Gas engine powered planer?

[medic1289]

Ok, I'm pretty sure this should work.  I'm pretty sure it's been done.

I can't find any reference to it here.

So,,,,,,,I picked up for a silly low price at auction a Belsaw 9123, 12" planer.
Not expecting the planer to go so cheap, I didn't buy the motor which they sold first.  :-\

I'm thinking of setting it up with a horizontal shaft gas engine, making it portable-ish to move around the yard and such.

What size gas engine should I be scrounging? I think it had a 3hp electric, but aren't gas "horses" different than elec. "horses"?

Thanks for any input, I'll take "educated" guesses as well as actual experience, more weight given to the latter of course!

[shinnlinger]

I think you want a third more HP gas vs electric and would say a 5-6 horse gas would work because that is max HP but they would rather put out a third to half less than max.  The good news too is that shouldn't be a hard engine to find but wonder if you want to deal with a governor for it or not.

Good luck!

[Al_Smith]

Although people like to argue the fact conventional wisdom says to double the HP rating if going from electric to gasoline .

Rather than all that fooling around why not just install another electric motor ? Geeze you'll have all that fiddling around ,the danged thing won't want to start .You'll run out of gas right when you need it .The thing will drive to deaf listening to it and not to mention what to do with the exhaust .Besides electric is pennys per hour and gas often hits 4 bucks a gallon .

[Paul_H]

Here is video of a 4 sided planer powered by a 350 chev engine that we had in Pemberton and ran a lot of T&G through,both 3/4 inch and 1 1/2.The optimum shaft speed happened to be 30 mph on the speedo and it gave us 12 knife marks per inch if I remember right,

http://youtu.be/RlEOIUvQjTk

[Dave Shepard]

How many miles did you get on a set of blades?

[shelbycharger400]

wow... who was operating the camera 

That seems to be way bigger than you need for a dust blower!

[medic1289]

Paul,  Thanks for posted that video, that is one interesting setup!

Anywho, mines gonna be a much smaller operation, a might more portable!

Was thinking of a tiller-sized engine, although I don't recall if ours is governed or not which would seem to be almost a necessity?

Wanting it to be portable rules out electric for this adventure; I don't have 600 yds of power cord!! Our tiller starts every spring on a pull or 3 and I always manage to have a supply of gas for the LT30.  Exhaust won't be an  issue outside and the dirt here could use mulch so the shavings would just get scattered.

Any body off hand know the rpm range of a small 4-cycle? Wondering pulley size to start with.

Was thinking of "clutching" it on the order of my mill, using the weight of the engine in drive and lifting it to disengage?

OK, that's alot of questions, just hoping someones already done this!

[Paul_H]

Any body off hand know the rpm range of a small 4-cycle? quote]

32-3400 rpm would be about right for most small 4 strokes.

wow... who was operating the camera 

Me at the beginning and then my wife filmed me at the infeed and Bob at the outfeed

That seems to be way bigger than you need for a dust blower!

There was a huge pile of chips that was big enough for the kids to play on before Bob's brother hauled it away as bedding for the calves on their farm.A good blower is important to carry the chips away to prevent tearing of the board surface.

How many miles did you get on a set of blades?

:D I never kept track.The knives are 3/8" thick by 2.5 or 3" x 16" if I remember right.

[54Dutchman]

Most small gas engines max. out thier RPM @ 2100 to 2200; under load 1800 to 2000 RPM would be a better number.  Tweaking the engine may give you more unloaded RPM but you would be outside the best torque part of the torque curve. :P

[Al_Smith]

Most Briggs engines are governed at 3600 RPM .

If you for example look at the torque curve for Wisconsin V4 rated at 30 HP at I think 3000 RPM as the speed drops so does the power rating .Now granted it's a larger engine than a one cylinder Briggs but the same principle  applies .

In the case of that old Chevy 350 it can probabley crank out maybe 250 -300 SAE HP gross (old rating system ) at 6,000 depending  but at 30 MPH speedo at maybe 1200 rpm if that probabley less than 50 hp .

Say a Ford in line 6 ,300 cu inch .Great industrial engine .In a truck upwards of 150 HP depending but in a brush chipper at lower RPM's maybe 85- 90 HP .

[ALWOL]

   All of the small  Kohler engines are governed at 3600 rpm also. I think that 3600rpm is standard speed for all four stroke small gas engines. Also, all small four stroke engines that I know of have a governor.
   I run my planer with a JD 70 Diesel tractor and flat belt. Works great.

    Alan

[medic1289]

Thanks for the input guys.  Looks like this project could fly!

