Timber Harvester Chain Drive Upgrade

tylerltr450 · December 12, 2018, 03:21:46 PM

Everyone I wanted to post here since no one has posted about converting their Timber Harvester to a chain drive system from a cable. I am currently working on this project with the help of Brad_S.

First off I want to say that this isn't a complicated project it just takes a little bit of thinking before starting. What you need is

1 - 1in bore weldable hub with key-way
1- 16 tooth 50 chain sprocket
2 - idle sprockets 50 chain
3 - 10ft 50 chain
2 - 5/8 1.5in bolts
4 - 5/8 washers
2 - 5/8 nuts
1 - 7/16 3in bolt
2 - 7/16 washers
1 - 7/16 nut
1 - 3/16 1.5in wide flat steel
1 - med size hub puller

Once you pulled the sprocket you need to weld the hub and sprocket together. Then put the sprocket and the hub on the motor shaft and bolt it back together. Don't forget the set screws!

Since the cable drive timber harvester runs counter clockwise you have to mount the idler sprockets hight then the bottom of the motor sprocket to keep contact at all times.
I used the stock mounting point for the chassis bracket to keep the head on the mill. I then put 2 washers between the sprocket and the flat steel and it mounts up perfectly.

I then drilled a hole next to the mounting plate for the head hold down.

This is a image of the motor with the chain wrapped under it.

After I cut the chain to the length i wanted i attached it to the original eye bolts with cable and clamps. Please note this is temporary I am still working on on a solution for this.

When I tested it like this I figured out that I need to move the bolt back since I am unable to hit the stops on the mill. I was able to flip the mounting bracket to get me an inch closer. However it still isn't good enough.

What I plan to do next is drill a hole to mount a link in and mount it with the spring back on the mill and it should be good enough to get the job done.

Finally I had to flip the mounting plate for travel
I had to grind of the welds that hold the set screw ends on and beat the rod out of the holders. I did leave one side welded on for ease of assembly.

I was able to get it back together and see how much of a gap I have to deal with

Here is an above shot of the gap

I will need to find / make spacers and buy longer bolts for the hold down but for right now I am happy with it working and running.

Video Links
Timber Harvester Chain Drive Upgrade - YouTube
Timber Harvester Chain Drive Upgrade 2 - YouTube
Timber Harvester Chain Drive Upgrade Slow to Fast - YouTube
Timber Harvester Chain Drive Upgrade Quick Run - YouTube

I know this is a very simple write up but in reality it didnt take me that long to do and I will be great to not have to fight with cables again. If you would like more info please PM me.

tylerltr450 · December 13, 2018, 06:18:34 PM

A video of the sawmill running on the chain drive.

Timber Harvester Doing Work - YouTube

longer video of cutting the whole log with the chain drive.
Timber Harvester Log Processing - YouTube

Slim Johnson · February 04, 2019, 10:38:00 PM

Awesome upgrade!! I have been considering how to do exactly this since I purchased one of these mills a few weeks ago. Nice to see someone has already done it.

tylerltr450 · February 05, 2019, 08:01:34 AM

Slim I have been using this upgrade and it love it the mill runs so much better than the cable drive. One thing I might consider doing is reversing the flow of hydraulics to the pump so I can then run the chain more like the standard way TH used. The issue is when the mill head is all the back near the operator the eye bolt bent due to the way the chain rides up over the sprocket instead of under.

Also I would probably get a lighter chain 50 chain is very heavy and probably over kill for the application, I ordered 60 chain and I sent it back for a refund because that stuff is huge!

All in all the upgrade is very easy to do and I dont see why anyone with a little know how cant make it work.

esteadle · February 05, 2019, 08:17:15 PM

> One thing I might consider doing is reversing the flow of hydraulics to the pump so I can then run the chain more like the standard way TH used.

I was going to ask you if you had already tried that, or maybe ruled it out. Those hardlines will move, but I've knocked mine around a bit and they're getting bent, and I keep having to torque them down a more than I'm comfortable with to get them to stop dripping ;-)

> Also I would probably get a lighter chain 50 chain

I have the factory chain drive and it's 40 roller chain. 15 years in it's stretched all to heck, and I've snapped it a couple times and had to mend it with a link here and a link there, out in the field.

