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12V Starter generators..... and ...... How to cook a pig!

Started by woodbowl, February 27, 2006, 12:49:11 AM

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woodbowl

I've put a regular auto 12V starter on my sawmill to help as a drag back. I will probably have problems with it later on so I'm searching for a better motor to do this. A friend on mine has a starter generator on his golf cart. It looks very simular to some drag back and debarker motors that I've seen on various band mills.
    I guess the name "starter generator" is throwing me. I'm told it does both. I don't need both but if the price is right it's not going to hurt. On the other hand, just a starter of this same group type may pack more function for thr price as well.
I just need a couple of motors that will serve as a drag back and debarker. The Hitachi starter generator part #1427060220 states 12V @ .9hp. It has an extended shaft to accept a pully. Another thing that would be nice is varable speed. I can't tell from the info that I've pulled up if it is going to serve my needs or not. http://www.buggiesunlimited.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=starter_starters_club_car 
I understand that ebay sells a lot of different types as well.
   
  What am I looking for in the discriptions as I search for a forward/reverse motor? And what will it take to provide varible speed for it?  Thanks in advance.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Radar67

Olen, have you considered using a speed control from something like a shop smith or drill press? I know most of them are 120v, but there has to be something similar for 12v.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

isassi

The starter generators I have seen WB, were generators adapted to become motors when energized and of course, make power when the engine is running. I am not 100% sure, but I think any older generator will become a motor when you hook the field terminal up to juice. I know that is a shade tree way to check if the generator was working. I beleive on our Cub Cadet lawnmower, it used a prestolite generator to crank it up via belt to the front of the motor. Nice quiet, wear free way to start a motor.

highpockets

Woodbowl there are a lot of configurations out there on d.c motors and motor-generators.  The old motor-generator used on the Cub Cadet lawnmowers were a kind of half effort at accomplishing two things. Personally I found them weak as a starter. 

Basically both have a field winding and an armature winding.  On generators the field winding is usually a smaller wire and is used to excite or magnetize the poles that induce a larger force that is picked up by the rotating armature which is the output of the generator.  Motors (series wound) usually have the same pieces but the armature and field are of the same size.  A starter motor is usually a series wound motor and the speed can be controlled by varying the voltage.  The problem is that they do not like variable loads and can be a problem if constant speed is needed. 

There is a kind of new device out there called a PWM (pulse width modulation) controller.  They are for controlling d.c motors.  I have not tinkered with any d.c. stuff in a few years except stepper motors for some cnc machines.   

I did watch a WM Sawmill the other day and became interested in what they are using to drive their sawhead feed.  It is pretty impressive but I do not have a schematic nor any info on it.  I feel that they are using either a store bought ???? PWM or one they have had someone design for them.  I'd consider looking at some of the d.c motors offered by Surplus Center and some kind of PWM.  I really  want to look into this same thing after the projects I have going on are finished.
Louisiana Country boy
homemade mill, 20 h.p. Honda & 4 h.p. for hydraulics.  8 hydraulic circuits, loads, clamps, rotates, etc.

Fla._Deadheader


We use a PWM on our mill for feed control. Also, take any decent size 12V DC motor and insulate the ground set of brushes from the case. Then, you have a reversible motor. We have a couple I did that way on Homey.  ;)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

woodbowl

I must admit, I don't know enough about these types of motors, how to match up PWM controllers or where to get them. I have searched without much success. Surplus Center doesn't seem to have it either. I've done several google searches but don't see anything in the 3/4 HP range. HELP.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

jpgreen

Pulse Width Modulation... used to use that on my synthisizer back in the 70's.

Very informative deepockets, uh I mean highpockets.  Now I know why you make the BIG bucks..  :D

-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

highpockets

Jp, I mean JPgreen if you call Social Security big bucks, you must live in a low cost of living area.  I just bought an 80 lb hog and had to pay $ 1.00 per lb.  That has to last all summer. 

