Official MS261CM vs 550XP test

[teakwood]

I don't see why you guys say you would not run a 20" bar on the 261. I am super happy with my 261. It is the best saw I have ever run.

You misunderstood us. We don't say you can't run a 20" on a 261. Heck you can run a 24" if you want, the saw will always cut.
But a 20" makes a 50cc saw point heavy, out of balance, so the saw don't handles that well as if it would be balanced.
I use my 260 with a .325" 18" bar and for me it's the absolute limit length wise, 16" would be better. and even with the 18" the saw has not enough force to bury the whole length in the cut. The 50cc was getting to slow for my growing teaktrees. If the tree is over 10" the 260 bogged down to much and i couldn't stand the cutting speed. so i upgraded to the 361, muffler moded. Dang do i love that saw! Still light but a whole other animal than the 260

I use 18" 3/8" on the 361 which i find perfect for this 60cc saw, powerful and light weight, super balanced.
On the new 462, 70cc,(when i finally can buy one) i will go definitively with a 20" ES light bar.

[trapper]

Didnt get the 261 back yet but took my 241 to test a chain I just sharpened.
74 degrees and buried the 16 inch bar cutting a 20 inch ash.  Made 3 cuts and shut the saw off.  Tried starting the saw and it started first pull every time.

[realzed]

Willard - since it was just a bit over a year ago that this thread started up and also since that time the discussion here has diverged since then into many different topics and areas, many with nothing at all to do with the original subject - the 261 verses 550.
I was wondering if you would care to return to the original intent of it and give us some of your final or at least current up to this point impressions of the 261C-M (and 550XP) both of which you were going to put up against each other longer term and give us all some feedback on your thoughts about each and how they finally stacked up? 
I assume you have had by now, ample time to really part a lot of bark and get down and dirty with each and I'm of course really interested in your take on the MTronic version and how you view Stihl's M Tronic technology as displayed in the newest version II model verses Husky's.. in addition to any other facets of usefulness and/or convenience each saw may bring to the table for prospective buyers.
Thanks - Randy  

[DelawhereJoe]

I think HolmenTree sold his 550xp this past winter, ending the Official 261 vs 550 test. Now its just the 261 vs the trees.

[HolmenTree]

That is correct Joe  :D
Randy realzed,
As Joe said I sold the 550XP to a very happy utility linesmen who is a fire wood cutter on the weekends.
If I was to summarize the over all test ...I had 2 of the best 50cc professional grade saws ever built. Period.
Now I never had a chance to test the MS261CM in our cold Canadian winters as I no longer log and I don't run my tree service in the winter.

But I still think the comparison standard still stands over the last 40 years......the Husqvarna XP saws are the best cold weather winter saws and no one makes a better hot weather summer saw then Stihl.

I have three 550XP saws (576XP AT before that) for the last 10 or more years that flawlessly run in down to 50 below wind chill with winter pre heater kits installed, up on a stage with up to 60 (mostly novice) competitors in a speed cutting competition. Auto tune does its job even at those severe temps, they get set down and idle perfect waiting for the next competitor.

The MS261CM is very user friendly with a master control switch that does not need the switch to be reset to fast idle after doing a cold start with the choke.
550XP does need the fast idle manually set after a choke cold start plus it usually needs the fast idle to be set when doing a hot start.
Husqvarna always did that. Back in the day the Husqvarna 162 or 266 etc. had the separate fast idle knob in the rear handle, separate choke slide  plus a 3rd on off toggle switch.
Now the Jonsereds 630 670 which are basically rebadged red and black Husqvarna 162 266 had the on off toggle switch but had the choke and fast idle mode incorporated in a single slide switch.

Now to compare these two saws to a professional job they were designed for on the world wide market. Pulp cutting.
In Sweden the land of endless conifer spruce and pine forests the 550XP with its hyper quick Rev Boost acceleration would dominate in softwood pulpwood production limbing these small diameter closely spaced limbs and the capability to run well in snowy freezing conditions.

The Stihl MS261CM with it's strong torquey powerband and slightly higher h.p. would do excellent in hardwood pulpwood production as limbing in hardwood is more like "continually bucking" through thick stems and crotches close to the log.  
But don't let my Husqvarna "best winter saw " comment distract you. The MS261CM VW with electronically heated carb and handles is now available in Canada.

