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splitting a tractor

Started by grouch, August 25, 2017, 01:49:27 PM

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Ox

Cheap sonsuguns.  They should have included the clutch alignment tool with the kit.  It IS a kit after all.  I'd be calling them and asking what gives.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

grouch

I'm going to try just taking measurements of the input shaft and turning an alignment tool, either wood as Larry suggests, or steel like I did for a VW.

Is it necessary to align the splines of both clutches with each other? The PTO shaft and transmission shaft turn independently.
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Ox

If you don't you won't get the tranny to slide back all the way.  You'll likely have to turn the shafts or clutch to get the splines to line up.  I think you could engage the PTO and turn its shaft to make the input shafts turn to help get everything to line up.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Al_Smith

I've got overhead rails in my shop so splitting for me is relatively easy .
A pilot shaft is relatively easy to make .I've used wood,metal they both work .

sandhills

It can be done without but sure is easier with an alignment tool, as ox stated you will have to turn the pto a bit to get everything in line.  I'd check with any local mechanics and see if they'd let you borrow one they may have first, a lot of them will just keep a stub shaft on hand for this, most important IMO is making sure the two halves are level with one another.  I'm sorry I don't have pictures of my stands and the only camera I figured out how to hook up to this computer has been broke for a few years, we got a new digital one last year and all the pics come out blurry, could be the operator error thingy  ::).

Raider Bill

I've used a dowel wrapped with electrical tape to the proper diameter before. Never did a 2 stage like this though.
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grouch

Quote from: Ox on August 31, 2017, 03:27:49 PM
Cheap sonsuguns.  They should have included the clutch alignment tool with the kit.  It IS a kit after all.  I'd be calling them and asking what gives.

I almost started yellin' at 'em. There are 6 little pins -- 3 short, 3 long -- that the various levers push against to compress the springs and release each clutch. The old ones are pretty cruddy looking. Finally found a wad of bright green tape tucked in the corner of the packaging (NW corner of the box in the 3rd photo above) that had the 6 new pins in it.

Will do some cleaning before trying to make an alignment tool.

There is a small inspection plate on the side of the transmission that may allow me to reach in to turn the outer shaft. The PTO shaft runs through the center of that, so I'd have to reach behind the tractor to turn it.


Right now I have that $750 chunk hanging from a $5 ratchet strap about 3.5 feet off the floor over the place where it's gonna go. Ain't I the jeenyus.
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paul case

Quote from: Raider Bill on August 31, 2017, 04:59:51 PM
I've used a dowel wrapped with electrical tape to the proper diameter before. Never did a 2 stage like this though.

I have done this with a 1/2''  socket extension, and it works better than you would think.

It turns out that Raider Bill is the jeenyus!

PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

grouch

Good time to bring this up to date with photos.

Y'all just can't know how much I appreciate the tips, tales, suggestions and encouragement. Thanks a bunch!

Photos:


This is what I was looking at when I started this thread. Seat's off, but that's about it.


Fuel shutoff, fuel line to pump, and 3 lines for the power steering, all in the way.


Instrument panel coming out along with the usual mouse nest. No eviction notice given.


Fuel tank in center, sexy exhaust to the left, and sexier walnut shift knob on the right.


Wiring not as big a mess as it looks.


Two fuel return lines that had to come off.


Under all that stuff, 2 electrical connections to the fuel gauge sender.


Custom sling rigging for removing the fuel tank with maybe 5 gallons left in it.


First glimpse under the fuel tank. 3 empty holes.


4 big banjo fittings for the power steering. I hate banjo fittings.


Throttle and kill linkages.


Hydraulic lift pressure and return lines removed from hydraulic pump.


Power steering pump, right side of engine. Hard line goes back to one of those big banjo fittings.


Power steering reservoir, left side of engine. Hard line goes back to one of those big banjo fittings.
Manual didn't mention these two hard lines hugging the engine at all. It just told about removing the drag link.


I chose to leave the big banjos alone and disconnect this one.


And the one at the power steering pump.


There's the first view of the split, when I came running back in to post about it somewhere back on page 1, I think.


The old clutch cover, pressure plates, and clutch disks.


View from other side, with flash.




Shakey-looking rigging. Don't stand too close.

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Al_Smith

Would that happen to be a Ford Dextra per chance ?

chevytaHOE5674

IIRC its a Long 310 tractor...

grouch

Quote from: Al_Smith on August 31, 2017, 08:51:30 PM
Would that happen to be a Ford Dextra per chance ?

See:

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on August 31, 2017, 09:03:33 PM
IIRC its a Long 310 tractor...

