Building my dream Shop

[ekutanoglu]

Hi Jay&Geeg,
I wanted to contribute your discussion from Turkey with some photos about timber frames in Turkey. With my limited knowledge on the topic, I can say that we have two types of timber frames here.
First timber frames with "Çantı" technique. Çantı timber frame is similar to or combination of your timber frame and plank and log buildings which uses mortise and tenon with no nail. It's difficult to see examples of Çantı and is a technique older than "Hımış" Jay mentioned.

Hımış timber frames use shorter timbers with long nails-barn spikes and can be seen in everywhere  in Turkey (including Kemaliye which is a county in the east Anatolia)and throughout the Europe. This is an infill system; wall cavity is filled with cob, brick, plaster etc and whitewashed.

I created albums for both.

Unfortunately,  Turkey is a country surrounded with concrete buildings now and  Çantı and Hımış timber frames were left for dead although we have some legislations to protect them . And the most important point is there is no any resource, workshop  to learn/remember  these techniques, at least I could find any in Turkey.  Fortunately, we have Sobon, Benson and Shappel . 
Regards

[Jim_Rogers]

ekutanoglu:

Welcome, can you post a link to your gallery here on the forestry forum where you have your pictures?

Thanks.

Jim Rogers

[beenthere]

Maybe post pics in your own gallery here on the forum. ;)

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Welcome Ekutanoglu,

It is an honor and exciting 8) to share the forum with you.  I would love if you would start a New post topic called: "Turkish Timber Framing," or I could and you could join in.  I'm confident that folks here would love to see timber frames from that region and discuss them.

I, for one, would love to here more about you and your interest in timber framing.  You mention not finding any, have you looked in the mountain regions. There are some "elders," up in the mountains that still can cut frames in both "Hımış" and ""Çantı" style.  My friend Erikin and you should try to make contact.  I would love to share a conversation with both of you.  Erikin would love to start a historical interpretive program in Turkish Indigenous folk architecture and I know, when he comes to visit his father there, he goes to the mountains to look for programming locations.

Please give us a link to your photos or set up an album here at the forestry forum and again karşılama!

Regards,

Jay

[ekutanoglu]

Many thanks Jay for karşılama  ,

I can start a new topic on Turkish Timber Frame if you guys interested but let me start with a couple of pictures for now. Actually I wanted to add them to this post but I could not achieve. I copied the link of my gallery I created in the forum. I hope it works.

https://forestryforum.com/gallery/index.php?cat=29612

Actually I have a 8-5 job and my interest and knowledge on timber framing is only in theory, limited with reading books, forums (for now). My interest has started after reading a blog about building timber frame house, as I remember it was "massiehouse" a member of FF as well, then discovered this forum and stuck on.
I would be happy contacting with you and your friends Erkin as we have common interest.

and Jim,

I forgot to say in my previous e mail; "Fortunately we have forestry forum and Jim Rogers."
Many thanks for your effort to share your knowledge on TF.
Best regards

[Jay C. White Cloud]

I'm waiting for a book that Erikin has on traditional architecture of Turkey.  I would love to know any books you know of on the craft.  There doesn't seem to be any on the technical aspects of the different forms.  I have hinted to Erikin about writing one.  As our conversation develops, or you see something of interest, we could start a new post.

Regards,

Jay

[thecfarm]

I looked in your gallery earlier. Nice looking buildings. maybe this will help.

Go to your gallery, Click onto your album,than click onto whatever picture you want, it will get bigger, then scroll down a little to find, Insert Image In post, click onto that, say yes and that is it. I like to hit the enter key at least once or twice to move the picture down away from a post. The enter key really helps to leave some white space if posting more than one picture. Somewheres I think it says to add 10,000 to your user number or something like that to make a click-able icon to your gallery under your user name. use the preview button to see how it looks.

[ekutanoglu]

Many thanks Thecfarm, I noted this.
By the way, Geeg's shop, I love it and that is also my dream. I think it's time to go back the "dream shop" after opening a paragraph for TFs in a different country.
Regards

[Geeg]

Springtime came and we found 2" of water in the basement during the thaw, I had mentioned this on one of my other post about building a house on a current foundation. Before the main sub floor was installed the front wall was found bowed so they tore it down and replaced the block., new weeping tile was installed and attached to the old clay tile and back filled. Note to self, don't ever re build on an existing foundation.

We needed to install a new septic system since the old one was found to far gone and had not been taken care of over the years, this was a big project that we had not taken into account and was quite costly. Since the equipment was there we decided to dig up the foundation and replace all the weeping tile since it had obviously failed. This project was also quite time consuming and came at another unexpected expense (the joys of building a house, I don't like surprises). Once the foundation was dug up, we noticed right away that the block wall's had cracks and the weeping tile in places was completely blocked with clay, this happened due to the fact that when the foundation was originally installed, they did not back fill with stone and sand. The foundation wall cracks were parged after removing the tar and a rubber spray on coat was applied to make the foundation wall water tight. New weeping tile was installed and gravel and sand was was used to back fill. This was a huge job due to the clay and the rain that we had had while trying to complete this job.