So there you go for the time being.
Saw design technology is always rapidly evolving, Husqvarna is making their own chain now and from reports it is good chain. Stihl always made good chain as long as I remember.
On both 550XP and MS261 CM whether its 16" 18" or 20" run 7 tooth .325 rim sprockets with either chisel or semi chisel .325 chain filed with a 3/16" file.
You'll have a fully functional all round saw  in biggest and the smallest diameter wood they can handle.

[weimedog]

I would be curious to hear you explain the differences between the Husqvarna Autotune technology vs. Stihl's M-Tronic, for example what software handles are available one vs. the other, and things like the frequency & duration they do their "lean out" testing...etc. Memory and how much & what particular info is stored for how long. All things related. And how easy are they for the techs to hook up to down load history and update firmware one vs. the other. And how far back in years or models can update be retro'ed...when did the first 50cc M-tronic saw come out in that class vs. the 550xp? A bit of history from the other side would be of interest. I'm quite familiar with the Husqvarna side of that discussion but haven't spent a lot of time on the M-tronics.. Bottom line for me on these two is there are a lot of folks using them and like all things there are those who favor one over the other for a variety of reasons...but at this point both are excellent saws. Only going to get better as time in the field works its way back to the engineering from both companies.

[teakwood]

Why don't you explain that part from the husky side? We know you're a husky guy and have vast knowledge of them. So i think it would be interesting for people to hear about the upgrades in the auto tune. What has been improved on the 550xp? 

[weimedog]

Kind of want to hear it from the resident experts (of which I am NOT and don't claim to be on those two brands collectively. ) where a point by point comparison can be made with actual experience & knowledge with both. Hence the question. But I do understand the system concepts and characteristics because of a prior life. I really can't do that side by side comparison as I have a "one sided" knowledge set. Which is why out of curiosity I'm asking the expert.. AND BTW the most meaningful 550 upgrade actually is the carb kits and fuel line update to go along with a firmware update. A great reason to have a good relationship with your Husqvarna dealer. I have three EXCELLENT dealers within driving distance so don't have to worry about knowledge with CST or support for the same.

To START a discussion how about a generic overview & begin an outline definition of the parameters for a discussion related to these systems:
I will say that a typical autotune system is a fairly simplistic system where it uses throttle position, carb temperature and rpms as data to alter fuel mixture based on system parameters. For the Husqvarna system the three "special" conditions focused on are "start", idle, and under load which Husqvarna calls "tuning mode".

On the starting "mode" as soon as there are a few rotations from stop, pull starting, there is a calculation real time based on parameters to decide a fuel mixture setting to enhance easy starts. Of course this is where many "fight" as the "choke" is a manual device that isn't a part of the autotune system.. Why more that three pulls on a healthy saw with the choke on means flooding..

Idle Mode. Based on the throttle position sensor , autotune systems adjust ignition timing and then fuel supply to get a smooth idle, ever hear those come down a "step down" from a higher idle to the steady slower idle?

Load defined by throttle position or "Tuning mode" for Husqvarna's. Higher throttle openings, load is assumed, the tuning mode is an iteration where periodically ( How often? question number one... ) the system restricts the fuel for a short time ( Time for test? question number two ) and based on the change in RPM's subsequently adds or subtracts fuel to get that saw in that particular situation to a higher RPM, or maximum power. Say hypothetically the test cycle is 6 RPM's done at some pre defined frequency...and as the fuel is restricted, the saw picks up RPM's...that means the saw was too rich, so the system subsequently closes the fuel valve for a little longer during its "open - close" cycle until the NEXT test. How it defines fuel supply is that cyclical opening and closing for periods of time of a effectively solenoid operated or "magnetic" fuel valve in the carburetor. If that saw reduces RPM's during the test, the system defines that as a lean condition and will adjust the fuel valve to open for a longer period of time...adding more fuel to the mixture. This process is going on constantly while the saw is running, an iterative process always testing and adjusting to get max RPM's; and why these systems can cover up issues like dirty air filters, different fuels, altitude etc.  Questions number three ultimately is how quickly the system can adapt as the system "speed" and characteristics will effect things like the time or RPM length of the test required to get desired results. Memory, how much history data can be stored locally. Just basics system questions like any other are going to be part of the saw discussion over time...and is interesting to me.