Also, Service manual for Long 260 - 310 Series

It was a licensed copy of a Ford 2000 or 3000. The Ford had a 3 cylinder diesel and this has a 2 cylinder. Long started out in Tarborough, NC, then it went to Romania, then became FarmTrac in Canada, I think, now ... I dunno. The trail got too confusing for me.
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GRANITEstateMP

Wish I could find me a Ford3000, that would run my firewood processor great!  We got a FORD7000 at the farm.  She's a 76', runs like a champ.  Pulls the mixer wagon all summer long (winter rig has a cab!).
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woodmaker

grouch,I did this job only one time,on a B-414 international. Your photos bring back how much of a P.I.T.A. it was.
franklin q80,builtrite 40,husky 372,sachs dolmar 123, dozers,excavators,loaders,tri-axle dump trucks ,autocar tractor with dump,flatbed and detachable trailers, and 8  f350 diesels

grouch

Quote from: woodmaker on September 02, 2017, 09:54:15 PM
grouch,I did this job only one time,on a B-414 international. Your photos bring back how much of a P.I.T.A. it was.

Glad to help bring that back.  :D

I've got most of the area scrubbed up; somebody put some kind of gasket sealer on it where the engine and transmission come together. It's stubborn.

Tried cobbling up an alignment shaft from things laying around and almost had it made from various plastic plumbing fittings and electrical conduit, but couldn't find anything suitable to fit the center of the flywheel. I'm turning a piece of steel rod down to fit and will go from there.
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Al_Smith

I did a Ford Dextra a long time ago for a neighbor .As I recall the double clutch came in aligned already .The job wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be .
Actually the clutch was good but he had a seal leaking,can't remember if it was on the engine or transmission .That was worse  than the clutch which he figured while it was split might as well get-er-done .

grouch

Had a little setback today. I was indulging in some wishful thinking and just about had the clutch, etc., in place and ready to bolt up. The wishful thinking was that it came already "adjusted for planeness" as in Fig. B.1/9 on this page. As I was trying to get one of the 6 little push rods in place, I noticed one lock nut (B2 in that linked illustration) was loose. All 3 lock nuts were easy to spin by finger, so it's not likely that thing came already adjusted.

I'll have to pull it back out and rig up a "universal stand" to make that adjustment.
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Ox

That sucks.  But be grateful you thought of it now and not after you had it all back together again and running it and finding out the clutch kept getting worse and worse...  now that would really suck.

Here's hoping it all goes easy and uneventful from here on out.

If it's any consolation I'm making new brake lines for a 23 year old Cadillac car that has proportioning valves for each rear brake and basically zero room to work under there.  I believe they put in the lines before they put in the rear subframe.  Not my easiest or favoritist...
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

grouch

Thanks Ox.

On those brake lines -- if you're making them instead of buying pre-made, I strongly suggest you get nickel-copper line so it never rusts again.
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sandhills

If it helps any I put one "set" clutch in without checking clearances, once, I'll never make that mistake again, glad you caught it in time.  Not sure about Ford but JD has a tool to set the fingers, you never know who did it at the factory or if was a Saturday morning/Monday morning type job.

Ox

Quote from: grouch on September 06, 2017, 12:19:03 PM
Thanks Ox.

On those brake lines -- if you're making them instead of buying pre-made, I strongly suggest you get nickel-copper line so it never rusts again.
Yep - I've been using copper nickel for around 5 years now.  Everything that needs brake lines gets it.  We have real bad rusting problems from all the salt all winter long here.  Cars don't last long here without constant attention and maintenance.  The only reason this Caddy is still around is because it started its life in California.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

grouch

Ox,

Now if we could just convince Rubbermaid to team up with Fischer-Price to make the rest of the car, cars would last generations.



sandhills,
There's a special tool shown in the service manual, but not much chance of getting that.
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Crusarius

Grouch they already did that. It was called saturn :)

grouch

Crusarius,

That was GM imitating Rubbermaid, and it scared 'em. They went back to rust-o-mobiles.  ;D

Fisher-Price stands up to the loving attention of 2-year-olds and Rubbermaid garbage cans are cared for by Sanitation Engineers. Cars don't get that kind of abuse except in demolition derbies.



(What a thing to yak about for my 1,000th post.)
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Crusarius

I still have a 92 saturn SL2. not a spec of rust anywhere on the body panels :)

Actually I don't think GM was scared I think the market was not ready for it. Same thing as the Aluminum bodied vehicles.

There are many opinions on that but I am all for aluminum. It really is a better material all around.

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