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Author Topic: Hydraulic experts help needed.  (Read 514 times)

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Offline Percy

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Hydraulic experts help needed.
« on: June 13, 2018, 09:26:39 AM »
I have a used pto driven hydraulic power pack that I need to convert to belt driven for this application. The PTO shaft is a skinny little thing with tiny ujoints similar to what you would find on a tractor steering column so I m assuming it was meant to run under 1000 rpm.  I have the pulleys configured for just under 600 rpm. My question is, how can I determine wether the the pump can handle the side load of a belt as opposed to direct/shaft driven?? Bearings, bushings? Thx
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Offline Cutting Edge

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Re: Hydraulic experts help needed.
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2018, 09:43:24 AM »
... how can I determine wether the the pump can handle the side load of a belt as opposed to direct/shaft driven??

Bearings, bushings? Thx
Percy,

If the pump still has a nomenclature, usually specs on side load will be listed online.  If not, you can always call the pump manufacturer.

IMHO - I wouldn't chance the side load on the pump.  A shaft in (2) pillow block bearings w/ Love Joy ( or similar) couplers and run the pump inline.  Let the intermediate shaft/bearings take the stress.

The inline drive might make it simpler also, by eliminating the driveshaft you already have.  Less moving parts, less to go maintain/replace.

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Offline Percy

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Re: Hydraulic experts help needed.
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2018, 09:54:36 AM »
... how can I determine wether the the pump can handle the side load of a belt as opposed to direct/shaft driven??

Bearings, bushings? Thx
Percy,

If the pump still has a nomenclature, usually specs on side load will be listed online.  If not, you can always call the pump manufacturer.

IMHO - I wouldn't chance the side load on the pump.  A shaft in (2) pillow block bearings w/ Love Joy ( or similar) couplers and run the pump inline.  Let the intermediate shaft/bearings take the stress.

The inline drive might make it simpler also, by eliminating the driveshaft you already have.  Less moving parts, less to go maintain/replace.
I cant find anything on this unit. It was off an older IHC single axle dump truck. I will try to do as you suggest with the intermediate shaft/lovejoy connector. Just gonna take some "engineering" to make it fit with belt tensioning and all. Thanks for the input/suggestion  ;D
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Hydraulic experts help needed.
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2018, 01:55:04 PM »
Truck mount PTO that are hung under the body NEVER use belts.. Ive cut up plenty.so its very unlikely the manufacturer spent the extra cost to install an input bearing over an input bushing for a coupling method theyd never sell it for.  Theyd sell the customer a clutched pto belt drive pump for that.. Like what central hydraulic plow setups use.

Your pump input shaft bushing wont live long running belt tension. MAYBE you have enough meat on the face plate to machine for a bearing and seal, if there isnt enough room to build a jackshaft coupler?  


Take two pillow blocks and face opposite each other.  One sheet of steel plate and a bearing on each side is about the most compact stub drive you can build.  The bearings in the center..  pulley on the one end and lovejoy on the other.  About a 3.5 to 5" long shaft overall.  Even a single bearing stub shaft would help keep side thrust off the pump shaft alot.  

How much stickout length does the pump input have?  
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Offline Ben Cut-wright

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Re: Hydraulic experts help needed.
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2018, 07:43:01 PM »

You should determine the GPM and pressure rating of this used unknown pump as well. Those specs are needed to select drive HP and ratings sufficient for the work you expect the unit to preform.

Not sure if links to white papers are allowed here, so if you follow the path I describe, Gates has a fairly comprehensive white paper which may answer some questions.  gates.com_under resources select library from the drop down_select white papers from the page that appears_lastly select "how belt drives impact overhung load" from that page. 

Not sure one could expect the PTO shaft is some certain RPM because of diameter.   Dump trucks,  back when, commonly had gear boxes mounted on the transmission. These gear boxes could be had with numerous but fixed output speeds.  The pumps were single stage and some featured fairly high flow rates.

There are too many unknowns to answer as to "how long will  the pump handle side load".  How worn is the pump  now, hard to say.  How much HP has to be transmitted to drive the pump under load?  V-Belt drive or something more high tech?   Will the pump run continuously under load?  Etc.

What are you gonna use it for? 

Offline Percy

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Re: Hydraulic experts help needed.
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2018, 09:40:13 PM »
After scraping off a ton of rubberized undercoating I discovered a “Williams Machine and tool model 800” tag. After much research I determined it was meant for intermittent use. I was going to use it to power a couple of chain driven rollcases. I’ve switched plans to a fairly large power steering pump. We will see how that goes 🤓🤓
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