Just like a comparison of mechanical design, these cyber space characteristics more and more effect the power characteristics and reliability of a saw. Like compression ratio's and port layout,  Autotune "hardware" speed & characteristics promote the speed and accuracy of this test cycle there for how a saw runs within its physical limitations.  SO of course one vs. the other on particular saws is the same as comparing weight, rpms, power etc as now its all interrelated. When they evolve, as they most certainly will, conversations about accessibility, aftermarket enhancements, and eventually the change to "efi "will certainly follow just as with all the other motorsports.

Firmware? Essentially the way a to alter how the system react to input.. AND I might add is one of the "value adds" to the current Husqvarna versions as they are constantly tweaking firmware as more and more real experience in gained. They are pretty good at what they do and also a way to update older saws with those systems.

Some of the earlier "Autotune" systems such as with the 576's and 441c's what came with the saw is what it had, no "firmware" adjustments to use existing systems possible..you would have to litterally change the carb and ignition to get later itterations. A closed system. The current Husqvarna more open system allow "firmware" updates to reach back to the earliest versions, on 562's even the defamed el44's can be made to run better; and have. To get an idea of the information available with the systems, ALL of which is essentially available on the 550's therefore relevant to this comparison; I have to reference a YouTube video:

Husqvarna CST (Common Service Tool) Evaluating Husqvarna 562xp and Jonsered cs2258 Chainsaws - YouTube

[weimedog]

One thing I do know is the Husqvarna "system" from saw to CST is an excellent, well thought out and now mature concept and I really appreciate what it brings to the table for Husqvarna saw owners through their dealers. AND Husqvarna is not standing still on this. I doubt Stihl is either. Which is why a discussion of this entire cabal is relevant almost necessary when comparing these new saws from either company. When there is a "break down" in the system, its just as catastrophic as a mechanical blow up. I like the 550xp's don't know a thing about the new Stihl's DO know the 441c's are essentially the same era technology as the 576's....So where does the 261 fit into this technology time frame? Your turn.

[HolmenTree]

Kind of want to hear it from the resident experts (of which I am NOT and don't claim to be on those two brands collectively. ) where a point by point comparison can be made with actual experience & knowledge with both. Hence the question. But I do understand the system concepts and characteristics because of a prior life. I really can't do that side by side comparison as I have a "one sided" knowledge set. Which is why out of curiosity I'm asking the expert..

Husqvarna CST (Common Service Tool) Evaluating Husqvarna 562xp and Jonsered cs2258 Chainsaws - YouTube

Weimedog,
I'm sorry this is as far as I can quote into your long post. :D
I skimmed a bit further into it but it only seems like you were copying off a Husqvarna service manual and spitting out random information. :
If I need (which I usually don't) to know the deep technical information I want concise easy to follow info from a factory design engineer or field engineer who I'm working the saw for.
In the 40 some odd years I've been making a living with a chainsaw I have on one particular date spoken for hours to a engineer who designed the Stihl 038 he came from the factory in Germany just to talk to me.
He didn't meet me to talk about the intake velocity or ignition timing on the saw. He wanted to share hands on operation with the saw on the logging site in minus -30 below F temperatures. I gave him what he needed to know and take back with him to the laboratory.
Engineers from product research and development need to constantly know what the end user is getting out of their product and how it can be improved.
Like the video you made of the 572XP Spike 60 received, I got pretty excited with wow the guys got the first hand feel for the new generation saw in the forest!
But I'm sorry to say there was so much void of any report I was  certain anything that really stuck out about the saw while operating it could have bit you in the butt and you guys wouldn't even have noticed it
Anyways back to regular programming.....

[weimedog]

So hopefully more will add to the discussion. I don't have a service manual right now but have gone to training so that's pretty much memory & "seat of the pants" but I would assume the service manual would say something similar...at least I hope it would! Other wise I would be way off and the training would have been a waste of time. So basically your post says you have nothing to offer relative to this...and that's fine, but also would expect the concepts to be "random information" to a person who's focus & understanding is simply the end results which ultimately is most important I guess. The second thing you imply is since it doesn't matter to you, it shouldn't matter to anyone else! But I suspect there are a few who do know a LOT more about this subject here than I can offer. And the point I would like to make is as time goes on, this subject of the controls and components will become more and more relevant as they are a major factor in serviceability and simply how the saw runs. But I was hoping you at least could let us know what the basics are for the 261's vs. take the "defensive" response. This thread is about the 550 vs 261 right? While it may not matter to you, it does to me. And since I'm about learning, I don't want a "spat" with you, I want to know and get the real info from those who do know. A similar concept as with many other specifications. Do they (the 261's) have the same generation controls? I think I've heard Stihl has a very similar setup but simply don't know. Why I asked. And how can you compare saws without addressing this, is the second point. A major part of life with these machines.