Thinking I'll keep an eye out for a minimum 5 hp engine, 7-10 preferable.
I was hoping most if not all 4-strokes were governed too.  Going by the rpm range mentioned, it shouldn't be to hard to estmate pulley size, might even have to try to use some math.  ;)

[sawguy21]

I always figured 5 hp gas to equal the torque of a 1 hp electric meaning you would need 15 hp to power your planer. The electric motor likely turned 3450 rpm so a gas engine governed at 3600 would work just fine.
For your application, I agree with Al, wow that's a first. :D As long as you have 240VAC the electric will be a lot nicer.

[Al_Smith]

I'd like to see a JD 70 on a planer .You get those two bangers on a big load they can really bark loud .

I once had my JD 70 gasser ( 424 cubic inch displacement )on a big "Red River Special " threshing machine blowing about a foot of fire out the straight stack with two idiots double forking wheat sheeves in the machine like they didn't have the sense God gave a goose .

That was about all the poor old JD could handle .Those big seperators were designed to run on about 40-50 HP of steam not 35 HP of gasoline on the belt .

[Al_Smith]

John Deeres aside you have options .One could be a generator to run an electric motor .

It would take a fair sized generator but they make some fair sized PTO driven machines that might be landed  reasonabley priced at times  .You'd have portabilty plus a generator plus the option of using power from the utility company in case you wanted to use the planer inside a building at some later time .

[ALWOL]

   Al, what did you do to your 70 to get 424 ci out of it? I have often thought about stroking some of mine, but they sure run good the way they are.
   Here is a pic of the 70D on a 30" planer. It'll sure hog off a lot of material in one pass.


 

   Medic, you should be fine with an 8hp Briggs or Kohler. They are easy to find and very cheap, at least around here.


     Alan

[Al_Smith]

Sorry typo it's really 412. 6 1/8" bore 7 inch stroke .The Diesel is 376 cu in .6 1/8" bore by 6 3/8" stroke .

Interesting as there were three .The third a straight gasser was 5 7/8" by 7 .Diesel on the belt 50 HP ,gasser 43 and like mine all fuel model 40.9 max power .

FWIW they made after market "power blocks " which had things cast in the block to raise the compression .The A's used a 720 gasser piston and the G's used a 6 3/4" piston evidently from a model D .If they made them for a model 70 I can't really say as I've never seen one  so equipted .

What might be done to a diesel I can't really say .

[Al_Smith]

Say I found something interesting which shows how power is figured and why it can be misleading .Citing both the Nebraska tests plus a copy of "Motor " circa 1979 which I just happen to own along with about  two dozen more .

Max torque for a JD 70 all fuel is 265 Ft pounds at 759 RPM .which the diesel would be higher but not listed .

Max torque for a 1979 170 HP Chevy 350 with a 4 bbl carb is taken at 2400 RPM and is 270 Ft Lbs .

[Knute]

I have a Belsaw 12" planer and just replaced the engine with a B&S 11 HP. 5" three belt  pulley on engine. Works very well.

[medic1289]

I have a Belsaw 12" planer and just replaced the engine with a B&S 11 HP. 5" three belt  pulley on engine. Works very well.

Hey now, THAT'S what I wanted to hear!  Glad to hear it's workin good, cuz that's just about what I was gonna try.  Thanks for doin my homework!

Where abouts this grand state are you?

Thanks for the reply.

[Al_Smith]

An 8 or 11 HP Briggs is also an easy engine to find .If you don't try to hot rod them with too heavy of a governer spring they are really long lived .

People seem to like to brag up Hondas and  Kohlers which are good engines no doubt but an old iron cylinder Briggs can do just as well and a sight cheaper .

[Knute]

Sorry for the late reply. Havn't been to this site for awhile. I'm 8 miles west of Poynette along Wis. River. If it would help, I could try a picture. Haven't ever tried posting a picture yet.

[mobile demensia]

Let us know how this project works for you. I have done a bit of research on the web and not come across much info. I have an old parks 12" that I was going to power with a 6 horse lister diesel. Planning on putting it on a trailer to tow around the farm.

[DaleK]

My Amish friend runs one in his mill with a 6.5 hp Honda clone. He's never had any trouble with it.

[Happycamper]

The Briggs is at max. torque at 2600 to 2800 rpm. The 6.5 Honda clone made in you know where
is a strong performer and w/ luck they are $75 to $99 on sale in Canada anyway. Put one on my splitter and it runs circles around the 9 Briggs I had on it.
                                       Jim