It will jump off when I'm touchy with the return. It can be a pain to re-string and get back to sawing, so if you can find a good way to disconnect and reconnect, or a quick tensioner... that would be better than the original.

Maybe a cam-lever / hinged thing, with a bolt that can be finely adjusted thru a couple inches of throw to give adjustment to the tension. Maybe secured with a single bolt... Kinda like vice-grips work maybe?

Could also just use 2 L brackets back to back and a long bolt between them. Weld one to the frame rail, and attach the other to the chain somehow. But that seems like it'll wear out over time.

Woodpecker52 · February 05, 2019, 11:20:11 PM

That is cool a drive system run by hydraulic motor and the chain drive system is so much a better system than cable. Nice engineering!

tylerltr450 · February 06, 2019, 08:11:58 AM

Quote from: esteadle on February 05, 2019, 08:17:15 PM
> One thing I might consider doing is reversing the flow of hydraulics to the pump so I can then run the chain more like the standard way TH used.

I was going to ask you if you had already tried that, or maybe ruled it out. Those hardlines will move, but I've knocked mine around a bit and they're getting bent, and I keep having to torque them down a more than I'm comfortable with to get them to stop dripping ;-)

> Also I would probably get a lighter chain 50 chain

I have the factory chain drive and it's 40 roller chain. 15 years in it's stretched all to heck, and I've snapped it a couple times and had to mend it with a link here and a link there, out in the field.

It will jump off when I'm touchy with the return. It can be a pain to re-string and get back to sawing, so if you can find a good way to disconnect and reconnect, or a quick tensioner... that would be better than the original.

Maybe a cam-lever / hinged thing, with a bolt that can be finely adjusted thru a couple inches of throw to give adjustment to the tension. Maybe secured with a single bolt... Kinda like vice-grips work maybe?

Could also just use 2 L brackets back to back and a long bolt between them. Weld one to the frame rail, and attach the other to the chain somehow. But that seems like it'll wear out over time.

Esteadle,
The problem with the hard lines is that I didnt want to have to make new ones or worry about kinking the line, maybe in the future I will try to run new lines and getting a flaring tool, that is the reason I didn't worry about reversing the flow. I also did consider trying to reverse the field at the hydraulic valve but never got there yet.
for the system to get the tension on the chain I found that what I have now works, the spring on the back end of the mill is still there but I have now added spacers for the bolt near the front and that is able to give me room to tighten the chain without breaking my ___. I found trying to pull 25ft of 50 chain isnt an easy task but with the bolt and spacers its doable by myself.

tylerltr450 · February 06, 2019, 08:12:49 AM

Quote from: Woodpecker52 on February 05, 2019, 11:20:11 PM
That is cool a drive system run by hydraulic motor and the chain drive system is so much a better system than cable. Nice engineering!

Thanks brad S was a huge help, plus I like to try and achieve the impossible since TH said you cant add chain to a cable system.

tylerltr450 · February 06, 2019, 08:28:34 AM

Here is the system I have been using for a little bit and it works great but I need a better long to solution. Its just been to darn cold out to even want to go outside.

As you can see the eye bolt is bent now but it works.

<b

r>

Tin Horse · February 06, 2019, 12:16:59 PM

I've been following this thread with interest and a few questions. The upgrade looks great and well done. My Enercraft has very much an identical system but is still cable. I assumed this cable looped on the hub was designed this way to allow slippage if the saw head hits something or even debris on the track. It does work well in that sense. However I've put a heavier cable on it and tensioned it up some. It does work but I often see slippage ( and wear) on the hub. Especially when going through heavier logs. The feed slows or occasionally stops. I can reach over and grab the cable, lift a bit and it goes.
I realize this is wearing excessively on the hub.
So is your upgrade for strictly this and or for the board drag back feature? What also happens if the head touches something on the track? Does the chain drive stop?
Great photos.

tylerltr450 · February 06, 2019, 12:22:34 PM

Quote from: Tin Horse on February 06, 2019, 12:16:59 PM
I've been following this thread with interest and a few questions. The upgrade looks great and well done. My Enercraft has very much an identical system but is still cable. I assumed this cable looped on the hub was designed this way to allow slippage if the saw head hits something or even debris on the track. It does work well in that sense. However I've put a heavier cable on it and tensioned it up some. It does work but I often see slippage ( and wear) on the hub. Especially when going through heavier logs. The feed slows or occasionally stops. I can reach over and grab the cable, lift a bit and it goes.
I realize this is wearing excessively on the hub.
So is your upgrade for strictly this and or for the board drag back feature? What also happens if the head touches something on the track? Does the chain drive stop?
Great photos.

