Pup trailers, yeah or nay ?

[BargeMonkey]

Another guy I know bought a diff truck and trailer, has had this one a while and wants it gone. I went the other night and looked it over, it's an older trailer but on hub pilot. I've never had one behind my truck, I think it will be handy sometimes, I have a 45ft log trailer but forget it on most of my jobs. wondering if any of you guys like them ? this one is on the longer side.  

 

[jwilly3879]

See them all the time here in the Adirondacks. Most of our jobs you can't get a tractor trailer into.

The guy that hauls our wood usually runs 13 cords of hemlock or 7500+ feet of pine logs.

He's pretty long but gets it to the landing a twisted mile of road in the woods.



Here's a video with a better look at the rig.

SAM 0501 - YouTube

The pup almost exactly with the truck tires.

[BargeMonkey]

 The guy who hauls my pulp to Finch is out of Day NY, he just bought a beautiful new truck at Tracy, northern spec'ed log trucks aren't cheap. I've never had a trailer behind my Sterling period, the plate was swapped off the R-model and I've debated it for a while, I'm hauling my own wood now to 2 diff mills since I quick selling to Wagner, just wondering how guys like them. I've got a Manac flat deck trailer with stakes we bought for moving pipe down at the dam job, being a spread axle and so long forget it on most of my jobs. 

[Skeans1]

You guys need to look at the mule trains or Aussie style trailers that can be loaded up for turning around on the job sites, once you go that route you'll never go back.

[2308500]

pup trailers we run here in nova scotia are mostly shorter. usually under 30 feet from hitch to tail with 2 bunks for 8 or 10 foot end to end or standard sawlogs.   air ride suspension make for a better ride with a lot less roll than spring suspension.
the lower you hitch is the better it pulls on the highway, but it can hamper manoeuvering in the rough sites.  24 to 30 inch hitch height seems to be a good compromise althought ours are at 40 inches. the difference is in the amount of sway at speed on secondary roads

we run 5 inch ball hitch for a no slack coupling and alot less wear than a pintle style hitch

[BargeMonkey]

 I've been toying with the idea for a while, they don't exist here used and if you see one it's been beat to death. I mainly want one for the firewood, I don't have the HP for a pup in the Mts where I live to load her right to the gills, Wagner would leave with 6800-7300 ft all the time with a wagon. 

[starmac]

I pulled one this winter. You may be all right with the weight of the loader on there dragging it in, but it will still drag the tires on pavement when empty. I had to load mine, I tried to drag it and would spin out even chained up with a locker, it is just a no go here. Our pups are different in that we run spreads with a turntable on the front axle, they can go about anywhere you can go with just the tractor.
As long as it takes to make a round we have to pull a trailer, or it would be money ahead to just leave the logs laying in the woods. That was the first time I pulled a pup though, as I am generally hauling long logs. My long logger was rigged up to pull a pup, but where we log there is no way you can pull the hills without spinning out, dragging a long log trailer and a pup, just not enough driver weight.

[Matt601]

I have never seen this kind of trailer this would be great for me to have to put another 15 to 20 tons of saw logs with. Im going to look in to having the shop here that builds trailers build one for me.  Thanks for the pics. 

[Gary_C]

I've got a Manac flat deck trailer with stakes we bought for moving pipe down at the dam job, being a spread axle and so long forget it on most of my jobs.

Do you have a dump valve on that rear axle?

I run a 48 foot spread and having that dump valve helps a lot. What helps even more is to put a third lift axle in front of that front spread and then dump the bags on the rear axle on tight turns.

[starmac]

Even if I could negotiate the curves to where we log with the spread, and I can except for the last 5 miles, I would still not have enough weight on the drives to get there consistantly, especially when the trailer doesn't stay in the trucks when the snow gets deep on the edges of the road, which is most of the winter, you have to be pulled out loaded anytime the trailer gets in the berm. Then if it would work, trying to talk the loggers into building a turn around would be next to impossible. With the pup, you can load it on the truck when empty and go and turn around anywhere the truck is capable of going without a trailer. That is with a spread that the front axle steers on, That closed tandem pup will not stay as close to the trucks tracks, and will require some wider turns.

[Riwaka]

Might want to add  an extra steer axle up the fron of the truck in post 1.
Australian Kennedy folding quad  (4 axle) trailer on twin steer Kenworth T659 tandem drive.  Tend to go for the twin steer to get more weight into the truck base.  (There is also the tri-tri  folding B double with a shorter wheel 5th wheel haul truck for flatter terrain)
Central tire inflation

Extreme Truckers go logging in a Kenworth T659 8x4 fitted with AIR-CTI - YouTube

This one's or one similar's yard  is not too far from where my sister works. Kenworth self loader lifts four axle trailer onto itself. (cab over twin steer)
NZ Kenworth K200 log truck lifting 4 axle trailer on - YouTube

[Skeans1]

Here's one style of mule train a half loaded one
loading our short log(mule train) trailer ez grade - YouTube
Here's one getting unloaded
Stafford Reload Cut-To-Length (Sweet Home, Oregon) - YouTube
Here's a place I get all my long logger gear from truck can carry 26 to 27 tons with our turkey hay rack.
Extended Bodies
The other two way are fully loaded showed there on that website or hopped up which is just the front axle of the pup on the back of the truck.