[HolmenTree]

Walter weimedog, yes taking the "defensive response" seems to revolve in a rotation from both sides doesn't it? ;)

Myself as a professional chainsaw end user my primary focus is making a living removing trees for customers in a urban residential worksite.
My focus is to safely and efficiently remove any type of tree in the shortest time frame and make a profit without damaging someone else's property.
Thanks to a past life as a 5 day a week cut and skid piecework hand faller, I learned the basics on how to maintain and operate a chainsaw  keeping the repetitive flow of  timber into the landing.

Like the other day when going to a new job my diesel pickup had a hiccup,  the engine light came on and the automatic transmission started shifting weird. So I went to my Dodge dealer and after a hour they successfully reprogrammed and upgraded the transmission with a laptop computer and some very expensive attachments.
I'm back moments later cutting wood.....I expect guys like you and your Husqvarna dealer friend Spike60 to do the same for my saw should it have a hiccup.  

You do what you do best and I'll do what I do best. In the real world outside of the internet we need each other to make a living.
Rather then rambling on trying to decipher each others posts on a chainsaw forum I prefer the hands on approach to settle any issues.

I did that approach through this "Official MS261CM vs 550XP test" with a year in hands on report operating them sharing their differences and stirring up some conversation.

Now to change the channel and hopefully soon we'll have the "Official MS462CM vs 572XP test".

I can't wait to get the MS462 in my hands whether it's a CM or non CM and comparing it to my MS261

Also comparing the 572XP to my older 562XP.
Lots of things to see and do.

[HolmenTree]

Hot off the press yesterday.
Randy in Tennessee has a new Stihl MS462CM and Husqvsrna 572XPG sent to him.
Several others shared these videos before me.
70cc 572XPG 15.146 lbs (had a few ounces of oil in it)
72cc 462CM 13.34 lbs.

Husqvarna 572XPG VS Stihl MS462CM Comparison - YouTube

[John Mc]

Looks like the Stihl was about 2 seconds slower than the Husky in that video, but his technique varied a bit from cut to cut, and it could just as well be a difference in chains.

[HolmenTree]

Yes cookie cutting really  proves nothing but does show  the saws in action in a good sized piece of wood with lots of knots to slow them down.

Here's one more in 12"×12" white pine. I didn't bother timing them but 462 looked faster.
Husqvarna 572XP VS Stihl MS462CM - YouTube

[HolmenTree]

Pouring rain today so in the shop tinkering with my saws.
Replaced the dogs on my MS261 with a smooth bumper I had kicking around for the last 30 or more years.
Beautiful thing about Stihl is they don't redesign a proven design that will fit all their saws in this example a 3003 bar mount.
This bumper came off a 038  from almost 40 years ago.
Fits perfect on the 2017 MS261CM.


 

[teakwood]

The cookie cutting videos are worthless for real day by day work situations in the woods. It doesn't matter if one saw is half a second faster than the other.
What really matters is how a saw feels and handles. the weight is important too. 
So for every person these feelings are different. You have to try which saw and manufacturer you like most.

[John Mc]

The cookie cutting videos are worthless for real day by day work situations in the woods. It doesn't matter if one saw is half a second faster than the other.
What really matters is how a saw feels and handles. the weight is important too.
So for every person these feelings are different. You have to try which saw and manufacturer you like most.

It's certainly not the only criteria on which I'd base a purchasing decision. I have an old neck and upper back injury that is aggravated by using a chainsaw, so the weight and how the saw fits me is critical to me. However, I don;t find cookie cutter videos worthless: it is interesting information. I don' worry about an extra second in the cut if a saw feels good to me, but I'm interested to see if they are at least close.

[HolmenTree]

So true guys...
if 2 saws perform good together in the same log ( easy to see their both sharp pulling nice chips) there is nothing wrong with that.
But too many get hung up on weight of a few ounces. But in this case almost 2 lbs more for the same class of saw will wear you down in a day,  a week, a month, over a year

[barbender]

I don't get why he "dropped out" over the specs of the new saw?

[HolmenTree]

I don't get why he "dropped out" over the specs of the new saw?

