Metal In Walnut

davemartin88 · October 26, 2009, 03:42:41 PM

Cutting walnut for a customer in Annapolis, MD on Sunday- butt log full of metal. He gave up after 3 blades- remaining logs were great so he did end up with a lot of wood. These were well inside the log, log was over 36" at the base so it was a monster, really hated to see it go to waste. Piece in the picture on the right is about a 3/8" oval, any ideas what these might have been, they were at a spot that would have been about 40-50 years ago?

Brad_S. · October 26, 2009, 04:24:08 PM

Metal in a walnut tree. Imagine that. :D

I don't know what it is about walnut trees, but they just seem to attract nails. I'll bet I hit metal in the butt log of better than a quarter of the walnut trees I sawed in my career. Then too, I did specialize in urban and yard trees.

Larry · October 26, 2009, 04:33:01 PM

Fence staples...lota times you can work around them or cut the bottom 4' off the log.

ely · October 26, 2009, 04:41:23 PM

maybe a ring to tie a horse up to.
i also went thru 3 bands in one walnut tree last fri.
i am unsure that walnut can grow without metal in the tree.

to top it of this walnut was not very big at all. made a few 1x6 is the biggest it made.

Toolman · October 26, 2009, 04:51:52 PM

I hate when that happens! I quess we all do. Is that a large staple? Like they used to nail fence wire with. I've been having bad luck with Cherry trees lately in urban areas. I recently was cutting a nice cherry log when all of a sudden I heard that familiar sound that we all dread. As I was sending the blade through that sound repeated itself about every 16" right to the end. Turns out years ago somebody nailed boards into tree with 16pennys . Those boards were used as a ladder to climb into the treehouse that was probably bult up above. Customer bought a new sawblade that day. We counted 33 nails that I cut through in one cut. I turned the log and with a fresh blade we approached from opposite side hoping to at least get lumber from 2/3 of the log. I found 16 more while attempting to cut a slab.

It was time to give that one up! Poor guy bought the property and did'nt know the history of it. Funny thing, there were no purple or orange stains on the butt of the log that indicated any sign of metal in the wood.

Don K · October 26, 2009, 07:04:33 PM

I've always heard from the old folk that people used to drive nails and spikes into walnut and pecan trees because the iron would make them produce better. I heard also that they would throw a handful of rusty nails into a planting hole for nut trees.

Don

nb_foresttech · October 26, 2009, 07:25:35 PM

Has anyone tried a metal detector? Seems like it might be an option for these nice logs.

backwoods sawyer · October 26, 2009, 07:43:45 PM

Quote from: Don K on October 26, 2009, 07:04:33 PM
I've always heard from the old folk that people used to drive nails and spikes into walnut and pecan trees because the iron would make them produce better. I heard also that they would throw a handful of rusty nails into a planting hole for nut trees.

Don

It sure would be nice if they would put all the nails in the ground rather then in the truck of the tree.

Quote from: nb_foresttech on October 26, 2009, 07:25:35 PM
Has anyone tried a metal detector? Seems like it might be an option for these nice logs.

The tic-tic-tic-tic of the saw tells you right where the metal is. Detecting the metal is not the problem, cutting around it can be, even with a metal detector.

Quote from: Brad_S. on October 26, 2009, 04:24:08 PM
Metal in a walnut tree. Imagine that. :D

I don't know what it is about walnut trees, but they just seem to attract nails. I'll bet I hit metal in the butt log of better than a quarter of the walnut trees I sawed in my career. Then too, I did specialize in urban and yard trees.

Around here, it seems to be the Walnut and Oak that attract the most nails. I like the thick bark of the redwood because it is hard to nail something to the tree and it grows so fast that it will push a birdhouse that has been nailed to it off in just a couple of years.

davemartin88 · October 27, 2009, 07:11:21 AM

Quote from: nb_foresttech on October 26, 2009, 07:25:35 PM
Has anyone tried a metal detector? Seems like it might be an option for these nice logs.

