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Stelite    tipped insert teeth

Started by D._Frederick, July 15, 2002, 11:08:17 AM

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D._Frederick

I am surpriced that you guys running the big circler mills are still swaging and filing by hand.  My Dad had a No. 2 American mill with insert teeth we used up to the early sixties. We had know way to clean logs, so every 2 or 3 hours would require swaging and filing to get a new corner on the teeth.  We switched over to the stelite tipped teeth and could run 2 days before they needed sharpening. We made a grinder run by a B & S  1 !/2 hp engine and a flex shaft and could sharpen teeth in 20 min.

Jeff

I have tried the chrome teeth. I hated them. The extra time it takes to get an edge on them aint worth it in my book. I can swadge my 54 inch 52 tooth saw in less then 5 minutes. Generally I can sharpen with the jockey grinder in 2. I usually only swage a set of teeth once, rarely twice. I rin quit e often 2 days without sharpening when we are sawing aspen. That can be from between 50 and 60 thousand feet.

That reminds me. I was going to do a little video swaging. I will try to remember next time I need to swage to have Tammy bring in the camera. I swaged today, so it will probably be a while before I do again knock on wood.

If I was down 20 minutes to sharpen 5 times a week we are talking 5000 board feet in just down time to sharpen.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ron Wenrich

Stelite is carbide, right?  $3/tooth and wiped out as soon as you hit a nail or rock.  Wouldn't last a week for me.

I used to use chrome.  Industry standard, so I was told.  Nails wiped them out as well, but only at $1.25/tooth.  I didn't get that much extra wear, since I was banging them up when I hit trash.  The chrome seems to make the teeth a bit more brittle.  Instead of curling the tooth, it would wipe out the corners.  

I went back to regular steel teeth a couple years ago.  Only $.80/tooth.  It was more cost effective.  

I rarely swage.  On the softer woods, I sometimes need a hair wider tooth due to the fuzzies.  I may swage once or twice during a set of teeth.  In oak, ash and hickory, I can saw without swaging.

I sharpen twice a day, unless the debarker man decides to leave on bark or I hit the above mentioned trash.  I sharpen during lunch, and either after work or before work.  No downtime.

It takes me about 5 minutes or less to hand file a 46 tooth B pattern saw.  Saw speed is 690 RPM.  

I do use chrome on the vertical edger.  They seem to hold up a little better.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

D._Frederick

Hey, Thanks for the reply.
Stelite is a meltable alloy that is softer than either chrome or carbite. It is built up on the tooth then ground to shape. At the Wood Tech Show this spring,  They had NCN machinary that was tipping and grinding to shape stelite on a 4inch band for a resaw.
It took my Dad at least a 1/2 hr to do to 20 some teeth on the 46 inch Simmon that we had on the American. It had a 32 inch top saw, put never used it much.
Will be interested in see the vidoe on sharpening.

Corley5

Can you sharpen Stellite with a standard file or stone or does it require diamonds?
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

D._Frederick

Corley5,
A file will not touch Stellite, it can be ground with a aluninum oxide wheel. It has a Rockwell C hardness  in the high sixties if my memmory is correct.

Bro. Noble

How about chrome teeth?  I was under the impression that you could swage and file them.  We have been told that a lot of scragg mills use them rather than carbide.  Since you can't put lead in the saws,  you have to have a wide kerf.  We use extra wide carbide (Grind with diamond) teeth and discard them after they are ground back to about standard tooth width.  Being able to swage the inside corner of the teeth would help.

Noble
milking and logging and sawing and milking

D._Frederick

Noble,
Chrome is plated on so it is just a few thousands thick. Swaging will cause the chrome to break off from the base metal of the tooth.  You should sharpen it like you are doing with your carbite tipped teeth.

Ron Wenrich

You can swage IKS brand of teeth.  Their chrome isn't quite as heavy.  But, it isn't as easy as swaging regular steel.

Do you swage your saw teeth on the corners?  All I ever got was thin corners that were more apt to break off.  I swage from the center, to push the metal out.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Jeff

I swage the corners. Never had a problem. (till you hit the next nail)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

D._Frederick

Chrome Teeth-
It is interesting that you can swage chrome teeth.  You are moving the softer metal of the tooth when you swage, the chrome will not stretch, so I would expect it to crack, is this  what is happening? Have you looked at the tooth with a magifier lens to see how intact the chrome is after swaging?