 

 

[mike_belben]

How do you keep from tearing up the brake chambers and hoses on stackers like that?

[Skeans1]

How do you keep from tearing up the brake chambers and hoses on stackers like that?

The tires just ride down the bunk, in the 60+ years of having trucks we've never tore off a can from loading or unloading a trailer now a pulp log is a different story.

[mike_belben]

So the axle housing sits on the framerails and the cans are mounted on the high side?  

[Corley5]

In Michigan you're not hauling wood if you don't have a pup ;) ;D

[Bruno of NH]

I'm not a logger or truck driver but my father in law I was good friends with.
Never went any place without his pup trailer said it was hauling a 1/2 of load without it

[Resonator]

Before buying, it would be a good idea to measure the trailer and overall combination length, hitched to the truck you'll pull it with. Check the axle spacing and how it will bridge the load, scale it out empty if possible too.

[starmac]

Mike, on my long log trailer the trailer tires sit on a ride built on the bunk itself. You pick it up high enough and the bunk slips right between the tandems, so that even In a wreck the trailer can not go forward or backwards, the ride where the tires sit, (only the inside tires) has some ears so it cant slide sideways, unless you bounce the whole thing several inches. The reach sits in a notch in the headache rack, I am not even required to tie it down here.

The pup is different, the reach still sits in the notch, but the front inside tires sits in a ride , and the rear has a bracket on the trailer in front of the steer axle that sits on a cross piece we put across the frame or the rear bunk on the truck, this holds the cans up away from the truck frame. I do have to tie the back of the pup down.

[mike_belben]

Some foreign terminology here.  

Reach = the trailer tongue tube?  

Ride = a saddle for the inners to sit in? 


I have never seen a pup log rig here and am surprised by it because i think it would be a good setup for some of our sites.  The commercial plantations have real roads and pulp runs off the mountain on 48ft tandem log trailers to bowater or rocktenn.  Pitt is the majority and they tend to have 8 posts, taller at front and shorter at back. 

The hillbilly logging is small lots done with knuckleboom and 4 poster straight truck.  From 1ton SA to class 8 tandem. 

I see both of these setups any time  i leave home,  many of them.   But never ever a 4poster hauling a tag.  I wonder if it wont bridge right.  My plan was 4 posts on my w900A [if i can ever get it here] rear prentice, then 4 post backhoe trailer behind it. 

[starmac]

You got the terminology right reaches come in single and two stage. I have a single stage 28 footer in mine, but could use a two stage 32 footer.

Different states have different bridge laws may be why you don't see many pups there, I think you guys can use lift axles on trucks though, where we can't. Our bridge laws are funny too, the short pups have to have a long tongue to bridge the weight.

[mike_belben]

Youll see lift axle on local dumps but if im not mistaken they do not count on the interstate.   Im told 74k is max on a straight tri axle.  Could be wrong.

[barbender]

Lots of different styles of "pups" on here. In Northern MN, a "pup" us pulled behind a straight truck with a rear mount loader. Axles on the pup are "wagon" style, the front axle steers. I don't know if the steering has an air lock on it. They're not very common, the guys that use them are custom haulers that have to get into a lot of bad spots. I've never driven one, but I'm told they can go anywhere and turn around, where a pickup can. I've had centermounts (the most common wood hauler up here) in some really tight spots, so I'd like to see what a truck and pup can do.

[redneckman]

I live in western NC.  Here, most most loggers use tandem trucks because of the places they are hauling out of.  We use separate loaders (not mounted on the hauling truck frame) When I was growing up I worked on my uncles crew.  It was not uncommon to be miles from the pavement in the mountains, on dozered roads that was hard for a pickup to make the turns.  There was no way a tractor and trailer could have gotten into the places that we did.  Back then, his tuck was a 70's GMC 9500 long nose.  It had a 8v71 in it and was a stout sunitch.  Twice, it rug a solid drive saft into coming out of holes loaded.  I loved the sound of that old Jimmy.

However, there was some times that he would land a job when a tractor trailer would be nice.  He eventually bought a 80's Mack with a 300+ engine.  He put a brand new Pitts log trailer behind it.  He used it as his primary hauler for about a year until he quickly found out that the set up was just not practical where he was hauling from.  So, he put a bed on the truck, a drop axle off the rear, and bought a pulp trailer.  The one he used was a design like someone else mentioned; two axles spread apart about 10'.  The front axle and tongue pivoted together, and the tongue was about 8' long.  Brakes on both axles.  This was the best of both worlds.  He could use the pulp when he had the space or could get it to the loader.  Loaded, he could haul more on the truck / pulp set up than he could on the tractor / trailer.  I do not see as many of these around now.  I always thought it was a good set up.

[coxy]

barge buy the wagon type they don't put a lot if any weight on the truck frame  like the pup trailer  ya they are a pita to back up but i have watched some of the guys turn the picker around and lift the pup/wagon off the ground to turn them around easer  you know who I'm talking about