I have a metal detector, called a Wizard, I think that cost about $100 a couple of years back. Only scans an inch or two and we did use it to find and mark some nails on a bracket that was near the outside of the log. The metal in the picture above were at least 6" in to the log, maybe a bit more so no chance to detect them.

solidwoods · October 27, 2009, 07:47:51 AM

[quote author=davemartin88 link=topic=39887.msg573760#msg573760 I have a metal detector, called a Wizard, I think that cost about $100 a couple of years back. Only scans an inch or two and we did use it to find and mark some nails on a bracket that was near the outside of the log. The metal in the picture above were at least 6" in to the log, maybe a bit more so no chance to detect them.
[/quote]

I use the Wizard also. It has a calibration screw on it that allows you to change the strength. Mine will detect metal 8" from the detector.
jim

Kelvin · October 27, 2009, 08:08:53 AM

How thick were the boards you were cutting? If i have a tree that is suspicious i keep scanning with the log wizard after each cut. I've pulled tons of metal out of trees like that without hitting any. Those are good logs as you can get them for free. No problems. I'd take it from you if you were near by. Cut, scan, cut scan. Very simple if you have a helper even better. You can find metal anywhere with the log wizard. just chisel out the metal, check again. Lots of good wood left over. No need for deep scanners that cost $1500, just don't leave them out in the rain. Don't ask me how i know but i have 3 of them now.
KP

BAR · October 27, 2009, 01:21:32 PM

Kelvin,
I'm not familiar with the log Wizard detector so will look them up, but I do have a couple of questions regarding your use of them.
What is the radius of detection or the precision of location? Can you locate within 1" , 6" or what? I've used a RadioShack detector looking for nails 4" deep and can't really tell where the nail is within +/- 4" or so and that leads to a lot of extra chiseling, especially when the metal may be deeper than 4".
Do you have problems with false readings due to surrounding mill metal?
Would you like to part with your rain damaged units?
bar

Fla._Deadheader · October 27, 2009, 03:03:55 PM

Here is how you use a detector. For Cheap machines, it's kind of a crap shoot.

Anyways, IF you get a signal, raise the loop up from the log, slowly, while moving the loop . IF you have excellent hearing, you can tell when the signal is getting very slight. The distance from the bottom of the loop to the log, is APPROX the distance TO the metal.

ALSO, the signal sent from the loop is a cone shape. The deeper the signal goes, the smaller in diameter it gets.

Cheap detectors will go up to 6" deep, in the CENTER of the loop. There are a few new designs with a bar shape signal, so, sweeping side to side get equal depth across the coil.

Headphones are necessary, IF you take the time to use a detector. Better ideas of where the metal is, is why detectors cost more and more.

Most guys don't take the time to LEARN how a detector works, so, they say, "That won't find anything", and, they are right. It's NOT the fault of the machine, however. :

;D

Toolman · October 27, 2009, 05:11:37 PM

Is that the same as "The Wood Wizard"? I believe woodworkers warehouse sells them. Might have to look into one of those. It certainly would save alot of time and damage.

Fla._Deadheader · October 27, 2009, 05:53:48 PM

A Bounty Hunter is the minimum I would look at. Roughly $100.00 or so, last I knew. :

;D

Magicman · October 27, 2009, 06:08:15 PM

I've mentioned this on other threads, but I never use the Wizard, etc. in the presence of the customer. That shifts the responsibility for the metal from the customer to me. It's his metal. I'll let him use the detector, so it's still his responsibility. If/when I find it with the mill, it cost the customer $20.

petefrom bearswamp · October 27, 2009, 06:25:38 PM

I agree wholeheartedly with Magicman.
I have the customer scan his or her logs.
Sawed some big yard E. white pine saturday, the guy asked if he would be responsible for damage due to metal.
Yup.
I handed him my Radio shack detector which works ok and he went over the logs with a fine tooth comb.
Found quite a bit of iron.
He did a good job and i didn't Didn't hit any, but those large knots don't making nice boards easy.

Kelvin · October 27, 2009, 09:44:00 PM

Howdy,
Yeah the lumber wizard is kinda cheap, i find its only good for metal the size of nails a few inches down so i get worried when i saw even 8/4. If i think there are nails i would saw 4/4 and keep checking. they are cheap, and they don't go too deep so the mill doesn't make false positives. If it gets thin i take off and set on some wood to check for metal. The coin type detectors the other guys are talking about are probably more accurate and can scan deeper. I'd sell one of my lumber wizards for $50. Its an older model and more sensitive then the newer ones. It goes off if you bump the log. They were kinda only dewed on and they didn't work too well for awhile but seem to have dried out and function again. If the other detectors work better and are only $100 i'd probably go for one of those myself.
See ya all,
KP