Tin Horse the hydraulic system once reaches the end of the track will stop moving forward because it reached/exceeded the torque rating of the system. So what happens is the the system will bypass some flow to avoid issues of the mill wanting to drive off the track.
I was having the same issues as you with the cable and having to pull up on it to go anywhere and that is why I jumped and just pulled the trigger on the cable drive upgrade. Please note my mileage may vary since a Timber Harvester is a different mill with many different hydraulic components.

Tin Horse · February 06, 2019, 01:21:55 PM

Quote from: tylerltr450 on February 06, 2019, 12:22:34 PM
Quote from: Tin Horse on February 06, 2019, 12:16:59 PM
I've been following this thread with interest and a few questions. The upgrade looks great and well done. My Enercraft has very much an identical system but is still cable. I assumed this cable looped on the hub was designed this way to allow slippage if the saw head hits something or even debris on the track. It does work well in that sense. However I've put a heavier cable on it and tensioned it up some. It does work but I often see slippage ( and wear) on the hub. Especially when going through heavier logs. The feed slows or occasionally stops. I can reach over and grab the cable, lift a bit and it goes.
I realize this is wearing excessively on the hub.
So is your upgrade for strictly this and or for the board drag back feature? What also happens if the head touches something on the track? Does the chain drive stop?
Great photos.
Tin Horse the hydraulic system once reaches the end of the track will stop moving forward because it reached/exceeded the torque rating of the system. So what happens is the the system will bypass some flow to avoid issues of the mill wanting to drive off the track.
I was having the same issues as you with the cable and having to pull up on it to go anywhere and that is why I jumped and just pulled the trigger on the cable drive upgrade. Please note my mileage may vary since a Timber Harvester is a different mill with many different hydraulic components.

Thanks for the reply. So if the head moving forward hits say a 1/2" piece of bark on the track will it stop or bump over?
Thanks again; Mike.

Racerx94 · February 06, 2019, 07:50:37 PM

Quote from: tylerltr450 on February 06, 2019, 08:28:34 AM
Here is the system I have been using for a little bit and it works great but I need a better long to solution. Its just been to darn cold out to even want to go outside.

As you can see the eye bolt is bent now but it works.

<b

r>

Get a long 1/2 bolt cut the head off and drill a hole though it near the end and use a master link to connect the chain to the bolt. we use them to connect the drive chain to slide gates. May have to grind flats where you drill the hole for the master link to fit.

tylerltr450 · February 07, 2019, 07:59:19 AM

Racerx94 I know that is what I need to do however I just haven't had the chance to get a bolt and do all the work to it. the problem is I am still afraid the bolt will bend.

Tin I am not sure since my carriage has scrapers to clear the objects in front of the rollers.

Remle · February 07, 2019, 09:49:12 AM

Looks good, but IMHO , it would be wiser to reverse the chain at the drive motor, eliminate the lt idler and lower the rt idler wheel run the chain over the top of the drive pulley. That will do two things, it will eliminate debris being drawn in under the drive, between the wheel and chain. It will also make the end connection straighter eliminating the bent connection if the idle gear is at the same level as the end point, put the tension adjusting bolt at the far end of the chain. Again, just my random thoughts.
PS: That's how a certain Orange machine does it..

tylerltr450 · February 07, 2019, 10:24:24 AM

Quote from: Remle on February 07, 2019, 09:49:12 AM
Looks good, but IMHO , it would be wiser to reverse the chain at the drive motor, eliminate the lt idler and lower the rt idler wheel run the chain over the top of the drive pulley. That will do two things, it will eliminate debris being drawn in under the drive, between the wheel and chain. It will also make the end connection straighter eliminating the bent connection if the idle gear is at the same level as the end point, put the tension adjusting bolt at the far end of the chain. Again, just my random thoughts.
PS: That's how a certain Orange machine does it..