Front wall has a bow in it, was removed and replaced with new block, footing was also
extended about a 12"

Wall being removed, fast job of it with that equipment.

New block installed and ready for taring.

Diging for the septic system, the original one was located on the other side of the house.

This company made fast work of installing the septic system, was still expensive though

Ready to lay the tile bed.

1500 gallon tank installed.

Sewage tubes running through the foundation into the house.

Old cay weeping tile, some were completely blocked with clay

Foundation dug up, septic system is now installed.

Notice the water at the footings, that stuff was like glue to walk in. It was a nightmare that
I didn't think was going to end.

Used some scrap wood to lay down so that we could walk on it. Helped a little.

Our temporary gang plank to get into the house, two weeks of using this.

Walls cleaned and re parged. We ended up having to pump water out since there was
nowhere to go.

The sealer spray was added, this stuff stretches 1800% and then returns to its normal state.

Membrane being applied with a spray gun.

Dimpled delta wrap being applied.

Weeping tile installed, gravel layed down and the insulation installed then the downspout
big O installed.



Sono tubes installed for the sun-room and wrap around deck.



Temporary access installed and graded.

Rough grading completed, glad that it's almost over!

Crushed rock added to driveway and driveway re-routed to a new access.

All the sono tubes installed and ready for pouring.

[Jim_Rogers]

I'm not sure of your timing of foundation back filling, but I thought you didn't ever back fill until the first floor deck was installed to prevent the back filling process from bowing the walls?

And it looks like you've done just about everything you could do to prevent water from getting into your basement through the walls now. I hope it works for you.

Thanks for all the pictures.

Jim Rogers

[thecfarm]

Where did all that water come from?? Looks like you have a few springs. But kinda looks like your house sits up on a sight incline. Have alot of clay? I'm on a small hill,nothing drains down to me,it's all down hill from here.  ;D

[samandothers]

Geeg,
Thank you for taking the time to post this information and pictures.  It is really informative.  How is the interior framing going or has that been on hold for the exterior septic and water issue? 
Looks like you should have a dry basement in the future.

[Geeg]

Hi Jim, Because of the load of the TF, the engineer requested that (if memory serves me correct) every 4 feet there was rebar installed vertically in the block and it was filled to the top with cement to reinforce the walls. The contractor figured that it was ok to carefully back fill the one wall with sand but I do see your point though, guess we got lucky?

Hi thecfarm, we have an artisan well about 50-75 behind the house, it comes out of the ground and in the winter, it never freezes and is always wet. There is all clay around the house, I think this was a big problem with the basement flooding due to the fact that there was no where for the water to drain since the weeping tile was plugged in spots and the clay was back filled  up to the foundation wall instead of using gravel at the base and sand above to get the water to drain down to the new weeping tile. As of today, there is no water in the basement, and it is dry as a bone. Hopefully this will last for my lifetime!

Hi samandothers, Yes, we unfortunately had to put the interior framing on hold due to these issues but it wasn't long before we got to the framing. Will dig these pics out and post them.

[thecfarm]

Sand-gravel around a foundation will really help. And the clay drains will really help too. Mine was back filled with sand. But as I said everything drains away from me. Sounds like you have water around your place.

[frwinks]

Looks great Geeg.   We built ours on existing foundation too and the last set of pics looks waaay too familiar :D

[Geeg]

Hi thecfarm, I guess they didn't lay gravel and sand back in the day? but yes this is that way that it should be to get rid of the water and yes we have a spring just behind the house and it drains right towards it but looks like we have fixed the issues.

Hi frwinks, Did you have to do the same water issues? what was the age of the existing foundation?.

[Geeg]

Now that the septic system and the foundation issues were finally fixed, we could now concentrate on the interior framing. The drawings had to go back to the architect since the initial "shop design" then turned into our "retirement shack". We decided on a 2 bedroom 2 bathroom (well my wife did, I just paid the bill), the interior walls were standard 2x4 studded walls with sound proofing insulation. During this time we also installed 1 1/2 foam sheeting in the basement interior walls and then added 2x4 studded walls that allowed us to install an additional 6" of roxul R22 insulation.


Started with the basement rigid foam installation, panels were glued to the block wall
and sealed with tape.

Utility room with 200amp power supply, nothing fancy.

Stacked roxul insulation waiting to be installed.

Main floor bathroom and hallway on the right, heating duct leading to the second floor.

Heating duct installation

Drywall on the roof was installed before the roof went up.

Double door will lead to the outdoor sun-room.



Second floor framing completed, little tricky cutting to fit around the beams.

First floor framing completed.

That light was great!, it was cold outside and this is all we used to keep the house warm at 1000watts



Me wondering what to do next?