When I get a minute I am going to look into this d.c controll thing.  We'll get to the bottom of it.
Louisiana Country boy
homemade mill, 20 h.p. Honda & 4 h.p. for hydraulics.  8 hydraulic circuits, loads, clamps, rotates, etc.

jpgreen

Dick is that 80lb hog all bacon?..  ???....... :D
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

highpockets

As a matter of fact I told the guy I wanted it all in pork chops.  He sent it in cracklins. Or was that chitlins?  Billy and I cut him up leaving the two shoulders, the middlins, and hind quarters.  I may cook the two shoulders tomorrow.   I really need to make a Coon-ass Microwave but haven't gotten around to it.   You know roundtoit? 
Louisiana Country boy
homemade mill, 20 h.p. Honda & 4 h.p. for hydraulics.  8 hydraulic circuits, loads, clamps, rotates, etc.

isassi

Maybe you could ship the knuckles and the squeal to good old JPGreen....let him have a little taste... :D

jpgreen

OK this I gotta know...

I didn't even know what a "Coonass" was til I asked a friend on the cast boolit forum board couple of weeks ago, but what in tarnation is a "Coon-ass Microwave?"..  :o.......... ;D
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

jpgreen

THis is no pork butt may help:

Pork

- it's snowin' back here..  :o
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

highpockets

A cajun microwave is a simple wooden box with a thin metal lining in it. The pig goes down in the box. On top there is a heavy metal tray that slips down in the box some 3". A fire is built on the top (in the tray) and the pig is cooked from the heat on top.   


The motor on Ebay is nice but I am looking at my junk yard for my stuff.  I am a poor man. My grandmother said poor folks have poor ways. 

Where is my sawmill?????????. JP
Louisiana Country boy
homemade mill, 20 h.p. Honda & 4 h.p. for hydraulics.  8 hydraulic circuits, loads, clamps, rotates, etc.

jpgreen

edited


I just sold my other (Woodbug) mill today. To a GIRL! Not more than 1/2 an hour ago.  She's gonna be a woman sawyer..  ;D 8)

I'm gonna get her to join the FF..  ;D  Then she can drive y'all crazy instead of me..  ::) :D :D
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

woodbowl

When yall' get that pig cooked, how bout' helpin me figure out how to put this starter on.  :D
   It seems to me that a fire on top will take a while to cook.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Buzz-sawyer

Woodbowl
Sounds like you are looking for a 12v winch motor (reversible)...there is a guy on ebay selling for around 150-200 bucks.....
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Fla._Deadheader

All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

woodbowl

Harold, maybe I just can't find it on line from surplus center. I know you got their catalog cause we thumed through it. If you find what I'm looking for, give me an item #. I know you took yer catalog to CR. ;)
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

highpockets

Woodbowl,

I am sorry about getting off on this hog thing.  If you don't  mind I'd like to blame JP.   

As for the 12 volt drives, I am really interested in these.  I think Deadheader has something PWM driven.   I have been looking on the net for PWM schematics but only find ones with small i.c's that will drive a few amps.  A ball park guess is that you need something with some 50 amp capacity.   I have a wheel chair here that was running perfect before I tore it apart.  I haven't looked at it much since they seem to be 24 volt motors as best I can remember. 

They might not like it but I think they quickest way may be to find someone that has a WM MIll and the schematic or driver manufacture.  I'll have to give them credit, they have a good sawhead drive.  I doubt that they build it in-house.   Of course if JP had brought me his mill like he promised, I know wouldn't I ? 
Louisiana Country boy
homemade mill, 20 h.p. Honda & 4 h.p. for hydraulics.  8 hydraulic circuits, loads, clamps, rotates, etc.

Fla._Deadheader


Olen. Don't know whatcher typin OR whatcher smokin, but, here's the item number. Price is gone up after 2 years.  ::) ::) ::)  :D :D :D :D

  Item# 10-1839
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

woodbowl

Got it! .... It pulled up fine for me that time. I've been searching 12 volt motors and came up with gearmotors and such. I've seen that motor on ebay and round about other sites. 8000 RPM spooked me a bit so I started looking for other motors. Matching up the right PWM is the next step.   Thanks.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Fla._Deadheader


We use that motor to power the Hydraulics. Geared it down with pulleys and belt.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

jpgreen

Quote from: Fla._Deadheader on March 01, 2006, 08:10:52 AM

Highpockets... Don't know whatcher typin OR whatcher smokin, but...

Cracklins.  Cracklins is wacklins..  :D :D :D
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Kbeitz

Check tarp gearmotors on E-bay.
If you dont want a controler check out the Z-max gearbox.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

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