use the 7/32". They spec'd it for a reason. Either will probably work, if held at the correct height in relation to the tooth, the gullet will be smaller with the 5/32". Anything is probably better than a dull blade.
It looks as though the 7/32" file may be riding a bit high in the photos you included, so it's possible you will need to sharpen down as well as back. Using one of the guides picture makes sharpening a no-brainer: it's easier and faster than chainsaw chain.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Orange on July 12, 2019, 11:59:55 AM
Wow...6" is a lot. I had the same trouble looking at specs. Echo says 60.2". I thought I've seen Husky shaft lengths reported somewhere but can't find them now. For other markets it looks like Husky also has the "RX" designation (vs FX or FR) which have longer shafts (but I don't know how much) and different angle gear head for trimming but not in the US.

Thanks for the tip on rotating the bars back more. I think I tried that but I'll play around with it some more and see if it helps.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Orange on July 12, 2019, 12:03:59 PM
Quote from: John Mc on July 12, 2019, 11:57:07 AM
I would use the 7/32". They spec'd it for a reason. Either will probably work, if held at the correct height in relation to the tooth, the gullet will be smaller with the 5/32". Anything is probably better than a dull blade.
It looks as though the 7/32" file may be riding a bit high in the photos you included, so it's possible you will need to sharpen down as well as back. Using one of the guides picture makes sharpening a no-brainer: it's easier and faster than chainsaw chain.
Thanks I'll give it a shot. I assume I should file "down" first until the file is low enough in relation to the top of the tooth, before filing back into the gullet? And are the guides pictured any different then the chain filing guides (which I have) besides having the tooth setting notch?
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on July 12, 2019, 12:25:44 PM
Quote from: Orange on July 12, 2019, 12:03:59 PM
Quote from: John Mc on July 12, 2019, 11:57:07 AM
I would use the 7/32". They spec'd it for a reason. Either will probably work, if held at the correct height in relation to the tooth, the gullet will be smaller with the 5/32". Anything is probably better than a dull blade.
It looks as though the 7/32" file may be riding a bit high in the photos you included, so it's possible you will need to sharpen down as well as back. Using one of the guides picture makes sharpening a no-brainer: it's easier and faster than chainsaw chain.
Thanks I'll give it a shot. I assume I should file "down" first until the file is low enough in relation to the top of the tooth, before filing back into the gullet? And are the guides pictured any different then the chain filing guides (which I have) besides having the tooth setting notch?
The file portion of those guides are identical to those used for a chainsaw - at least as far as I can tell. The tooth setting tool that came with my Jonsered is separate from the guide. I've used my chainsaw guide on both with good results.
Your fist sharpening will likely take a little bit more effort due to the reshaping needed, but after that it should go very quickly.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: Orange on July 15, 2019, 03:38:12 PM
Thanks for all the help, folks! I'm really busy next few weeks but as soon as I get the chance I'll have a go at this blade with 7/32" stone and file and see if I can make it cut like new. I'll try to remember to report back if anything noteworthy comes up.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on September 09, 2019, 08:08:29 PM
Finally got a chance to use my shredder blade. That thing's the bee's knees for cutting vines and brambles. It's a refinement over the tripoint for crushing them down. I'd consider switching to it as my general purpose blade, but you have to be a little more careful with ground clearance. For a day cutting leggy stuff though, I haven't used anything better.
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: John Mc on September 09, 2019, 08:53:03 PM
Shredder blade?
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: lxskllr on September 09, 2019, 09:01:40 PM
It's a two pointed blade with the end of the tines turned down. Mine's a Chinese version(probably), and doesn't have the curves, but basically this...

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49990/StihlShredderBlade_FT_01.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1568077264)
Title: Re: Clearing Saws
Post by: SwampDonkey on September 10, 2019, 03:33:43 PM
I guess the lawn mower type blade that those guys were using to chew down small saplings. ;D