Sawyerfortyish

I tryed carbide only got a couple hours out of them I don't have a debarker. I went back to the reg steel bits The carbides are to brittle and the corners chip off. Like Ron said a little dirt in the bark and it's all over .If I hit any trash in the log the steel bits are easier and faster to fix

Ron Wenrich

I've never really checked the chrome that much.  I don't swage a great deal.  Instead of trying to repair a tooth, I'll replace it.  It is more time efficient and cost effective.

I only use the chrome on the vertical edger.  It seems to hold up a little better there than on the head saw.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Sawyerfortyish

I have carbides in my edger and have run them over a year now I think it's time to have them retipped. what kind of edgers do you guys run ? I have a Horizontal Cornell 6x42 with 3 blades

Jeff

Vertical 3 blade, CMC. Sits right in front of me. Laser sited. I am not sure what size the blades are, never had to replace one on this edger, but I can peel a 5.5 in cant from the side of a log if I had to \, and routinely cut 3.5 or full 4 inch when cutting 4 by 4s. They will open to 17 inches between the bottm 2 blades and the top saw is fixed at 3.5 inches
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Bro. Noble

We have a Corley 3 saw horizontal edger.  It's probably as old as I am. but in better shape.

Noble
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Ron Wenrich

I'm running a Morbark of Canada vertical edger.  It has 2 saws and can open up about 24".  I'm running 22" saws, which means I can cut 8" depth.  We needed the depth for splitting 9x14 into 2 ties.

I have cut to a depth of 4" in oak with both saws.  I use it quite a bit to reduce the size of slabs so they fit in the chipper better.  Also handy on those oversized logs.

We also have an Edminston horizontal for backup.  It is used to upgrade boards and catch those mistakes before they get to the buyer.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Sawyerfortyish

Always wanted to put in a vertical edger would save a lot of time and second handeling. Once you have them in alignment do they require much adjustment. If the head saw starts to run in or out is it much trouble? Had a man in a saw shop tell me they require constant adjustment. :-/ I never put one in because up untill a few mounths ago I ran everything on diesel no 3 phase power now I have a small genset 75 kva.  8)How big are the moters on a vertical edger?

Jeff

We are running 75 horse on the vertical. They require NO adjustments once set up. You make the head rig saw right, you never adjust the edger to work with a saw thats not cutting right. The only adjustments I have ever had to make on the edger is when I rebuilt it. I had to rest the scale pointers.

Ther are actually no adjustments on the edger other then sliding the frame in or out from the headsaw line of cut, and to plumb the arbor.

If your saw is leading in or out, adjust the headsaw. Wow, I know that saw shop could not have been talking about the set up we use, thats just not right.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Sawyerfortyish

Wow 75 hp  guess i'll have to stay with my horizonal edger. My genset might run that alone. They wanted 12grand to run 3phase in here and a min 500.00 usage a month. Made a mistake when I set this mill up should have put in a large genset instead of a diesel on each piece of equipment.

Jeff

You have to remember that our vertical edger is large, it can edge cants out of the side of a log. If you were simply using the edger for boards up to 8 quarter it would take considerably less power.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ron Wenrich

I used to adjust the vertical edger, when we first got it.  That's because I didn't know any better.  It seemed that the poplar would cut out, and the oak would cut in.  So, I make minor adjustments when filing the saw or with the saw guides.

We have made some adjustments for plumb, and lead on the edger.  It only took me about a year to convince them that their edger was leading in.  I was told it was plumb.  I said no matter, it wasn't sawing right.  Put some lead in and it sawed straight.  

I hardly ever fool with the lead on the headsaw.  If it ain't cutting right, usually it isn't the lead.  A lot of times it is in the filing.  I will take some lead off when sawing frozen wood.

The vertical edger will tell you if you are feeding too fast, or if your saw is dull.  It will either mark the next board, or the edging strips will still be attached to the board.  Your margin of error is probably about 1/8".  They make you a better sawyer.

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Jeff

Good point. A vertical edger is an instant indicator on how the head saw is running. Saw leads in and the boards may hang together, saw leading out and the edger will leave lines on the next face.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Corley5

Three blade horizontal edger.  Shop built somewhere in the UP many years.  I know it's way older than I am ;D
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

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