You may not know Sawtroll Niko well enough barbender. :laugh:
Maybe this is not the place to say this outside a PM
But he really was good at specifications especially Husqvarna's and Stihl's and what I heard he said he had enough with the same old song and dance with saw talk.
But I really do believe he was disappointed with the outcome from the Husqvarna camp.

[weimedog]

Most here recognize cookie cutting is about orders of magnitude....the wood changes, chains change even if you use the same B&C which wasn't done here. Both saws look and sounded good is the take away for me, either one an awesome new saw...and I heard the typical "step down" to idle the newer Husqvarna Autotunes do on the 572xp. And Specs ..ultimately its what saw feels best new that makes that initial impression that does effect initial sales decisions, and what my customers remind me over and over again is how well those saws work a year or two into the service life that effects subsequent sales. Service is a part of that. Can't see that "life with a saw" with either a online opinion about feel or a YouTube video with a few seconds of cookie time.

My guess? Its about statistics. Each person's review is a sample of a few saws and that person's opinion. That's it. Over the next couple of years these new saw models will pan out positive or negative in the marketplace based on their performance over time. AND there will be vocal advocates for both. Positive and negative. Really looking forward to this next evolution of controls though. While the technology hasn't yet been absorbed by the saw repair community, its just a matter of time, and also will have a huge impact of the service side and reliability side...

( One the focus was weight & possibly ergo's, the other reliability at the expense of weight, an engineering and marketing gamble for both, time will tell which works best in the marketplace )

[Weekend_Sawyer]

 "I like them both, couple of good running saws"

I think that sums it up pretty well.

Jon

[HolmenTree]

That is correct Joe  :D
Randy realzed,
As Joe said I sold the 550XP to a very happy utility linesmen who is a fire wood cutter on the weekends.
If I was to summarize the over all test ...I had 2 of the best 50cc professional grade saws ever built. Period.
Now I never had a chance to test the MS261CM in our cold Canadian winters as I no longer log and I don't run my tree service in the winter.

But I still think the comparison standard still stands over the last 40 years......the Husqvarna XP saws are the best cold weather winter saws and no one makes a better hot weather summer saw then Stihl.

I have three 550XP saws (576XP AT before that) for the last 10 or more years that flawlessly run in down to 50 below wind chill with winter pre heater kits installed, up on a stage with up to 60 (mostly novice) competitors in a speed cutting competition. Auto tune does its job even at those severe temps, they get set down and idle perfect waiting for the next competitor.

The MS261CM is very user friendly with a master control switch that does not need the switch to be reset to fast idle after doing a cold start with the choke.
550XP does need the fast idle manually set after a choke cold start plus it usually needs the fast idle to be set when doing a hot start.
Husqvarna always did that. Back in the day the Husqvarna 162 or 266 etc. had the separate fast idle knob in the rear handle, separate choke slide  plus a 3rd on off toggle switch.
Now the Jonsereds 630 670 which are basically rebadged red and black Husqvarna 162 266 had the on off toggle switch but had the choke and fast idle mode incorporated in a single slide switch.

Now to compare these two saws to a professional job they were designed for on the world wide market. Pulp cutting.
In Sweden the land of endless conifer spruce and pine forests the 550XP with its hyper quick Rev Boost acceleration would dominate in softwood pulpwood production limbing these small diameter closely spaced limbs and the capability to run well in snowy freezing conditions.

The Stihl MS261CM with it's strong torquey powerband and slightly higher h.p. would do excellent in hardwood pulpwood production as limbing in hardwood is more like "continually bucking" through thick stems and crotches close to the log.  
But don't let my Husqvarna "best winter saw " comment distract you. The MS261CM VW with electronically heated carb and handles is now available in Canada.

So there you go for the time being.
Saw design technology is always rapidly evolving, Husqvarna is making their own chain now and from reports it is good chain. Stihl always made good chain as long as I remember.
On both 550XP and MS261 CM whether its 16" 18" or 20" run 7 tooth .325 rim sprockets with either chisel or semi chisel .325 chain filed with a 3/16" file.
You'll have a fully functional all round saw  in biggest and the smallest diameter wood they can handle.

Thought I would repost my "official" final comments from a short time ago.

About all I have to say now is this one year old thread is now pushing 40,000 views , was a great run and thankyou everyone for being involved 8)

[John Mc]

Husqvarna is making their own chain now and from reports it is good chain.

What is Husqvarna's new chain called? I keep meaning to try some, but can't remember the designation.