Upstairs shower base install, both bathrooms have showers, no tubs. Figured its easier
to walk in than stepping over a bathtub when we get older ;)

All electrical and heating is now in.

Downstairs bathroom was completed first as we needed this.

Just have a plastic sheet for privacy, hey it works.

Finished the upstairs bathroom however the drywall and paint has not been completed. Used
all black slate 1'x2' tiles and in floor heating for both bathrooms. Also had the taps installed
as you enter the shower so ya don't get wet before the water has a chance to heat up.

Main floor bathroom, minus the toilet.

Since we don't have a kitchen yet, needed to boil some water so I improvised.

Thought I would throw in some food since I know how many of you like it. Got to have a nice meal after a hard days work.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

That is awesome.  Is the whole space going to be "shop?"

[frwinks]

wow, black shower tile... looks like our wives have similar tastes.. :D

The old cottage was built in the 70's, no expenses spared back then with a 6" concrete floor and all.  It was a pain to jackhammer through all that crete as our frame required a number of point load footings inside, and underpinning of existing footings   Much fun for many nights ;D




Poor dog thought all that work was just so he could bury his pink teddy


We had water problems. No cracks in the foundation, but we're on clay, and that stuff mixed with many springs around us (we're in the Headwaters afterall :D ) can plug up weeping tile in no time.  When I redid it, I used landscaping fabric, and pipe with a sock on it, plus backfilled with stone all the way up to grade.  Like you, I don't want to do this job ever again on this house, so I used Blueseal, and the Delta dimple board together.

while down there I added 4" of xps all the way up and around

On the inside, I used 2" xps on walls and slab, last winter we heated the whole house (all three floors) with a 1500W plug in heater located in the basement ;D.  This winter so far we're running a 2000W 240v heater on the 750W setting....we're spoiling ourselves :D
When you're back from the jungle, we should get together and swap some stories :D 

[Geeg]

That is awesome.  Is the whole space going to be "shop?"

Hi Jay, the main living space which includes the kitchen, dinning room, family room will be in 2/3rds of the building, all open @ approx 900sq ft.

[Geeg]

Hi frwinks,

Man, you know what I am talking about!. What a job you had to do. We got a little lucky in that we had to install 3 point load footings and 9 treated (2ply) 2"x8" support columns anchored to the existing block foundation wall. I was really happy to hear that we didn't need to underpin for the extra support. Looks like you did it right and it looks great! and 4" of xps outside and 2" inside, ya that will keep it warm.

Swapping (what the heck did I get myself into now) stories sounds like a plan. The wife and I get back 2 times per year, usually in the summer and fall, winter is a little to cold for us since I think our blood has thinned out over the years from being here. Your location is the Hills, is that the Horseshoe Valley area?, That basement looks just like ours, have any pics of the place, would love to see them.

Cheers
Geeg

[frwinks]

a little south west, Hockley Valley area
I have some more pics in my gallery, plus a few threads on the forum ;)
double cheers

[WindyAcres]

Great pictures&project!! Thanks for sharing, I really enjoyed it!

All the best,
Fabian

PS
I would have build that house on a new foundation (no basement). But thats just me. I finished a 26x30 foundation (4 feet frost wall, lots of rebar, all insulated, 6 inch slab, double wire mesh) a few months ago. Did it all myself for 10,000 CAD in about 10 days. Would have cost twice as much if somebody else had done it. I did well, it was fun! I will put a timber frame hybrid on it.. It will be a workshop/woodturning studio + there is a second full floor.. I might post some pictures here too next year..

[Geeg]

a little south west, Hockley Valley area
I have some more pics in my gallery, plus a few threads on the forum ;)
double cheers

Hey frwinks, Wow, you have an awesome place there, looks like you have invested a lot of blood sweat and tears over the years, wish I had your talent

Looks like your not to far from me, will let you know when we get back into town. Hope you drink beer!

Cheers!
Geeg

[Geeg]

Great pictures&project!! Thanks for sharing, I really enjoyed it!

All the best,
Fabian

PS
I would have build that house on a new foundation (no basement). But thats just me. I finished a 26x30 foundation (4 feet frost wall, lots of rebar, all insulated, 6 inch slab, double wire mesh) a few months ago. Did it all myself for 10,000 CAD in about 10 days. Would have cost twice as much if somebody else had done it. I did well, it was fun! I will put a timber frame hybrid on it.. It will be a workshop/woodturning studio + there is a second full floor.. I might post some pictures here too next year..

Hi Fabian, thanks for the compliment. Your project sounds really interesting. I plan on constructing my shop the same way, just waiting for the drawings to be finished so I can get the building permit issued. I was thinking of digging the foundation out myself but since I don't want to mess it up, I have decided to have a guy dig it for me, will cost about $600 and he does this all the time. I have planned on going with in-floor heating and a SIP construction with no timbers (don't want the wife confiscating this one too). Keep us posted and make sure to post some pics for us.

Cheers,
Geeg