Remle In order to reverse the chain i need to reverse the motor and hyrdo flow which is where I ran into the issue. The hard lines are bent in a way that I was afraid I would kink a line. I plan to switch the chain like how TH originally had it to keep everything level so I don't run into issues with bending the bolts on the end. TH has 2 tension adjustments which I plan to install back having the springs on both ends really helps with lurching and quality of the cut so nothing binds up.

I figured that the first try at this only took me 2 hours to switch from cable to chain so I cant complain, it helped me get the cut job done in a pinch.

Racerx94 · February 07, 2019, 06:29:21 PM

Quote from: tylerltr450 on February 07, 2019, 07:59:19 AM
Racerx94 I know that is what I need to do however I just haven't had the chance to get a bolt and do all the work to it. the problem is I am still afraid the bolt will bend.

Tin I am not sure since my carriage has scrapers to clear the objects in front of the rollers.

Instead of the solid spacers use a heavy duty compression spring with washers and a lock nut, it will allow the bolt to pivot slightly.

jrsloan1 · January 22, 2022, 11:32:54 AM

No one has been on this thread in about 3 years now, but I'm thinking about doing a chain upgrade on my Timber Harvester also. If I don't get any reply's, I'll try to start a new conversation.

I have another issue I would like input in also. But first, I recently spent a few days in the hospital, no not COVID that would be too easy. While there with absolutely nothing to do, I spent a lot of time on FF reading and time thinking about upgrades. Some of the time I think I was hallucinating too!!

My first issue is the carriage lift gets cattiewhompus. (Technical term) I can adjust it and after several hundred BF it's back, but it's only at the very bottom, lowest couple of inches. I did have to replace the gear drive a couple years ago, and that's when it started. When I returned home I climbed on top of the mill and it seems one of the drive shaft end (sprocket) is 1/8" closer to the idler sprockets leading to the back corners of the carriage. Should this make that much of an issue? I can adjust all that, had just never thought about it. ( I adjusted the shaft to be parallel to the frame which must be off a little).

I want to get that corrected and then convert to chain drive. So, it'll be a slow process on the chain drive. Now some questions/comments. It seems 40 chain was the factory size, I'll probably use that. The thread said he used a (I believe) 16 tooth drive sprocket. Would more teeth slow down the drive or speed it up? I seem to have plenty of speed in my variable control but sometimes want to go fairly slow. Comments?

I plan to reverse the hydraulic flow so I can run the chain over the top of the drive sprocket and use only one idler set a little lower on the back side of the carriage (away from blade end). Both of my cable ends are spring loaded and I plan to flip the mounts , fabricate a long bolt of the correct size and connect with a master link (reminds me of bicycle work when we were kids) I'll reuse the springs to provide a little cushion and keep tension on the chain.

To reverse the flow the plan is to cut the vertical tubes a few inches from the drive motor and use compression fittings to reattach. That should allow room to work and not require new tubes. Of course the short ends could be replaced and I can flare if needed, just don't like flaring.

Since I don't plan on moving my mill. The carriage bolt down for travel isn't an issue. It can be modified if I need to, but as long as everything clears on the travel we should be fine.

I think I'll slot the mounting holes in the new bracket for the idler. That should help with final adjustments, and when I get it all set and working well, can add a tab on the back side to prevent " oh crap I flipped the carriage off"!!!!

That's basically it. I welcome all comments/ concerns. Really looking forward to see if anyone has ideas/ procedure/comments on the cattiewhompus carriage issue.

Thanks to all the FF users. I've learned more that I'll ever be able to contribute. This group, all held together by .......TREES ....could have more knowledge on more subjects than any other group in the world!!!

tylerltr450 · January 24, 2022, 02:05:26 PM

Quote from: jrsloan1 on January 22, 2022, 11:32:54 AM
I want to get that corrected and then convert to chain drive. So, it'll be a slow process on the chain drive. Now some questions/comments. It seems 40 chain was the factory size, I'll probably use that. The thread said he used a (I believe) 16 tooth drive sprocket. Would more teeth slow down the drive or speed it up? I seem to have plenty of speed in my variable control but sometimes want to go fairly slow. Comments?

16th tooth was easy to find and fit the build to fit under the mount plate. You are limited room so find what works for you and run with it. Do you need to do 40 no I would say you can go lighter since the chain is very heavy to work with.